The Future of Optigold ISP

[digitalpoint]

The Optigold ISP product is going to be redeveloped from scratch, while I'm not particularly looking forward to it, it will let me drop a lot of the legacy stuff, and have better support for things that were not as prevalent when Optigold was first released (broadband, web hosting, usage based billing, etc.)

So what I'm looking for is some input from Optigold users on the general direction of it.

Here are a couple options at this point:

FileMaker Pro 7

It's out now, and does some really nice things. The web server is built into FileMaker Server and the web server is truly multi-threaded. Another nice thing about it is 100% of the Optigold ISP client can be web-enabled without needing to redo anything (basically you can move through Optigold on the web, and it looks exactly like it does in the client). SQL, XML, etc. is also handles by the database server (as it should). It's MUCH faster than FileMaker 5.x/6.0. Allows you to do some other things I always wished FileMaker could do (for example, multiple windows with a unique found set per window... you could have have multiple windows on the Customer Info screen, each with a unique found set).

MySQL + PHP

This is another option I'm looking at. There really is nothing faster than MySQL for a database engine (think about generating 100,000 invoices in a minute). It's also free, and runs on any platform. The drawback to it is it would be 100% web based, so there may be a couple minor things that are not longer possible.

Anyway, let me know what anyone thinks...

[Hein]

My vote is for the PHP / MySQL option.
This is, as clients go, the most platform independent solution to my knowledge.
Filemaker is great, but too many times we heard that Filemaker was the limiting factor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the product, but I think it could go much further in that direction.

Kind regards

Hein

[digitalpoint]

Also, I should point out that if it does go MySQL+PHP, the PHP source code still will not be included (otherwise we have no control of the licensing).

[l0cke]

I am all for a php/mysql based solution. It would be so much easier to intergrate into our surround systems. Having to pull data from Filemaker into Oracle is not my idea of fun. With the direction our company is heading I would basically have to pull 3/4's of the data from OG to Oracle for accounting/reporting/leasing/etc. It would be so much easier to have access via ODBC. I understand FileMaker has made improvments in this area but it will never be as fast as a sql database.

[Hein]

That seems logical :-)
But things like lay-out's of invoice, etc. could be done by the by the end-user, as wished, no?
It's the fact that you could give us some freedom that would be the best part of it, I think.

Regards

Hein

[l0cke]

Also, I should point out that if it does go MySQL+PHP, the PHP source code still will not be included (otherwise we have no control of the licensing).

How would you accomplish this?

[digitalpoint]

That seems logical :-)
But things like lay-out's of invoice, etc. could be done by the by the end-user, as wished, no?
It's the fact that you could give us some freedom that would be the best part of it, I think.
Yes... some things like invoice layouts, reports, etc. would have source code available. But the core functionality and licensing would not have source code.


How would you accomplish this?
Magic. :) Actually with something like:

http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-encoder.php

[rocky]

I think php is best.

[l0cke]

Magic. :) Actually with something like:

http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-encoder.php

Ok, cool. I'm a database guy so as long as I can get at the data I'm happy :)

[digitalpoint]

Yeah... tables would be open (of course).

[nanoburn]

If you switched to MySQL+PHP you'd you've this overweight sysadmin doin backflips and praising you....plain and simple

[donet]

We are all for the mySQL/PHP option! However, I am concerned about a few things...

1) How much will the update cost?
2) Will ALL data in the existing FMP database be imported (historical billing for the past 5 years, and will canceled accounts count against our license??)
3) What happens to existing PC / Web Authorize Credit Card processing
4) Customer 'web interface' setup... A) Can you have a documented template process so we can easily brand the web interface? (For example, you have a stock header.php and footer.php which is enabled by default, but your ‘code’ is put inside a table which we can easily wrap around or B) give us access to the customer, reseller and tech web interface source code so we can modify as we need in order to grow our business?
5) Will the existing ‘picture’ of the database relationship’s be updated so we can ensure that we do not corrupt the new mySQL databases?
6) Will you enable easier sharing of ‘open source’ plug in’s? For example, if we develop something using the PDFlib extensions (available within PHP) will we be able to easily plug it in so that we can have nice looking invoices and service records that could be automatically generated using the PDF libraries and e-mailed to the customers.
7) Will there be plug-in’s for expanding the ticket tracking system, maybe have the customer’s be able to access this data so they can resolve their own issues REPEATE questions?
8) (More of a feature request.. but if it is going to be done from scratch then….)I'd like a way to tag billing items with the date created and the user name of the person who added them and also the date deleted and name of user who deleted them so we could create better sales reports.

Last but not least… do not make it has convoluted as Rodopi … It will have to stay as easy to use as it is now, while still advancing our abilities to customize as much as needed.

We would be more than happy to assist with some beta testing, heck, even alpha testing. You know me… I can give lot’s of feedback ;)

[donet]

Options for OpenSource…

Shawn, I know and can fully understand wanting to maintain licensing. However, I would bet that the majority of your OptiGold ISP customers have dedicated internet access. I would further wager that many of them have the ability to monitor packets on their network. Given these factors, I would even further wager, that we would not be opposed to a ‘call home’ licensing mode that would allow us to have access to the code. Call it an Enterprise License, partner agreement or whatever legal terms will work for you. But PLEASE, PLEASE think about a way to open your source for others to be able to expand our business. Heck, if you have a Partner type agreement, then we, or Mike (OptiSkins) or whoever would be able to make additional items (at no expense to you) to make your product even better, which would in turn allow you to sell more :) It has the potential to be a win win, however, you do have to release some control and trust (both of which could be handled through legal maneuvers). I am sure over the past few years, you know who the customers are that you can trust. If we could work something out, I am positive we would have no plans on leaving and could even sign a long term agreement on the licensing of the source.. think about the re-occurring income ;) All of the major software vendors have some sort of plan like this…. If they don’t there is most likely an open source version that is catching on…

What does everyone else think? Am I off base?

[digitalpoint]

We are all for the mySQL/PHP option! However, I am concerned about a few things...

1) How much will the update cost?
Updates are free for life for all Optigold customers.



2) Will ALL data in the existing FMP database be imported (historical billing for the past 5 years, and will canceled accounts count against our license??)
Of course.



3) What happens to existing PC / Web Authorize Credit Card processing
Not sure to be honest. It may be possible to have support for it by building a PHP "plug-in" for it.



4) Customer 'web interface' setup... A) Can you have a documented template process so we can easily brand the web interface? (For example, you have a stock header.php and footer.php which is enabled by default, but your ‘code’ is put inside a table which we can easily wrap around or B) give us access to the customer, reseller and tech web interface source code so we can modify as we need in order to grow our business?
Yep... and yes, as much source code will be given as possible.



5) Will the existing ‘picture’ of the database relationship’s be updated so we can ensure that we do not corrupt the new mySQL databases?
Yes, such a redevelopment (wether it be FileMaker 7 or MySQL) will have a completely different table structure.



6) Will you enable easier sharing of ‘open source’ plug in’s? For example, if we develop something using the PDFlib extensions (available within PHP) will we be able to easily plug it in so that we can have nice looking invoices and service records that could be automatically generated using the PDF libraries and e-mailed to the customers.
Well, not sure there would be a universal plug-in architecture (since PHP scripts/functions do not have a central architecture). But if it goes that route, we will make heavy use of PDF imaging already.



7) Will there be plug-in’s for expanding the ticket tracking system, maybe have the customer’s be able to access this data so they can resolve their own issues REPEATE questions?
Not sure about a plug-in system, but it would allow additional functionality.



8) (More of a feature request.. but if it is going to be done from scratch then….)I'd like a way to tag billing items with the date created and the user name of the person who added them and also the date deleted and name of user who deleted them so we could create better sales reports.
Noted.



Last but not least… do not make it has convoluted as Rodopi … It will have to stay as easy to use as it is now, while still advancing our abilities to customize as much as needed.

We would be more than happy to assist with some beta testing, heck, even alpha testing. You know me… I can give lot’s of feedback ;)
That's the plan... keep it simple to use, but still have functional complexity on the backend.

[digitalpoint]

Options for OpenSource…

Shawn, I know and can fully understand wanting to maintain licensing. However, I would bet that the majority of your OptiGold ISP customers have dedicated internet access. I would further wager that many of them have the ability to monitor packets on their network. Given these factors, I would even further wager, that we would not be opposed to a ‘call home’ licensing mode that would allow us to have access to the code. Call it an Enterprise License, partner agreement or whatever legal terms will work for you. But PLEASE, PLEASE think about a way to open your source for others to be able to expand our business. Heck, if you have a Partner type agreement, then we, or Mike (OptiSkins) or whoever would be able to make additional items (at no expense to you) to make your product even better, which would in turn allow you to sell more :) It has the potential to be a win win, however, you do have to release some control and trust (both of which could be handled through legal maneuvers). I am sure over the past few years, you know who the customers are that you can trust. If we could work something out, I am positive we would have no plans on leaving and could even sign a long term agreement on the licensing of the source.. think about the re-occurring income ;) All of the major software vendors have some sort of plan like this…. If they don’t there is most likely an open source version that is catching on…

What does everyone else think? Am I off base?

Well considering this is all just theory at this point, it's a bit premature. But yes, I too would like to open source as much as possible. In fact, I would like it to be 100% open source. But from a business standpoint, loosing control of licensing doesn't work. So licensing will not be open source, and probably key underlying functions will be closed source as well (since they would depend on licensing to function).

[ColinR]

:confused: Well considering this is all just theory at this point, it's a bit premature. But yes, I too would like to open source as much as possible. In fact, I would like it to be 100% open source. But from a business standpoint, loosing control of licensing doesn't work. So licensing will not be open source, and probably key underlying functions will be closed source as well (since they would depend on licensing to function).

For small shops starting out under the 100 customer limits are they left behind?

Thanks.

[digitalpoint]

No, there still would be trial versions.

[ColinR]

No, there still would be trial versions.

Fully functional like current version up to 100 licenses right? :)
Here's hoping small shops building their business get the opportuntiy to get at the much needed revenue to grow their business to upgrade. The idea of a fully functional trial version up to 100 is appealing to me and I'm sure countless others who are stumbling onto Digtial and its forums etc.

Great work.

Thanks.

[digitalpoint]

Yes... it would be the same (free for up to 100 customers).

[wmol]

Shawn, my vote goes for the mySQL/PHP route.

[mcolvin]

You mentioned that if you went the MySQL route, some things wouldn't be possible. We can all let our minds wander in regards to what could be possible with a move to MySQL, but what are some of the things that you have already determined we would lose with such a move?

I personally like the idea of moving to MySQL...It will enable us to access the data for other purposes, but I also like the ease of use and most of the features currently present...

Mike

[digitalpoint]

Just some little things would be lost... for example realtime record locking (if a user is editing a customer, other employees can't edit it until they are done). Without that, you could have an two employees editing the same customer, with only the last changes being applied.

[mopacfan]

Will it still be windows compatible? I don't know much about php, only asp.

[digitalpoint]

Yes, you can run PHP on Windows.

[Hein]

Hi Shawn,

Will you start a new "wish" list before starting redevelopment.
There are still some things most of would like to see added and maybe this would be the time to stick all our ideas together to even further improve the package.

Kind regards

Hein

[digitalpoint]

Well, if it's ever been mentioned before, then I probably already know about it.

[Hein]

Understood, but even I know a couple of things that I haven't mentioned before ... :-)
Mainly 'cause we were waiting for Filemaker 7, as most things were banned to that version ;-)

Regards

[digitalpoint]

Well feel free to put them into the Feature Requests (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30) forum.

[Hein]

o.k., but we're going to be thinking of the things we would like / need in combination any system from now on ;-)
So we won't be bothered with the impossibilities of either PHP/MySQL or Filemaker, o.k.

Regards

[Hein]

BTW, added bonus with PHP / MySQL combo ..

Everyone gets their, much hoped for, Linux "client".

[Amnon]

The drawback to it is it would be 100% web based, so there may be a couple minor things that are not longer possible.
Anyway, let me know what anyone thinks...

I am not using the web interface right now, and see no reason to use it in the near future. I need the program to do what it is doing right now, on a windows machine. I guess I can just keep using the last version you will be releasing before going to web-only, for as long as I need, right?

The main reason I never went with the web-based system is because I didn't feel good about having CC details on a machine that is connected to the web all the time.

Amnon
Deltaforce

[digitalpoint]

Well even though it would be web based, there is no reason it would have to be on a public web server. You could run the web server on your local machine if you wanted.

[rpingar]

my little vote is to MySql+PHP

thanks

[Lewis]

Shawn,
I agree that PHP/MySQL seems to be the best way for it to go. What functionality would be lost for certain? I'll probably have another post with more questions and thoughts soon.
Thanks,
Lewis

[SteveM]

Here is another vote for PHP/MySQL

[JenS]

Another for PHP/MySQL :)

[chrisblore]

I vote for PHP/MySQL as well. It seems as though this is the way forward and will provide us with the most flexibility in the future as well as the possibility to better integrate with other software and services. I think that a full integration with CPanel/WHM would be possible if someone wanted to do it :D

[devnull4u]

Add my vote for PHP/MySQL.

[WISENet]

Add my vote for PHP/MySQL

[mcolvin]

How will automated tasks be done in a PHP/MySQL version? I'm assuming some external application that pulls info from MySQL, but just checking.

Mike

[digitalpoint]

For Unix/Mac OS X, probably a single cron job that runs every few minutes that calls a script to see if anything needs to be run. On Windows, probably the same thing, just with the built in scheduler task.

[donet]

Shawn,

Will WebAuthorize work with the new version? (BTW: I got it working after much playing.)

Randy

[digitalpoint]

Don't know at this point...

[paneolo]

I agree with the PHP/mySQL option. Filemaker has just not kept up with the times. The decisions with OG have always come down to it's failings in the area of web interface. I've talked with many peer companies who have chosen other options because of this weakness. Being web enabled is so critical these days.

[Iain_Robertson]

Sounds as though PHP/MySQL is going to be the future for OptiGold. Which I would support much as though I like FileMaker.

If this is the case it would be good to understand, roughly (talking 3, 6 or 12 months), before we see the new version?

[digitalpoint]

There is no timeframe at all...

[abatie]

I've been hoping to get an odbc interface going, but this would be even better! Can we have it yesterday? ;-)

[pstarnes]

Shawn,

First of all, how's it going? Been a long time..was good to finally meet you at WISPCon, hope you got some new customers there, I pushed Optigold the entire time I was there. (never got my commision check though?!?!).

Anyway, my vote is for PHP/MySql. It's just much more mainstream now and would make integration with our setup much tighter and would mean I would have one less server to worry about here.

My problem now is that we are merging with one of our competitors who uses Freeside. They are impressed with the feature set of Optigold but are much to use to having access to the source and have invested heavily in time with customizing the interface.

Their interest in Optigold certainly perked up once I informed them you were considering moving to PHP/MySql though. Do you still not have a rough time frame in mind on the port? With the feature set that Optigold has now, I can imagine this would be a MAJOR undertaking and it's obviously going to take time. We have been an Optigold shop since almost day one..not sure how far back we go, but it has to be since 96 or 97?

Would you be intersted in integrating some CLEC provisionioning systems? I think if you could work with us on integrating some of the features we could use as a CLEC I could convince them to stick with Optigold. Could be a chance for you to expand your market.

On another note, if it doesn't go my way, is our Optigold License transferable?

Pete Starnes
President
NEATO

[rimonline]

My vote is for Mono/MySQL. It's opensource, compiled, flexible and will give you the ability to have both a web interface and a client runtime version.

Scott

[Drwho17]

Well, Mono is nowhere near ready to be used for any sort of webdevelopment project. In fact portable net does a far better job running apps for me, especially with a GUI. Mod_Mono and the xsp server for asp.net are pretty pathetic (although the developers have admitted this, and are trying to come up with a better way), php is a much nicer choice at this time.

[mopacfan]

What about windows? Will the php version work in windows? I know diddly about php.

[digitalpoint]

What about windows? Will the php version work in windows? I know diddly about php.
Yes, of course...

[goldenit]

Hi Shawn,

any idea on when the software would be released by date (expected).


My optigold web currently is falling over very badly.


regards


zack

[digitalpoint]

No, there is not going to be a release date until it's released.

[donet]

No, there is not going to be a release date until it's released.

Well, if there isn't a time frame how can we (your customers) make a determination to stay or not based on vaporware?

As you can see by the responses to this thread, this topic is very near and dear to our hearts... as it more or less runs our business.

Thanks!

[digitalpoint]

You would not be able to make a determination based on a projected release date (since there is not one).

[donet]

You would not be able to make a determination based on a projected release date (since there is not one).

I understand that. Let me remind everyone, that we have used OG for years, we really like it. It is a very good system. It has a lot of features and can do a lot of things, however, for years we have heard that "it is not possible, but might be when FMP 7.0 comes out". So this brings up a few questions about where we as a company want to go with our business.

1) How real is the 'possibility' of going to a more open system such as PHP/mySQL?

2) Are any of the features of FMP 7.0 going to be made available so that we might have better functionally that we are looking for in a system that is going to take us to the next level? (more open ODBC connectivity, more ability to refine reports)

3) Is OptiGold dead? Other than tweaks and minor changes, what new feature has OG offered lately...

I am positive I am not alone when I say, we as a client, would be willing to pay for a major upgrade in a billing / provisioning / ticket system that will allow us to compete in todays market. As of right now, OptiGold is not that product.

Thanks!

[digitalpoint]

I understand that. Let me remind everyone, that we have used OG for years, we really like it. It is a very good system. It has a lot of features and can do a lot of things, however, for years we have heard that "it is not possible, but might be when FMP 7.0 comes out". So this brings up a few questions about where we as a company want to go with our business.

1) How real is the 'possibility' of going to a more open system such as PHP/mySQL?
It's not a possibility, it's already happening. While there is not going to be a specific target date (doing that might lead to rushing it out the door just to meet a specific date), there will be live demos of the system at various points (some people saw where it was at over the summer for example).


2) Are any of the features of FMP 7.0 going to be made available so that we might have better functionally that we are looking for in a system that is going to take us to the next level? (more open ODBC connectivity, more ability to refine reports)
Optigold is not going to be rewritten for FileMaker 7, but the things you talk about will be available in the PHP version. The more "open" it can be made, the less work it ultimately is on our end. For example, there will be pre-defined credit card processors, reports, invoice formats, etc. But they are defined within a PHP file (which ultimately is a class). If you want to add another one, it's a matter of dropping a new module (really just a PHP file) in the proper directory.

Originally it was planned to move to FileMaker 7. And ironically the fact that FileMaker 7 is so good is one of the reasons we are moving off it. Because in order to actually take advantage of it properly, it would require a complete rewrite from the ground-up (sure, you can convert the files, but that doesn't make it use anything new in FileMaker 7). So no matter what direction it was going to take, in order to do it "right", it would require a complete rewrite. Once that was established, it seemed like the logical time to evaluate if there was a better platform to do it on.


3) Is OptiGold dead? Other than tweaks and minor changes, what new feature has OG offered lately...

I am positive I am not alone when I say, we as a client, would be willing to pay for a major upgrade in a billing / provisioning / ticket system that will allow us to compete in todays market. As of right now, OptiGold is not that product.

Thanks!
The FileMaker based version of Optigold is not going to be receiving any "major" new features. Basically just minor features/fixes. Optigold development time is primarily being spent on the rewrite. So Optigold (the product line) isn't dead, but the FileMaker based version is just in maintenance mode at this point.

[donet]

It's not a possibility, it's already happening.

Awesome...

I have a list of items I will post in "Feature Requests".

Is there a beta testers group for the new version? If so please sign us up.. we will do whatever you need us to do in order to make the next version even better.

Thanks Shawn...

[eve]

Originally it was planned to move to FileMaker 7. And ironically the fact that FileMaker 7 is so good is one of the reasons we are moving off it. Because in order to actually take advantage of it properly, it would require a complete rewrite from the ground-up (sure, you can convert the files, but that doesn't make it use anything new in FileMaker 7). So no matter what direction it was going to take, in order to do it "right", it would require a complete rewrite. Once that was established, it seemed like the logical time to evaluate if there was a better platform to do it on.

I guess I am one of the very few people who is quite unhappy with this decision. I do understand but this will get rid of exactly the reason why I chose Optigold a few years ago.

A Filemaker developer myself, I have played with several systems and have always come back to Filemaker for ease of use (and this, despite its sometimes glaring and obvious faults)...now, with Filemaker 7 having a true database engine for, in my eyes, the first time, I find it a great pity to see Optigold leave it.

Pity.

cheers
eve (who joined the forum just to to be able to say my piece :) )

[CydSP1]

This message may have been asked at some point in the past but alas I am unable to find record of it in this forum..so I will ask it anyway.

What happens to the source code for OptiGold if Digital Point sinks? Will it go into escrow?

Thanks

Cyd

[digitalpoint]

It's already in escrow. If we go out of business everything is released to the public domain automatically.

[shotel]

Any news or updates on the progress of Optigold/PhP? You pointed out there may be samples from time to time. Thanx!

[dougd]

Has a decision been made relative to the OptiGold rewrite? I too would vote for MySQL + PHP. Note using any portable language at least for the client would solve a whole bunch of problems. My company like a number of ISP's (yahoo, pair) uses FreeBSD. I would love not to have anything important on our windows machines.

Assuming you decide to stick with windows, I vote for be able to export raw data saving at least the export specification.

[WISENet]

Shawn any chance of a progess report?

We have been holding out for over a year on doing a major upgrade to our whole system. We would love to keep using Optigold, but we can't wait for ever.

Time to look else where for something that is already using php and mySQL, like agileco.com. Anybody looked at this or something else as good as Optigold but using php/mySQL?

[digitalpoint]

Shawn any chance of a progess report?No sorry... it's not going to be announced officially until it's ready to be shipped.

[dougd]

I was not looking for a progres report, just what direction you decided to go. Is that also a secret?

[dougd]

Never mind should have read earlier posts

[WISENet]

No sorry... it's not going to be announced officially until it's ready to be shipped.

Any chance of a rough time frame? Are we looking at weeks/months/years? (I'm sure nobody will hold you to it). Management wants us to decide by next month, so if you are close we will stall them looking at using something else....

Thanks
Aaron

[john]

No sorry... it's not going to be announced officially until it's ready to be shipped.

I'm not looking for an announcement even. I just want to know if it is actually being developed now or not. I realize it could take time to rewrite the whole thing, and it does sound like a daunting task, but it 'appears' that the Optigold development and progress has pretty much stalled.

My opinion is that all of us Optigold users should get some sort of update or acknowledgement on what is actually happening so that we don't start feeling like we are being led on a false hope. We are in a rapidly changing industry with many new needs that didn't even exist a few years ago and the key advantage that attracted us to OPTI was the timely development of new features, which ironically, it now lacks. I'm sure we are not the only ISP looking down the road and wondering if we should continue to wait for something that 'may or may not' come... or have to consider the unspeakable; converting to new billing software?

Please share your plans with us!

[Drwho17]

Yes it would be nice to know, I'm starting to catch some questions here about Optigold's status.

[tbuchanan]

I vote for php/mysql. I was never a big fan of Filemaker it made me think of MS Access whenever I used it for some reason.

My only question is... how exactly will we run invoices? A printer attached to the server possibly?

Thanks!
Trey

[tandac]

Why not PHP+Postgre?

PostgreSQL runs nicely on Linux and Windows with no special tricks required. It's mature and has triggers, PL/SQL languages, and refferential integrity. When designing an important company wide database those are the features that are important to me.

MySQL has none of the above features. Do you really want to be desiging a database without them?

[Drwho17]

I think it was settled much earlier that it is going to be php/mysql based.

[James]

I also vote for PHP/MySQL. Optigold is a very user friendly interface. Putting it on a robust database backend will only make it that much better.

[nighthawke]

PHP/OpenSQL or MySQL. Filemaker has hit a wall and is in need of a drastic overhaul to be competitive in the open source market. Once upon a time FM was the cat's meow when I worked for a ISP that used macs as their primary servers and office gear. It could take a beating and keep on ticking.

That time has passed now with the macs gone and all the equipment changed over to PC's and windows. And FM seems to have stayed in one place..

[davet]

Are there still plans for a new version & if so is there an ETA of when it will be available?

[glidewave]

Well, Filemaker hasn't necessarily stayed in one place, but Optigold has kinof...... we're at a point where I will not order any more licenses (been that way for a year), and the CEO basically said in a mgmt meeting this week "I don't care if it costs 20k, find a new system" <explitives removed>. So I have re-started my evaluations of other systems and am looking to sell/transfer our OG license.....especially because of the lack of any update or status....which isn't very fair to those that depend on the software. If the ISP side of our business was our only business, we'd be DOA at this point because we need more flexibility with regards to hosting integration, c/ilec backend integration, better handling of separate brands, true reseller support etc....etc..

Does my frustration show? :)

Jon Hiller
Other World Computing

[WISENet]

Us too, Jon. Be interested in what you change to, we are looking at agilebill.com (everything that Optigold should be....)

Aaron

[glidewave]

Aaron:

Never saw that one.....that is very interesting....will check out...

Jon

Us too, Jon. Be interested in what you change to, we are looking at agilebill.com (everything that Optigold should be....)

Aaron

[owc]

We now have 2 major revisions of Filemaker 7 and now 8.... still not even a sign of what's going on with OG....

As a side note I did install Agile... very simple... and got a reply regarding migration within an hour... but a little unsure as to dial-up use...but we'll see...

Jon.

[darren]

Well, I keep an eye on these forums in hope that the community will get an update eventually..... :-) Agilebill does not have builtin support for dialup but I've found it easy to do usage based billing on it using my own tools. Drop me a line if you like. I'm doing voip usage based billing on it.

Darren Wiebe
darren@aleph-com.net

[XtremePCConcepts]

Hi Guys
I am just wondering if this new one is going to be in a open source one because right now I am just starting up a wisp service and I just want to know if I can get the full verison of it without liceasing it right now intill get some money rolling in then i am thinking about liceasing it.

[glidewave]

DP: Not even a bread crumb as far as the "future of optigold"???.....

it's been over a year since we've all started voicing our desires/needs for the new birth of Opti, and after touting optigold from 1998-2003 (I recall conversing via the email list with Jeremy from MIA.NET helping me through some strange Opti/Macradius issues back during those times via the opti email list), and then purchasing Opti for the company that bought mine, I've now been given a week to finalize a replacement because of our increased churn and inability to offer what we need for the ISP side of our company to be competitive.... I've tested Agilebill - doesn't quite handle ISP types well (seems geared towards hosting); Platypus - Not sure yet; AdvancedISPBilling - awesome, and I mean awesome support (even without purchase) and now testing, and now adding RODOPI to test this weekend after reply from them....seems like it's going to be a once burned, 5 times shy type of thing......I mean opti may be great for those that *just* do dialup and can deal with Filemaker as a propriatary software so to speak...but with the ever expanding venue of services and options us ISP's need to offer to compete, it's not effective anymore....

We're (our company) is beyond using Filemaker, it's a pain;..and as one of the ISPs who *currently* dependent on a software for longevity ..we're beyond frustrated...heck..... I upgraded to Tiger server on our G5 server last week and it took a bit to figure out why Filemaker Server kept crashing when trying to startup .... had to delete everything down to the plist files.....and re-install Fmserver 5.5...Even with our main accounting system (iCode Everest), we don't have such issues.....(as the database backend is a current product, MS-SQL Advanced - yeah I hate windows, but it works).....

I sound like a jaded person, but I've been waiting for some word so I can stay with Opti, but with the lack of information, or even a realistic timeline like most customer oriented companies offer their customers, I'm hard pressed to "keep the faith" so to speak any longer......it looks like either AdvancedISPB or RODOPI will renew my faith unfortunately.

I swear this will be my last ramble.... either out of restraint or because I've moved on so to speak to another system. But do welcome my fellow ISP's input!

Jon Hiller
OWC

[digitalpoint]

Not even a bread crumb as far as the "future of optigold"???.....Nope, sorry... Future versions are not announced until the day they are publicly available. If you need something that runs on something other than FileMaker within a week, I can tell you it will not be out in a week, but that's about all I can say really.

[glidewave]

Shawn:
I really didn't expect it to be out in a week. You could say more, but you answer with nothing more than that? I wasn't giving you a deadline, I was telling you my deadline; as a result of no information except "announced when released". I know I could stay with opti and stop deleting cancelled customers if we had an eta of any kind other than the one last year... I've been crying wolf internally here for over 10 months as I say "the new version is coming"; just wait. Our company is not based on an ISP; the ISP portion is about 12 percent annually of the company as a whole; yet I've always enjoyed the previous support and Apple friendliness of Opti since I started my first ISP in 1995. But now that we're well beyond 20 customers, having to report in a management meeting that "we're waiting for the new version" and being asked "what is the eta" for over a year, with no answer is wholly unacceptable.

Seriously, in the beginning when I was just entering the ISP business in 95 and thereafter I sincerely enjoyed you're curt and seemingly annoyed answers to things.... I'm near your age and I'm dealing with a 36M a year company trying to make decisions based on those replys now?....c'mon.. you can't think I'm out of line!

Jon Hiller
OWC
Edit/Delete Message

[TeleSouthNet]

Shawn is too busy being the "Master of the Universe" to be bothered with loyal clients or long forgotten promises to support the product. And as a result Optigold ISP has lost its golden luster. Just my opinion.

[TeleSouthNet]

Shawn, Someone MYSTERIOUSLY removed my posting regarding the LACK OF SUPPORT being provided. Hmmm, I wonder why?

I assume this one will be removed too. As it reflects one of the FEW requests we have made in years.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=18958

Two months and NO RESPONSE. And now I have upgraded and find that a bug we have pointed out has been ignored.

Are you going to remove this one too?

[digitalpoint]

No one deleted any of your posts. You can use the search function to find all your posts.

[TeleSouthNet]

Yes this is true. It was an issue with my browser and not the deletion of a post that caused confusion.

But I note that it is now THREE months since our original request for support. Namely the Virtual Check issue that needs to be fixed.

[sparklogic]

Nope, sorry... Future versions are not announced until the day they are publicly available. If you need something that runs on something other than FileMaker within a week, I can tell you it will not be out in a week, but that's about all I can say really.

Hi Shawn,

I share the frustration expressed by others on the list. With so little information being released by Digital Point, it puts into question if anything is being worked on at all. I think everyone understands that your policy is one not to announce release dates, but I do think it would help everyone out if you could provide a tenative feature list, screenshots, an alpha/beta version to play with, or something beyond "it is being worked on" and "it is php and mysql".

Clearly there are alternative packages out there as Jon and others have listed, but we all chose OptiGold over many of those alternatives in the first place -- and now that decision is being put into question by the lack of information regarding the OptiGold rewrite. Please offer something up as reassurance that we aren't looking at vaporware.

Thanks.

--Mike

[glidewave]

Please offer something up as reassurance that we aren't looking at vaporware.

Thanks.

--Mike


I expect "Not announced until released" to be posted again-and for the next year. :) Anyone want our 5000 user license ;)

Jon.