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Problems with DP now.

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by finqoo, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. ravex

    ravex Peon

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    #41
    Just because i look good wearing a tie at work doesn't mean i need to continue wearing a tie when i return home too. So yea, wearing that "tie" all the time is a burden for me and i have the habit of catching a break. Each to their own, no probs. :)

    Anyway, this is going off topic and divert attention away from the original topic at hand (the bigger picture) so it's best to end that sidetracking here i think.
     
    ravex, Aug 9, 2009 IP
  2. Karen May Jones

    Karen May Jones Prominent Member

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    #42
    Maybe they weren't happy, and, trying to spare your feelings, they kept quiet. Or, maybe they forgot! PM them!!
    Repeat sales can be enough to keep a writer busy enough - .
    I don't like to get caught up in the bumping game, my threads have always been pretty dead! But, I swarm the existing threads in hopes to find work. There's a lot of variety that way.
    Are you joking? I go insane when I submit something that has errors in it. For instance, yesterday, I sent an email, then I remembered that I forgot to double check my spelling of the word chauffeur, then I checked afterwards and sure enough Google told me I made a mistake "chauffer". Not a biggy, but there's a thin line....
    Use your siggy to sell links if you aren't having any luck with selling your writing services in it.

    :)
     
    Karen May Jones, Aug 10, 2009 IP
    getjimmy likes this.
  3. theultimate1

    theultimate1 Well-Known Member

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    #43
    This tells a lot (sorry if you find that rude), but it does. We aren't expecting control either, just some consideration; which I believe is literally being discarded without much analysis/thought. Not saying you're being thoughtless, but there are 2 sides of a coin, and the odds of the 2nd one showing up during a toss are just as good (meaning we can't ignore it).

    Thanks :)

    How does it hurt to earn more business though? The newspapers shouldn't be advertising about their popularity/circulation rate if that would even barely be "good enough" for their (or any) business.

    If the siggy isn't working for him, quite frankly it isn't working for others too (or the chances of it working are very less). And, it can't supplement for the missed out income because his writing service isn't probably earning him as much now.
     
    theultimate1, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  4. Karen May Jones

    Karen May Jones Prominent Member

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    #44
    Oh, I never said it hurt to have MORE! In fact, I explained that I often SEEK MORE work in existing threads from new buyers because I've never had inclination to do business by constantly replying in one of my own threads.

    I am a PM kinda gal. I like a variety of work - The bad thing about not replying to threads I'm interested in is that I sometimes forget to manually subscribe - so I do get confused at times :(
    Quite frankly, the siggy thingy will pick up, I basically use my siggy for site-links, and, on occasion, a link to one of my deal threads. So, maybe things will improve now that people are getting accustomed to searching for deals in siggys. :) Something we can look forward to from each other?

    maybe [​IMG]
     
    Karen May Jones, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  5. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #45
    I'm just stating a basic fact that anyone with any business sense will tell you - it's never smart to put your business in the hands of 3rd parties that you have no control over. Believe me, there was plenty of analysis. We'd talked about doing it several times over the last year. Members put themselves in that position when so many chose to disregard the rules. And I really don't think we're forgetting there are two sides. I think some sellers are though. I'm fascinated by how many have said that their opinions essentially represent all sellers here (which they don't if you read all threads and comments), and how they have little regard for the fact that the new setup can be rather preferable to some buyers. No one's disregarding anything. We're just saying that until you've had time to give it a shot and actually adapt it, no one's in a position to say it's not working as a whole. Some people aren't going to do as well, and others will do better. The money's still going to someone, and the fact that it may not be going to the same people who want to operate in the same ways forever under a system that wasn't working as intended is not the whole story.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  6. x.marty.x

    x.marty.x Well-Known Member

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    #46
    You can clearly see the results of this change since it was put into effect.

    Loss of money for everyone and loss of quality for me.

    [​IMG]
     
    x.marty.x, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  7. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #47
    Can you make it 13,778? ;)
     
    yfs1, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  8. noneed

    noneed Active Member

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    #48
    :confused: it's much better at 1k now.
     
    noneed, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  9. i-h8-scammers

    i-h8-scammers Banned

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    #49
    Eventually people will realise to just keep submitting there thread again and again to get exposure resulting in more spam you cant win
     
    i-h8-scammers, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  10. Digital_shubhi

    Digital_shubhi Illustrious Member

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    #50
    And they will end up with a BAN. :D:D

    - Digital -
     
    Digital_shubhi, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  11. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #51
    It's bad business to tell your customers to adapt or get out of business. You're basically telling people "don't make selling or buying at DP important" which while you are right, isn't good for DP because folks might debate the post and poster quality at DP, nearly everyone acknowledges that the marketplace is the jewel in the crown.

    If BST is considered by ownership to be important to the DP reputation and experience, then these moves are not in DP's best interest because the changes only make it harder to connect buyers and sellers by treating all offers the same, regardless of activity. It would be like if Digg didn't organize by votes or what is hot but latest submit date. Who would read Digg and wade through all the crap?

    My experience online has been that if you're not going up, you're going down.

    One more thing. There seems in the case of some folks to treat these discussions as adversarial. Maybe people who have been moderating a long time, and after awhile, outside a narrow circle of friends, all members start to look the same, and most seem like a pain in the ass. Been there. I mod 1 forum, and admin 2 others, 1 of which has 20,000 members. I have been to burnout and back a half dozen times. I know it.

    These criticisms are brought up in the best interest of DP members, which should be assumed to be the best interest of DP (retaining its members and making them happy members of the community). So while not every critique might be valid or useful, people only bother to complain online when they care. Because they can always surf somewhere else if they aren't getting what they need at a particular site. If people can't sell in BST, they will sell elsewhere. Some spammers and scammers may move on too, but throwing the baby out with the bath water doesn't serve anyone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
    guerilla, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  12. Love*

    Love* Well-Known Member

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    #52
    True dat true dat :p


    :)
     
    Love*, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  13. patelsagar

    patelsagar Peon

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    #53
    No, not :)

    The origin of the problem was (and IS) in the lack of enough moderation. And that problem is still there. Though, I am happy to see some new mods, but I don't like to be overly optimistic due to that.

    Spammers need not BUMP now, they just need to make multiple threads, easy job.

    @Staff of DP:
    It's funny to read that this change helped some buyers. They could search for threads in past, they could sort thread by time if they wanted. So, what is done for them after all? :rolleyes:

    But yeah, this is nice trick to increase activity by MAKING members to post more to have better exposure of the signatures. This simply increases page views and clicks, too? :D

    Keep up the good work (for you) :)
     
    patelsagar, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  14. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #54
    Users are not our "customers." DP provides a free tool. People chose to abuse it. Rules changed. Now everyone has to live with the consequences for a while.

    Also, I don't work for DP. It's not my job to tell everyone to come to DP to use the BST section. My position as a moderator will in no way influence me to give bad business advice. As I've said before, anyone who knows anything about being in business will not put all of their eggs in one basket (or too few). They'll diversify, and they'll learn to adapt when the 3rd party systems change. Not everyone considers DP a "jewel" around here. Look at a few of the other recent threads, including posts on the subject from Shawn himself.

    And as we've also already said a few times, no one is saying the changes are permanent. But fear mongering like we've seen here (saying DP's traffic will die b/c of it --Shawn already showed it's increasing instead -- and that "everyone" is losing money -- disproven if people just bother looking at anything but the rants, as others are happy with the changes, and not just moderators -- are perfect examples). When the changes have been around long enough that all aspects can be evaluated, then it might be. But whining about something just because it's not as easy for some sellers (with no regard for those who are getting business through new offers or the buyer side of the spectrum, some of whom prefer it this way) isn't going to help.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  15. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #55

    they are not your customers, but there will be certainly no digitalpoint forums without them ? also it is Extremely Wrong and Unfair to inflict the Death Sentence on all Digitalpoint's members because of the actions of a few.i am not saying that there is no problem, no, bumping threads is a problem, it's extra work for moderators, what i am saying is that your solution is a wrong Solution and is a much worse problem.

    i am speechless, i don't know how to begin describing how wrong this change is, this is even against the concept of having a message board, no discussion ?? after 24 hours the thread is dead ? and all the hundred of thousands of old threads started since 2004 are now all dead ? they will never see the light again ? the majority of users will not get to see the development of threads ? and if there is no discussion can we even call that a thread ? and the Business section of digitalpoint a forum ? classfieds ads would be more appropriate.


    please tell me how that 17 years old kid from Philippine who had a successful thread in digitalpoint and was working 16 hours per day submitting to 5000 directories and entering 5000 captchas untill he couldn't look at the screen anymore because his eyes are hurting, but still managed to make 150 dollars per month thanks to digitalpoint (which is the double of his father's monthly salary) and was saving his family from hunger and helping buy books for his little sister, please tell me now that his thread is dead (no more reviews and no recurring work) how can he adapt ? you would never have even suggested this change if u lived with that guy and thousands of others like him for just 2 days.

    How about a public poll in the general chat section to determine if users are happy or not with those changes ? that would be very democratic and very fair, wanna bet? i'll send you 1000 dollars via paypal if it comes out from the poll that the majority of digitalpoint users are happy with those changes.

    as i said in my other post, i will not try to tell shawn how to run his forum, this is his decision, and i think he is a smart guy, and as a coder, i am sure he can come up with a brilliant solution to the bumping problem; a solution which is not a problem in itself. (time to do some brainstorming shawn :) )
     
    funkymario, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  16. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #56
    I'm fairly certain the post "quality" within BST is the bottom of the barrel.

    BST is not even remotely considered important to the DP reputation or experience. Quite the opposite... BST was created SOLELY to get those crap threads out of the other areas so people don't have to look at them.

    Bottom line is this is not (and never was) a BST forum any more than it's a Politics & Religion forum (both sections spun into their own areas to keep the crap out of the other areas). If you were to sort all the sections by importance, BST would be last, Politics & Religion would be second to last.

    To be honest, I'm not sure what all the complaining and threatening to leave BST is about. It gives everyone the opportunity to use other sites for BST that are clearly more geared/focused towards it. They probably have more options, more tools, etc. for it all...
     
    digitalpoint, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  17. finqoo

    finqoo Well-Known Member

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    #57
    It may well be true that the BST section was created to keep "crap" out of other areas but by looking at where your visitors are browsing seems to suggest that by far the most popular area of the forums at this moment are the BST sections;

    Google (95 Viewing)
    Yahoo (10 Viewing)
    Microsoft (4 Viewing)
    All Other Search Engines (9 Viewing)
    Directories (29 Viewing)
    General Marketing (38 Viewing)
    Search Engine Optimization (40 Viewing)
    Link Development (15 Viewing)
    Pay Per Click Advertising (24 Viewing)
    Affiliate Programs (89 Viewing)
    General Business (40 Viewing)
    Payment Processing (49 Viewing)
    Legal Issues (12 Viewing)
    Domain Names (23 Viewing)
    Copywriting (7 Viewing)
    Buy, Sell or Trade (626 Viewing)
    HTML & Website Design (82 Viewing)
    Graphics & Multimedia (28 Viewing)
    Content Management (59 Viewing)
    Programming (152 Viewing)
    Site & Server Administration (69 Viewing)
    Databases (32 Viewing)
    Keyword Tracker (8 Viewing)
    Co-op Advertising Network (7 Viewing)
    Optigold ISP (3 Viewing)
    All Other Tools (22 Viewing)
    Introductions (1 Viewing)
    General Chat (268 Viewing)
    Reviews (21 Viewing)
    Suggestions & Feedback (2 Viewing)
    The Underground (2 Viewing)

    It seems the BST sections actually gets more interest that the rest of your forum put together, maybe it's time to look again at your business model?
     
    finqoo, Aug 11, 2009 IP
    Love* likes this.
  18. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #58
    There is no business model here. A business model implies trying to make money. We are not trying to gain customers, we aren't trying to sell anything to anyone, we don't do any consulting work, etc.

    And yeah, those stats only makes me want to shut down the BST seeing how much resources those users are taking. There's a resource "cost" for anyone
    (or any thing) looking at the forum. BST users most certainly have the least value overall. The resources they consume (server resources and moderator resources) are being covered by other users. Another perfect example of resources -> gain is MSNBot for MSN & Bing (I've throttled them to be allowed to spider 1 page every 10 seconds at a maximum). The few thousand visitors they were sending per day wasn't worth the resources they were consuming. If I could throttle BST users to 1 page view per minute, I would. :)
     
    digitalpoint, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  19. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #59
    shawn, the BST users are the same users who visit your other sections, most users will look and be interested in different sections of dp, a web designer or coder will participate in the programming, web design sections, then he will go to BST section to participate in a contest or get a programming job maybe, he will then go to the link exchange section to exchange some links, he maybe interested in buying a programming forum in the site sales section, sometimes he will joke around in the general chat section, and other times he will ask for SEO help in the search engine optimization section, and maybe he will even come here to the Suggestions section to complain about a bad new Feature :)

    this change is not punishing just a specific "kind" of users but all digitalpoint members, those 650 Live users who are now in the BST section, are the same users who in about 5 minutes will be spread across other sections.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
    funkymario, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  20. UberBrainChild

    UberBrainChild Banned

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    #60
    Technically they are your customers in a way, i mean they are what drives the ad revenue right? without them there would be no profit for dp.

    I really think that not having threads updating by replies and moving back to the top destroys the "quality check system" that was working fine. If someone offered something and it was bad or weird then a poster would know that and tell everyone else and it would disappear or remain in view if more people have been affected, which is good. also really good services will also get a lot of attention and remain in view. CHANGE IT BACK :p
     
    UberBrainChild, Aug 11, 2009 IP