Free Movies - Deaf Topics - Debt Consolidation - TV News - Wordpress Themes

PDA

View Full Version : Google's Giant Sandbox


Chrissicom
Feb 9th 2005, 2:03 am
If you pay any attention to the search engine optimization community, you have probably heard about Google's sandbox. Knowing exactly what the sandbox is might be a little confusing, but it is an important concept to know if you hope to eventually be successful with Google.

What is the Sandbox?

Before we get too far into an explanation as to what Google’s sandbox is, it must be noted that not everyone even agrees that the sandbox exists. The sandbox is actually nothing more than a theory developed to explain what many different SEO experts have witnessed with their listings. Whether or not the sandbox really exists is actually irrelevant when we know that the effects of the sandbox exist.

Google’s sandbox is a relatively new filter that appeared to be put in place back in March of 2004. This happened after the widely publicized updates of Austin and Florida, and the implementation of what is known as the Austin update. If you are not sure what those are, there is no need to worry as those updates are now for the most part in the past. The sandbox filter seems to affect nearly all new websites placing them on an initial “probation” status. The effect of this is that new websites may get into Google’s SERP’s (search engine results pages) relatively quickly and may even perform well for a couple of weeks. When the filter is applied to the new website it is referred to as being put in the “sandbox”. The new website will still show in the result pages, but it will not rank well regardless of how much original, well optimized content and regardless of how many quality inbound links the site may have. The filter restrains new websites from having immediate success in the search engine result pages.

The sandbox filter seems to affect almost all new websites, with very few exceptions. It is important to note that the filter is not a punishment for anything the webmaster did with their new website. The filter is merely an initiation period for new websites.

The sandbox filter also affects more competitive keyword driven sites more than sites that key in on less competitive keywords. If your website focuses on very competitive keywords, you are likely to remain in the sandbox for a longer period of time than if you focus on keywords that are relatively non-competitive keywords.

Why Does the Sandbox Exist?

There is a lot of debate as to whether the sandbox filter is a good thing for Google to implement or not. Obviously webmasters who are trying to get their sites well positioned in Google do not like the sandbox filter as it prevents them from receiving the huge levels of traffic that a top listing in Google can bring. The filter was not implemented at random, however, and there is some good reasoning for the filter existing.

As the SEO community figured out the basic elements of Google’s ranking algorithm, inbound links, original content rich with keywords, and the proper use of anchor text, search engine spammers began to take advantage of these elements. Search engine spammers would setup websites that were in clear violation of Google’s policies with the knowledge that eventually their website would be banned from the listings. This, however, did not matter. If a search engine spammer could get their website to rank well in Google for even one month, the profits they could make from that one month would justify the cost of building the site in the first place. All they needed to do in the future was to rebuild their spam websites with different domains and slightly different content.
The idea for spammers was a simple one. Capitalize off of Google’s traffic for as long as they can (before they get banned), then do it all over again with a new website. The method was extremely effective and easy to implement.

What made this all the more easy to accomplish was Google’s extremely fast indexing. While other search engines would take several months to index a new website, Google could index a website in as little as one month (they are now indexing sites within a few days). Search engine spammers were living large off of Google’s generosity.

To solve this problem, Google determined that it would compromise. They would still index websites quickly, attempting to get as much new, fresh content out to the general public as possible, but they would not trust new websites implicitly as they had in the past. All new websites that were launched would be put on probation. As time passed, and as the sites continued to pass any spam filters they ran, the website will not be held back from performing well in the rankings. Eventually, after quite a bit of time had passed, a site would be allowed to “leave” the sandbox and join the rest of the established websites.

How Does This Affect My Website?

If you have a new website, there is a good chance that you will be placed in the sandbox. This should be expected, but it should not change the way you build your website or market it. You should use the sandbox filter to your advantage.

Google still ranks websites in much the same way that they had in the past. Websites are judged on the quality of their inbound links and the quality of their content. Google will continue to change how they evaluate inbound links and content, but the basic elements of their rankings will remain the same.

While your website is in the sandbox, you should use this time to build your traffic using regular traffic building methods such as writing articles, building a strong community of visitors, and partnering with websites that offer some synergy to your visitors. During your time on probation, you have an excellent opportunity to build all the elements that cause websites to perform well in the search engines. When you finally do leave the sandbox, your website should be very well positioned within Google.

Is My Website in the Sandbox?

When webmasters learn about the sandbox filter, their first question is always whether or not their website has been placed in it. Determining whether or not you are in the sandbox is a relatively easy task to do.

First, being placed in the sandbox is different than having your website banned. If you do a search for your domain in Google and they return zero results for your website (and you had been previously listed in Google), there is a chance that you have been banned. One of the best ways to determine if you have been banned is to look at your log files to see if Google is visiting your website. Banned websites typically do not see Google visit their websites, regardless of who is linking to them.

If you have not been banned, but do not rank well with Google, you should look at the quality of your content and the quality of your inbound links. You should also see if you rank well for non-competitive keywords. Remember how the filter affects competitive keywords more than less competitive keywords? Well, you can use this to determine if you have been sandboxed. Finally, if you rank well in all the other major search engines, but do not show up at all in Google’s rankings, you have probably been sandboxed.

Is There A Way to Get Out of the Sandbox?

The quick answer to this is yes, there is a way out of the sandbox, but you will not like the answer. The answer is to simply wait. The sandbox filter is not a permanent filter and is only intended to reduce search engine spam. It is not intended to hold people back from succeeding. So eventually, if you continue to build your site as it should be built, you will leave the sandbox and join the other established websites.

Again, if your website has been placed in the sandbox you should use this time to your advantage. It is a great opportunity to build your traffic sources outside of the search engines. If you have a website that does well in the search engines, you may be tempted to ignore other proven methods of traffic building such as building a community, or building strong inbound links through partnerships. However, if you establish traffic sources outside of search engines, when you finally leave the sandbox, you will see a welcome increase in your traffic levels.

Conclusion

Google has been going to great lengths to cut out on search engine spam. Some have faulted them on the lengths that they are going to claiming that it is effecting legitimate sites as well as the spam websites. While this is probably the case, as an owner of a website you need to place yourself in the position of Google and ask yourself what they are really looking for in a website. Google is looking for websites that offer quality content. Google still relies on the natural voting system that was first used to establish pagerank. They may change the way that they qualify content or inbound links, but the basic elements of a quality website will always remain the same.

No website owner in their right mind will “like” Google’s sandbox. However, a smart website owner will use the sandbox as an opportunity to build a website that Google simply cannot refuse.

Original Article written by Mark Daoust

ephricon
Feb 9th 2005, 4:27 am
Not a bad article. Scottie Claiborne also wrote something that went out in this AM's SiteProNews newsletter on the sandbox...

protesto
Feb 9th 2005, 5:27 am
Are MSN and Yahoo using something similar to google's sandbox? Most of my visitors come from Google. Also my site is correctly indexed by Yahoo and MSN, but they send very very few visitors to my site.
I don't remember the exact time but MSN have sent me a lot of visitor only for a week and then it stopped. I don't know why has this happened. This article make me think that also other search engines may have sandbox.

Chrissicom
Feb 9th 2005, 5:46 am
MSN and Yahoo has no Sandbox effect for my sites, all my sites are listed in the TOP 10 at MSN and Yahoo.

Old Welsh Guy
Feb 9th 2005, 5:49 am
Each engine has its own set of criteria for applying one dampening factor or another. The Google sandbox is one such dampener for links. Yahoo puts more weight on lins that MSN but less than Google. Yahoo is very good at identifying un natural linking patterns (cross linking etc) and acts swiftly.

The plain fact is though that all the main search engines are competing at the moment, the move by MSN from Yahoo search data to its own MSN search database and search algo have obvuiously made a difference.

Both MSN and Google have introduced geo targeting in the last two weeks, in the uk you are now defaulted to google.co.uk if you type in google.com. MSN is also delivering HUGELY different results geographically, so all of this might have a bearing on your recent experience.

crazyhorse
Feb 9th 2005, 6:06 am
Both MSN and Google have introduced geo targeting in the last two weeks, in the uk you are now defaulted to google.co.uk if you type in google.com. MSN is also delivering HUGELY different results geographically, so all of this might have a bearing on your recent experience.

Do you know what the reason could be for this. I have noticed it myself before as well. Maybe the geographics from the links?

Chrissicom
Feb 9th 2005, 6:10 am
I don't know if I understood you right but I think if you visit google.com it doesn't matter where you are for your search results. You are only re-directed automatically to google.de in Germany when your cookie cache is empty but when you decide to visit google.com or set your computers region to United States you get the same results from google.com as everyone else.

crazyhorse
Feb 9th 2005, 6:21 am
I don't know if I understood you right but I think if you visit google.com it doesn't matter where you are for your search results. You are only re-directed automatically to google.de in Germany when your cookie cache is empty but when you decide to visit google.com or set your computers region to United States you get the same results from google.com as everyone else.

Not sure if this is for me the answer but...if so

then i must disagree it does matter , which search engine you use. Local search engines bring me more traffic then the main.com search engines and it doesnt matter whether if use MSN or Google. Thats why i asked, do you know what could be the reason? Geographics of the links, language themed, location of the host?

Chrissicom
Feb 9th 2005, 6:46 am
For Yahoo and MSN I get the most traffic from the main sites, for google I get the most from google.de because I am listed #1 there, but I am not listed at google.com because I use a different domain for the German and English version. The English version is pretty new that's why google.com doesn't list it.

12FreeForums
Feb 9th 2005, 9:55 am
The Google sandbox seems to be lasting almost a full year now.

mitche7081
Feb 11th 2005, 9:51 am
I have a website that I have not done much optimizing on until this last week in which I have done aggressive link exchanges, and purchasing as well as on page optimization that is immediately paying off on Google. I have several key phrases showing up on other major search engines in the top 5-10, but on Google, I am ranking 35-40 on most of these with only a couple of exceptions which are less popular key phrases. Is it possible that Goolgle is sandboxing me now although the site has been live for 2 years?

ONE IMPORTANT FACT: I did change hosting copanies and I.P. address about 3 months ago.. Along with this change came a new design and new shopping cart. The domain name was transferred though and has not changed in 2 years.. With this fact known, will google still be sandboxing me?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. The site is www.monstersteel.com - Thanks!

mitche7081
Feb 11th 2005, 9:52 am
Also, if I am sandboxed.. How long can I expect to be in there building sandcastles?

Chrissicom
Feb 11th 2005, 10:00 am
You can be in there theoretically forever, depends on how often your design and ip changes. Google relies on too many things being static in my opinion.

bobmutch
Feb 11th 2005, 10:01 am
I have this nice simple utility list on my free seo tools page that lets you search and see what your results are for a keyword with the sandbox penalty lifted.
www.seocompany.ca/tool/seo-tools.html#advanced-google-search-methods (http://www.seocompany.ca/tool/seo-tools.html#advanced-google-search-methods)
Enter your keyword and click the button that says "Search results for the keyword with the sandbox penalty suspended" that is right above the "Search Google" button.

MaxM
Feb 11th 2005, 10:33 am
Quite informative, thanks for the run down.

Chrissicom
Feb 11th 2005, 1:01 pm
Well without the sandbox filter applied my sites rank nearly the same, and my English site is still unlisted although it's the best Sandy site around :-( boo @ Google lol

bobmutch
Feb 11th 2005, 3:38 pm
Chrissicom: I was on first page for most of my terms on Google with the sandbox penalty suspended switch and #1 in a number also. Until feb 4th algo update. Now I am almost no where. I have to add a whole paragraph to get #1 spot. Even now my own domain seocompany.ca is like around 88.

metrics
Feb 14th 2005, 12:32 pm
I don't know if I understood you right but I think if you visit google.com it doesn't matter where you are for your search results. You are only re-directed automatically to google.de in Germany when your cookie cache is empty but when you decide to visit google.com or set your computers region to United States you get the same results from google.com as everyone else.

From my experience, Google shows different results, depending on your location. A search in google.com from the USA sometimes shows different results than a search from google.com in Israel. I think they try to give more weight to local sites. I have noticed this out because I use a software tool to hide my IP so that I can see Google Ads shown in the US.

NewComputer
Feb 14th 2005, 12:45 pm
Chrissicom: I was on first page for most of my terms on Google with the sandbox penalty suspended switch and #1 in a number also. Until feb 4th algo update. Now I am almost no where. I have to add a whole paragraph to get #1 spot. Even now my own domain seocompany.ca is like around 88.

Bob,

You mentioned that you have had to add an entire paragraph... Do have more information about that process. Did it work? What sort of content and what made you decide to add one more paragraph? Just trying to paint a picture with a very broad brush here.

Old Welsh Guy
Feb 14th 2005, 2:47 pm
I don't know if I understood you right but I think if you visit google.com it doesn't matter where you are for your search results. You are only re-directed automatically to google.de in Germany when your cookie cache is empty but when you decide to visit google.com or set your computers region to United States you get the same results from google.com as everyone else.

In the UK if you type in Google.com into the browser, you get taken to google.co.uk. The same is the case in Canada and has been for soe time. I can't speak for other countries.

If I want to search Google.com I have no option that to use the gtoolbar and set it to search g.com.

IMO it is much better as most people want local results, you are given the option of worldwide or localuk only anyhow.

In MSN however it is different. A search for worldwide on one subject returns 8 million pages, but the same search on msn.com returnd 30 odd million pages.

whitedovecleaning
Apr 22nd 2005, 1:00 am
maybe if ya greesed googles pokets with a add would that help?
pay the keeper of the sandbox to play?

Old Welsh Guy
Apr 22nd 2005, 3:30 am
Nope Gogle adwords and their organic algo are not intertwined. Although there are plenty of conspiracy theorists out there who willswear otherwise.

whitedovecleaning
Apr 22nd 2005, 6:34 pm
Conspiracy theorys apart!
You mean goggle is a perfect honest company with integrity close to Jesus himself, no temptations. They have a perfect management and are unseated by large clients paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertisements (ebay for example).
This plays no part in their top page rank somehow?

Call me naive (since this is speculation on my behalf)
But if someone advertised on my website and paid me $100,000 and another person paid me $1.00 to advertise on my site, you bet dollars to doughnuts my $100,000 dollar client would have the biggest, badest and most exposure on my site! Unless of course im in the business just for the comradery and friendship I will acquire.

flyguy
Apr 23rd 2005, 6:31 am
Here's another sandbox tool. Unfiltered search.
http://roberttaft.com/no_filter.htm

Interesting results.

flyguy
Apr 23rd 2005, 9:36 am
Here's a question.
For those who have came out of the sandbox, what was your PR at the time you were released? Any thoughts on a connection between PR and sand box release?

Dreamshop
Apr 23rd 2005, 4:30 pm
Hey flyguy,

I've not seen anything consistent to show that PR is part of the equation. I had several sites "pop out" of the sandbox after the February update. Their PR was really all over the board. I also have some brand new sites (0 PR on the toolbar) that are rocking for regional based terms. The older sites I'd begun optimizing around April through June of last year. One site which I started working on September is still nowhere to be found,

Clearly time and the competitive level of keywords plays a part. Ahhhh....so many pieces to the puzzle. :rolleyes:

mizt
Apr 23rd 2005, 5:07 pm
With that Sandbox filter thing it says I'm #2. Yeah buddy got to get back of the sandbox.

aboyd
Apr 25th 2005, 5:45 am
With a normal Google search for "publisher database" my site doesn't even rank. But without the sandbox, my site is #1.

I would kinda like to escape the sandbox. Now.

jlawrence
Apr 26th 2005, 1:52 am
I'm not sure exactly what this tool shows. Normal search #10 sandbox search #1.
I can't believe the site is sandboxed - not with a top 10 result.

aboyd
Apr 26th 2005, 5:38 am
How old is your site?

rubenmajor
Apr 27th 2005, 8:14 pm
So really the real question is: What is the average time spent in the sandbox prior to leaving and when do sites usually get to leave? At a BL update, PR update? When? :confused:

aboyd
Apr 27th 2005, 10:25 pm
I've heard it could be up to 6 months. But man, I hope not. My site is only 1 month old. If I have to wait another 5 months, ugh.

bobmutch
Apr 27th 2005, 11:13 pm
Some say the sandbox is from 6 months to 18 months for a new site. Also some say if you get to many links to fast you can sandbox those links.

As for leaving they ususally leave slowly.

rubenmajor
Apr 28th 2005, 12:05 am
I am pretty sure my sites are sandboxed for now with google. I am #1 for a term and in the top 10 for other keywords in MSN and Yahoo. Hopefully the wait won't be long!

flyguy
Apr 28th 2005, 3:22 am
Also some say if you get to many links to fast you can sandbox those links.

So are you saying that if you're out of the sandbox and later get a large amount of backlinks all at one time, the links and their weight will be sandboxed or will your site will be sandboxed again?

davedx
Apr 28th 2005, 3:36 am
Argh. Unless PR3 BL's don't count for anything, my new sites have been sandboxed too. I don't get it, I didn't build up hardcore links, I'd guess they should be about a PR3 by the IBL's I have, but... bleh. I just don't get it :)

jlawrence
Apr 28th 2005, 3:55 am
aboyd: site is about 2 years old. But only started being seo'd and linked to recently. We did have a site wide (by accident) that gave us 2900 IBL's for a short period.
But I can't see how we'd be #10 if we're sandboxed.
I do have another site that jumps from #23 -> #1.

Estrange
Apr 28th 2005, 3:06 pm
So really the real question is: What is the average time spent in the sandbox prior to leaving and when do sites usually get to leave? At a BL update, PR update? When? :confused:

IMO it's about 6 months.Depends on G algo update frequency as well.
This Sandbox filter is most ridiculous policy I ever met. This is so shallow mind IMO.
They have to find better method to distinguish between dodgy and good sites.

bobmutch
Apr 28th 2005, 3:23 pm
flyguy: No those links will go into the sandbox. The site will not.

flyguy
Apr 28th 2005, 3:32 pm
Good to know. Thanks.

bobmutch
Apr 28th 2005, 4:21 pm
flyguy: its only an opinion but I would have to say that is the opinion most hold to. I have read of sites that gone huge links and when back into the sandbox.

Blogmaster
May 2nd 2005, 2:59 am
I have said it before but will say it again: a great way to never be in the sandbox is to have your site discovered thru DMOZ, Yahoo! Directory or any high powered site such as the USA Today hot sites section.

rubenmajor
May 2nd 2005, 6:30 am
Ok, let's suppose you get into one of these directories after you are sandboxed. Will you then be pulled out?

Blogmaster
May 2nd 2005, 7:06 am
Not likely right away even though it might shorten your wait. The key is not to be over anxious to get indexed quickly when having a new site go live.

rubenmajor
May 2nd 2005, 1:40 pm
But in reality, who isn't over-anxious when starting a new site? :eek:

exam
May 2nd 2005, 2:22 pm
Here is some info I can lend to the Sandbox discussion based on a site I own.

Domain bought: January 2004
Site live: Early July 2004
Site first touched by Google: First week of August 2004
Google stats to date:

site: 4,830
link: 269
And the site does not rank for the kw phrase I'm targeting :)
However, with the tool (http://www.seocompany.ca/tool/seo-tools.html#advanced-google-search-methods) that bobmutch mentioned the site comes in #19. I'm not 100% convinced that by adding a load of irrelevant words to the query it will actually return results w/o the sandbox effect, but who knows. Anyways, if this is the Sandbox, then it can last a long time :(

aboyd
May 2nd 2005, 3:47 pm
Anyways, if this is the Sandbox, then it can last a long time :(
That makes me sad.

rubenmajor
May 2nd 2005, 4:11 pm
Google does talk about a penalty for new sites which acquire links quickly in their patent application, but a penalty lasting 9 months seems very impractical to me. Are you sure that there is not something else causing such trouble? Perhaps linkage to a good neighborhood that turned bad? It only takes one.

Netizen
May 2nd 2005, 9:23 pm
I have 2 sites under the grip of Google's "sandbox" or "new site filter" or whatever you want to call it. Both sites rank reasonably well in all non-Google search engines, but only rank for obscure keywords in Google.

One site was first spidered by G in July, the other in September.

There is no roadmap to get out, either. Most seem to be released en masse (I think Randfish said that) with no common element that would indicate the webmaster has any influence. Inbound links from bad neighborhoods should not be able to cause problems since you cannot control who links to you.

lingeriediva
May 2nd 2005, 11:13 pm
It took Lingerie Dreams about five months to get out of the sandbox...but it was really worth the wait as my Google traffic is five times my Yahoo...

bentong
May 3rd 2005, 12:46 am
to get out of the sandbox

how can we determine if a site was really out of the box?

Stin
May 3rd 2005, 1:06 am
http://roberttaft.com/no_filter.htm

Tells you what you will rank without being sandboxed, compare the 2 SERPs.

http://www.socengine.com/seo/tools/sandbox-tool.php

Takes about an hour and then gives you a report on your sandbox status.

bentong
May 3rd 2005, 1:31 am
thanks! nice tool...

rubenmajor
May 3rd 2005, 12:33 pm
In Google's Patent Application recently submitted, they state specifically that if a site is included by the Yahoo directory, that it will not have to wait or the waiting time will be decreased significantly. Their formula is H=L/log(F+2), which basically means the older the document the higher the ranking. When the site is placed in a reputable directory such as DMOZ or Yahoo then the formula is lifted or decreased in severity.

flyguy
May 3rd 2005, 6:42 pm
What about msn directory? http://sbd.bcentral.com/
Any other directories other than yahoo or dmoz ?

runnerunner
May 3rd 2005, 8:30 pm
how do these "unsandbag-ed" search engines work their magic? Anyone know if they work?

rubenmajor
May 3rd 2005, 9:55 pm
Google specifically mentions the Yahoo Directory and describes the others as "important directories."

bentong
May 4th 2005, 12:13 am
When the site is placed in a reputable directory such as DMOZ or Yahoo then the formula is lifted or decreased in severity.

site just listed on dmoz and yahoo directory last month, how long will i wait to appear my listing on G directory? also, they haven't an update yet on their directory. with regards to sandox, appearing on Y and ODP directory, does this mean that my sooner my site will be out of the box?

rubenmajor
May 4th 2005, 12:51 am
If google is following their recent patent application, then I believe so.

tradefor
May 4th 2005, 4:11 am
Hello
First, thank you to Bobmutch and Stin. I have yet to try the robertaft tool, but I did try the algotech one: what a trip to find oneself #4 behind the SEC and Smartmoney on one of my important key phrases - pity it is not real! :rolleyes:

My (first and only so far) site was built in February, and indexed by Google last week. Absolutely nothing yet on MSN or Yahoo, though frequently Slurped.

I woefully lack back-links (really don't have any), and as a newbie am getting confused now as to how many I should aim for, and how quickly. I certainly don't want to be penalized twice: once, for being new; and secondly, for being too eager or indiscriminate in making link connections.


What I object to the most is Google's abuse of its quasi-monopoly power, and restraint of trade. If you are going to have essentially one arbiter that makes or breaks a new site - then set some open, detailed, and specific standards, reveal them completely, and have some human intervention involved in their implementation. Even if a PR6 or 7 site would think my pages were excellent and relevant to them, how presently are they ever going to link to me, if they cannot easily find that I exist?

runnerunner
May 4th 2005, 3:37 pm
good point tradefor. I think google doesn't like to reveal much in order to keep people from abusing the system. Once you tell everyone exactly how things are done, people will figure out ways to get around it.

But I agree. I think the sandboxing of backlinks is ridiculous. Let's go back to yahoo.

rubenmajor
May 4th 2005, 4:58 pm
Or to MSN. They are throwing tons of cash into the search engine business. I think their results are a little more relavent as well.

Arnie
May 5th 2005, 9:20 am
I'm sandboxed because of my own mistake. I didn't check my linkexchange partners regulary. Some changed content - one even became a porn site. Until this happened I was doing well with google traffic and was in top position with my keywords. In yahoo and MSN I'm still on the first pages.
So better watch your link exchange programs and sites. I changed my link exchange strategy completely. I'll concentrate more on content again, because this was it what put me on the top.

Stin
May 5th 2005, 9:27 am
with enough referalls link vault will tell you who you are linking to, another good idea is to run a link checking bot through your site, (with the coop the links are gonna be changing so this isnt quite as affective) I use Xenu to check links.

coolguy
May 31st 2005, 5:20 pm
My site has been up for 2 1/2 weeks. MSN, Yahoo, Google all have only main page of the site.

I thought MSN, Yahoo would be indexing the site. What is the average wait time for Yahoo, MSN to begin indexing whole site ?

Coolguy

Jan
May 31st 2005, 11:41 pm
It depends. Especially MSN can take a very long time... (if ever)

GreenWood
Jun 1st 2005, 10:02 am
I have noticed correlation between sand and advertising google on the right
If it is not enough advertising or not that sand does not touch even sites by high-frequency inquiries