DMOZ - a test of ethics

[accountability]

Having long been a supporter of ODP, and a defender of it's abuse system. It is disturbing to see this post

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31571

and this

http://www.rubberstamped.org/blog.html

Apparently the site was approved by an editor called skrenta, who was one of the founders of ODP. Any other editor doing this would be held accountable for trading a listing in ODP for a listing of his own site in that directory.

Based on a previous decision to make across the board listings of another skrenta owned site: http://rss.topix.net/rss/ - I believe that there is a reluctance to get involved. At that time, those who attempted to question the listing of topix.net were told not to argue with it.

I have also been told that although in general it is possible for an editor to look at all edits for another editor, it is not possible to do this for skrenta.

The mass of editors at ODP tries to do a fair and equitable job - it is a massive effort of volunteers and although not perfect, it provides a unique source of information. If this listing is left in ODP, and skrenta remains as an editor - it does a dis-service to those other editors and calls into question whether the abuse controls are above board.

[ResaleBroker]

Talk about adding fuel to the fire.

[mopacfan]

No introduction thread, just jumping in with both feet... So what exactly is it 'accountabiltiy' that you would like to see done in this matter? Me thinks this is another one post wonder.

[yfs1]

Its always a one post wonder when their screen name is related to their first post. :rolleyes:

Although as one post wonders go, at least its a little bit interesting.

[nandini]

Interesting, a lot.. people who can`t stand on their own feet comes up with false names, for one or two posts and then disappear mysteriously in their own saddened world waiting for another oppurtunity to get their hands for abusing someone else.

[Bernard]

More info on the subject can be found here:

http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17260&perpage=20&pagenumber=4#post175827

[SEbasic]

Somewhat related and made me laugh...

http://www.corruptdmozeditor.com/

[whateverusay]

Something else sorta related..... geocities.com/insidedmoz/ (looks like it gone now. Another one bites the dust)

It is fast becomming who you know and not what you know but I am sceptical of how legitimate the corrupt one is but I agree with SEbasic in as much as it is very funny especially since the page has changed in the past few days after finding a public posting about the site in a meta's (or x meta's) blog. More and more a rant and I ain't convinced it is an editor. Everything in that 'rant' is publicly available.

As for the 'bid for an editor account' site god only knows how true it is until someone actually buys one. I expect it goes on all the time though just not as blantant as to offer it via a website :)

As for the skrenta thing I hear from a current editor that it is causing a bit of upset on the inside and people are leaving the ODP hand over foot with the loss of a couple of meta's already who are unhappy with what went down and I doubt they will be the last. Rumour has it that if skrenta is not booted a lot more editors will be walking away from the ODP.

Only time will tell but this has gotta be the worst time for ODP in a long time.

[Bernard]

As for the skrenta thing I hear from a current editor that it is causing a bit of upset on the inside and people are leaving the ODP hand over foot with the loss of a couple of meta's already who are unhappy with what went down and I doubt they will be the last. Rumour has it that if skrenta is not booted a lot more editors will be walking away from the ODP.

toot, toot, toot (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17260&perpage=20&pagenumber=6#post175875)

[Las Vegas Homes]

Looks like there may be some trash clearing going on at the ODP. I for one will not be disappointed. I have always believe that dmoz was corrupt. It also reminds me of a game called everquest, people were selling their high level accounts all the time.

[VegasMack]

Only time will tell but this has gotta be the worst time for ODP in a long time.Until there is some heavy duty house keeping, I fear it will only get worse for my once beloved ODP.

~VegasMack

[Blogmaster]

these guys are too much http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159020#post159020
One would think that in light of all their scandals they may be a little more humble ... but no!


This is becoming fun :D

[ferret77]

Damn I started reading that thread over at ihelpyou

that one guys sig says

"Moderator, and Campaigner for a White Hatted Internet; Wear Your Hat With Pride."

muhahhahah

Anyways to add fuel to the fire

some one told me you can just straight pay for dmoz listings

I'll test it out and if it works I won't tell anyone else, you won't hear back

[Blogmaster]

Actually I have been banned because of this: http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159020#post159020

Was I really out of line to that extent?

[SEbasic]

Man, I want to post in that thread but don't want to stir anything up...

What a close minded view most of those editors have...

The Traffic Wardens of the Net... Haha

[Cyclops]

I read it too....... from someone who has never worried about submitting to dmoz, well after reading that thread I never will.......dmoz and it's up-themselves editors can go jump.

I realise this is not very articulate but I am aghast after reading that thread. If that's the attitude of the editors (they are playing God in a big big way) I think dmoz should be closed down. End of story.......

[Blogmaster]

I went there initially to get a client's site listed and find out information but lateron I was so disgusted with their lack of help. Everytime you ask, 3 editors respond answering absolutely nothing, they simply cut and paste. Funny thing is, I have friends who are editors, just not for the right categories :D

[minstrel]

If DMOZ really cares about public perception, they should dump the ironically-named "resource zone" -- it's a joke -- non-editors go there to ask questions about the status of their sites and editors respond with condescension, rudeness, and arrogance -- not a good advertisement for DMOZ.

Then again, if DMOZ really cares about service to the internet community, they should just dump DMOZ.

[Blogmaster]

I have been adviced to go back and apologize but I am not sure that I see a need for it. I have seen so much corruption within their organization within the past 6 months. The behaviour displayed is the kind of behaviour which enables editors to do as they please in an unsupervised manner. The energy they put into holding on to their power supercedes any desire to increase quality of their listings.

[minstrel]

What would you apologize FOR? Stating the obvious?

[William]

And i didn't think it good become any worse over there :p

I hope there is a big clean up soon. either that or they close it. Don´t think either will happen though. Maybe google could start their own directory without using dmoz

[Blogmaster]

There is a lot more to come, starting now!

[Mia]

I guess I kinda wonder just how much bearing something like DMOZ really has on the SE/SEO world. My guess would be less than one one billionth of a percent.

[GTech]

I went over to their forum about a month ago, having been given some advice that they could give you a status on your submission.

I was shocked to see the posts there. I left the site thinking the surest way to never get my site in DMOZ is to post there. I was not about to make a post on the status of several sites after what I read there.

I have a number of non-affiliate sites I've tried to get listed for years with no success. After reading about the problems they are having internally and various other things, I won't be trying anymore.

I realize not "all" editors there do these things, but "all" is not a common denominator before one recognizes a problem. I do wish them luck and hope they can restore some level of integrity.

[minstrel]

The most ridiculous and most frequently repeated defense of the mess that is DMOZ is "we're all volunteers".

Okay. And? That justifies the condescending close-minded defensive hypocrisy and the outright attacks on anyone who dares question what they do?

[anthonycea]

Finally, DMOZ and I agree on one thing ......... banning ST :eek:

PS: Just kidding ST :p :confused:

OK ST, quit causing trouble everywhere, OK :)

[Las Vegas Homes]

The most ridiculous and most frequently repeated defense of the mess that is DMOZ is "we're all volunteers".

Okay. And? That justifies the condescending close-minded defensive hypocrisy and the outright attacks on anyone who dares question what they do?

Yes they are all volunteers that are there to help their sites and anyone who doesnt compete with them in their industry or anyone who is willing to bow down to the preceived power they have. On another note they say the directory is not for serp seekers,but I say why else would you want to be listed in there...LOL how many people go to dmoz to search for a product.

On another forum there was a very good point made. In Las vegas there is a little over 17,000 real estate agents, out of that only 185 listings pertain to Las Vegas real estate. Las Vegas is known for having a lot of sites on the net for this market but yet only 185 listed in dmoz, go figure.

[minstrel]

Yep. And one of the editors in the "Resourceless Ozone" forum actually said, "We already have 185 real estate sites listed in the directory -- why would anyone want any more?"

Hmmm... we already have 640kb RAM -- why would anyone want any more?

[anthonycea]

The Minstrel Directory, please contact me Minstrel so I can help you start this.

I am sure that your photo is on a dartboard at DMOZ with all of your websites listed, to hit a bullseye means between yours.

You must be public enemy # 1 over there by now Minstrel, so let me know when you are ready to start your directory, I will help you because none of your sites will ever be in DMOZ :p :confused: :p

[minstrel]

There are already plenty of directories -- for the life of me, I don't know why DMOZ is even still alive.

[anthonycea]

They got a good thing going and AOL will automate it one day as we discussed, just wait and see Minstrel.

The more pressure you put on them the faster the editors will all get fired and change will be made, because it is way past due at this point.

[minstrel]

Your old pal Birdie was just in here but he went away without commenting...

[anthonycea]

CBP is alright I guess, he is a member, he just can't ban me 3 or 4 times like he did at WPW :eek:

[Blogmaster]

and it goes on ... http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16137&perpage=20&pagenumber=2 sorry guys, but they are just ganging up on me, it's rediculous. GTech's post is a great example of what I have been noticing for a long time. No help comes out of RZ .. it is simply a way for editors to vent their frustrations. If you guys don't wanna get worked up, don't read it .. I am done instigating.

By the way: wowdirectory is one of my favs. And Bruce had been told by DMOZ editors that it will NEVER be listed :confused:

[Mia]

They got a good thing going and AOL will automate it one day as we discussed, just wait and see Minstrel.

The more pressure you put on them the faster the editors will all get fired and change will be made, because it is way past due at this point.

what?

You do realize that one owns the other right? It's all the same.. It's not like one just got some big contract with the other, or lucked out and is getting something they would not already get.

Anyway, the average person (net user) has no clue who D is, nor could they care. Either way I have no complaints since I only tried submitting a couple times only to find that most of my sites were already listed. How? Me thinks that many of the sites in DMOZ are not submitted by the authors :)

[Blogmaster]

I used to admire the ODP but now have lost every bit of respect I ever had. There is no need for anyone to invest energy into them ... they are going down and holding on to that little bit of power based on a dying image.

[Mia]

Just be sure to clarify that this is "Open Directory Project", not Office Depot.. Don't want to piss anyone off at that ODP camp :) Besides they are not going down, they are up around what .31 today?

I should really get some sleep now..

[minstrel]

Good idea, mia -- you're not making sense.

.31 what? and who? and who the heck mentioned Office Depot?

[Mia]

It is but a joke. "ODP" is the stock ticker for "Office Depot" (one of those mean nasty US corporations.)

.31 is a way of denoting currency. ".31" or 31 cents (US dollars of course). That (.31) is what the stock price was up today (well yesterday anyway.)

<post sacarcasm>

[minstrel]

I like Office Depot (Staples) -- didn't know it was also ODP.

[Blogmaster]

There are countless benefits coming out of being an editor. I am not saying they are all undeserved considering the work, but the "work for free" answer is a complete lie. You can become successful on the side simply by being an editor for the ODP and a lot of them don't have anything else going for themselves but that status they are cashing in on.

Did I mention how those fools make me tired :confused:

[Old Welsh Guy]

I am having all my submissions to a certain group blocked, as the editor is a competitor in the business. What can I do about it? Forget it and move on. The fact is that I am turning away mountains of work, and this guy 'couuld' have been getting some of it. His short sightedness is costing him money.

The sad bit is though that he submits sites to Skaffe where I edit, and I treat him like any other person (even moving sites to the correct cat and altering information, when by the rules (but not the spirit) I could simply reject it). I guess some people can detatch while others feel the need to wield their power to lift themselves up.

[Blogmaster]

DMOZ as it's operating now, is polluting search results by giving unfair advantages to web sites based on criterias other than quality.

[whateverusay]

PM me the URL's you are having problems with Welsh Guy and lets see if you are truly being blocked.

[Design Agent]

Multiple listings, spam by a certain editor, removal of my keywords from title and description. Dmoz left it like this for several years and never responded. Someone in this forum took action, informed dmoz and got rid of the corrupt editor.. the internet is becoming like the real world..its not what you know..its who.

[Blogmaster]

Got rid of 1 and many more to come. let's keep this going :) this one is going as well http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16137&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

[minstrel]

PM me the URL's you are having problems with Welsh Guy and let's see if you are truly being blocked.
Note the implication that OWG is either lying or mistaken. These guys just can't NOT respond in this way -- it must be that world-renowned DMOZ customer service training.

Oh, wait -- I forgot -- they're "just volunteers" so it's perfectly all right to be snotty.

[whateverusay]

No there is no implication that he is lying so lets not read into what I said too much. I ain't even an editor so BACK OFF. Save your editor bashing for editors.

If he want to know if he is blocked then let me have the URL(s) and I will check. Simple as that - nothing else. Do all forum contributors face this sort of backlash?

[minstrel]

If you're not an editor, what can you do that he himself or anyone else can't do in terms of checking?

As for reading into what you said, OWG said the sites are being blocked: What exactly does "PM me the URL's you are having problems with Welsh Guy and let's see if you are truly being blocked." mean, if not that you don't believe/trust what he says?

[whateverusay]

What the hell has it got to do with you what I can and can't do and even who I am?No I am no an editor but yes I have information available to me that you don't. What that is is not any of your business especially as I was not directing my offer at you.

As for being 'blocked' ODP can only block as a result or spamming submissions (block by IP address or email address etc etc). Having a red or yellow note or other form of editor note does not mean it is 'blocked'. There is a big difference and one I was going to help clear up by establishing what block is in place. ODP's blocking tools are not as good as they would have anyone think.

I wish I had not bothered to offer.

[minstrel]

Crusty, aren't you? And you still haven't answered the question.

[whateverusay]

what can you do that he himself or anyone else can't do in terms of checking?

Was answered withNo I am no an editor but yes I have information available to me that you don't.

if not that you don't believe/trust what he says?

Answered with Having a red or yellow note or other form of editor note does not mean it is 'blocked'. There is a big difference and one I was going to help clear up by establishing what block is in place.

Crusty???? Perhaps just extremely shocked at how you seem to be gunning for me for no apparent reason.

[SEbasic]

This is getting out of control guys...

DMOZ is fucked...

Leave it at that :)

[minstrel]

I'm not gunning for you -- I simply responded to your post where you implied that OWG was lying or mistaken and that somehow you're the only one who knows what's going on and then you went up in flames.

If you aren't a DMOZ editor, you should apply to be one. You'd fit right in.

[whateverusay]

You'd fit right in. Thanks but I don;t think that they would appreciate me giving out inside information about what sites do/dont have red notes and ither stuff they would rather not let you know.

[minstrel]

Now that's very interesting. DMOZ is now selling editor logins?

Who gets to buy these?

I don't think that they would appreciate me giving out inside information about what sites do/dont have red notes and other stuff they would rather not let you know.
But isn't that precisely what you offered to do above?

[whateverusay]

That is exactly what I offered to do.... something that the ODP would not appreciate me doing.... hence why they would not like me actually applying! If anyone want to know what ODP knows about a site then I will be only to pleased to share it.

[Blogmaster]

This is getting out of control guys...

DMOZ is fucked...

Leave it at that :)
They are still tainting overall search results and not turning away from their old ways. not even trying.

I said one more thing :D
http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16137&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

They are moderators there so the place it biased like most forums.

[Blogmaster]

Something ugly happened today:

I was on ihelpyouservices and participated in that thread which is being moderated by 2 DMOZ editors. I was being called a spammer and overreacted. I was also accused of being VegasMack and LasVegasHomes all in one.

I called the editors a name after being called a name and immediately they called Doug and he threatened to ban me if I do not edit my post.

My response was: Go ban me, your forum is old and has only 5 members on at a time 4 of which are dmoz editors.

he erased that response and banned me.


I deeply regret going down to that level. And Doug, if you read this, I am very sorry about my conduct.

However, Doug is also very judgmental in some ways while overlooking other things. When you allow someone to moderate your forum, you better make sure they have the right state of mind and personality. Connie is a cool moderator there but of course got inflamed by the editors. See her nice response followed by an ugly one?

So what I am saying is, don't stoop to their level.

ihelpyouservices is not a loss to me. They are talking about DMOZ should change but the reality is that their fear of losing power supercedes their desire to do the right thing.


I am in touch with some of the head editors right now. They do not like what is going on. They need all of our help. You guys can email me or staff@dmoz.org

The ones that you see are the small fish who have not much else going for themselves. Shawn is a dmoz editor and trust me ... you won't see him stoop down to that level, plus he has too much going on.

Once again, I regret having had everything come to this but I will rather be banned than censored while others are allowed to call me name.

Those are Nazi tactics which I cannot endorse or surrender to.

Ministrel and whateveryousay ... please make up guys :)

Take it up to the higher level and support those in the right state of mind.

DMOZ needs our help.

Thank you Shawn for this unbiased forum and everyone who supports freedom of speech and doing the right thing.

btw: the reason DMOZ editors were always mad at me is that over the past 5 years I have submitted my old site maybe 15 times without good content. I was not thinking. Is that unforgivable and giviing someone the right to call me a spammer?

I think not.

Anyways ... i love you guys ... take it up a level and do not worry about the small fish who are afraid of leaving the water.


peace,


Mike

[Bernard]

.. I am done instigating.OK. You admit that you are instigating.Something ugly happened today:I agree.I deeply regret going down to that level. IMO, you didn't move far from where you started. You really shouldn't be surprised at the reactions you received.

There is a difference in engaging people with a level head and a constructive attitute versus a chip on the shoulder and fire in the eyes.Connie is a cool moderator there but of course got inflamed by the editors. See her nice response followed by an ugly one?Connie is a he.... please make up guysSensible advice. Do you practice what you advise?this unbiased forum and everyone who supports freedom of speech and doing the right thing.I was treated not much differently from you right here in this forum when commenting on the rel=nofollow attribute vis-a-vis the coop network - and I was much more level headed, non-accusatory, non-judgemental and non-confrontational than you were on this issue!... the small fish who are afraid of leaving the water ...If this is in reference to your rant about IHY moderators not participating in other forums, you are wrong. ;)

[asiamajor]

I've been lurking for a while, yet following the recent DMOZ train-wrecks with interest. DMOZ is already irrelevant, and if they maintain present course, they will become a mere footnote in internet history. Perhaps they already are.

The purpose of DMOZ was to expedite listing requests by opening up the editorial process to webmasters, and those who were interested in editing pet subjects. This is because Yahoo! were too slow at same.

This isn't what DMOZ is today.

Today, DMOZ is a small club of people making up their own rules about what DMOZ is so they can ensure their own positions. They are unanswerable and unaccountable.

That is all very well if they were paying their own way. But they aren't. DMOZ is owned and paid for by AOL/Time Warner.

If AOL think they're providing a public good with DMOZ, then they need to be made aware of the public relations disaster the current DMOZ administration is causing for them. No one, other than those with vested interests, has a good word to say about DMOZ. DMOZ are widely despised by the one group who makes the most use of their offering: webmasters.

The sad thing is, the editors have no real power, except over submitters and other editors. The metas do not have the power to change the way DMOZ runs because they too are being ignored by the (very) few paid AOL employee(s). There may just be only one now. The thing has been forgotten about.

If Webmasters have problems with DMOZ, I suggest that they ignore the worthless RZ entirely and go straight to the source of power. Go to AOL/Time Warner. Email them and tell them how annoyed you are that a public resource AOL is paying for has been taken over by a small group of people who are making little or no effort to fulfill the social contract, and that this situation is causing widespread resentment and ill feeling amongst the webmaster community.

Time for a shake-up. The present administration has failed and should step down. The more webmasters do this, the more likely AOL will take action to manage the public relations nightmare.

That is the only way to hold the DMOZ powers-that-be accountable and effect change.

PS: Webmasters rule the web. DMOZ don't.

[Blogmaster]

Well said Bernard. However it started in the RZ. And one of the present parties is a fellow moderator of yours named spectragunner. He moderates the DMOZ thread in IHY. The other moderator is dmoz editor as well. Noone comes to IHY anomore because it is too biased. You have talked about the co-op but you were not ganged up on. By the way I didn't participate in it.

I see Doug call names all of the time, anything from scum of the earth to worse. he is referring to spammers but my concern are not those but people protecting those who are in power and do wrong.

You don't want to ever have a public forum get out of balance and be too one sided.
I for example agreed with your coop remarks but out of respect to this place did not respond. I didn't make up lies or attack you or try to discredit you either.

I am not about who is right but what is right.

We are not in charge the search engines are. And DMOZ is polluting the results, actually the bad editors are - the majority which contains of lazy, arrogant, self serving and/or corrupt members.

The conduct of your fellow mods has examplified it. If you start ganging up on someone like that, you cannot be trusted with being unbiased.

I regret my conduct but will not be quiet when being talked to the way I was.

Noone ever should be.

Doug made a difference with rubberstamped.org but that was only a band aide.
otherwise the forum is telling people things are being done when in reality they are not.

people are sick of being lied to. Have your own mind and stand up for what you know.

You seem to do so, I wished a lot more people would.

[Bernard]

Mike, if all your recent posts were as thought out and eloquent as this last one, I doubt I would be addressing you right now.

The only reason I was not ganged up on in the coop thread is because someone (sorry, it's been a while since it happened and I don't remember who it was) shouted out in my defense and "quieted the jackals".

IMO, every forum is biased to one degree or another on any given issue. It is the nature of communities that members will gravitate to the ones they are most comfortable in.

When you attack a member of a tight knit community, you will see the community rally to support the attacked. This is true of internet forums as well as any other settings where friends gather.

Doug made a difference with rubberstamped - yes. I was told privately by at least one ODP editor at the start of that circus that Skrenta walked on water and nothing would be done. He was the most untouchable of "the untouchables". Funny though... his actions were not taken lightly or ignored.

If whateveryousay (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=8327&page=1&pp=10) is to be believed (post #8), the ODP is losing the honest, active metas/editors that it did have over the issue - and don't kid yourself, the ODP is (or at least was) full of stand-up, honest folks.

The ODP keeps claiming that they will handle cases of abuse that are reported. The few issues that I am aware of, that were reported, have been taken care of. So far, I have seen little to get huffy about with regards the ODP. BTW, I was not always of this frame of mind. If you cared to, you could read some rather scathing posts I made with regards to the ODP several years ago at IHY. Over time, I have come to understand the other side of the coin. Perhaps I have the benefit of not ever encountering a corrupt editor, but I have met (virtually via forums) many and none of the ones I know (including spectregunner) deserve to be painted with the broad brush that is so easy to slap around.

Everyone's blanket criticisms of ODP editors as currupt, self-interested, power hungry toads does nothing to encourage honest folk to donate their time at the ODP. It is counter-productive when you look at the big picture.

[asiamajor]

This is DigitalPoint, and this thread is about DMOZ. IHY has a history of siding with the powers that be, so I wouldn't apologize to them, sitetutor. The only way IHY get attention from the webmaster community these days is when they venture into other forums and talk about themselves.

If webmasters have issues with DMOZ, then approach Time/Warner directly. DMOZ metas do not have the power or desire to make the changes necessary.

[Old Welsh Guy]

HI Whateveryousay,

thanks for the offer of help, but there is nothing to be checked or done. Sorry if the word 'blocked' had some semantec relevance as an official DMOZ word. What was happening is that all my submissions were being 'ignored, binned', call it what you will. The editor in question is a good editor as far as it goes, they clean submissions no problem.

We ran a test, I submitted one site, a friend submitted another, theirs (mine submitted by them) was approved, mine just didn't appear they were of course different sites not duplicates, and both equally acceptable under the submission guidelines. This happened 3 times, I think that is proof enough. I contacted the editor via DMOZ, and got no reply. Honestly I can see no way that I am misreading the position. When I asked a 'friend' to look, I was told off the record that my sites were not pending, nor were they approved. Draw your own conclusions.

It is not an ideal situation, but hpefully Google will either buy ODP from netscape, or blow it out of the water. I am sure there are enough trusted people to build a quality resource.

[Las Vegas Homes]

I've been lurking for a while, yet following the recent DMOZ train-wrecks with interest. DMOZ is already irrelevant, and if they maintain present course, they will become a mere footnote in internet history. Perhaps they already are.

The purpose of DMOZ was to expedite listing requests by opening up the editorial process to webmasters, and those who were interested in editing pet subjects. This is because Yahoo! were too slow at same.

This isn't what DMOZ is today.

Today, DMOZ is a small club of people making up their own rules about what DMOZ is so they can ensure their own positions. They are unanswerable and unaccountable.

That is all very well if they were paying their own way. But they aren't. DMOZ is owned and paid for by AOL/Time Warner.

If AOL think they're providing a public good with DMOZ, then they need to be made aware of the public relations disaster the current DMOZ administration is causing for them. No one, other than those with vested interests, has a good word to say about DMOZ. DMOZ are widely despised by the one group who makes the most use of their offering: webmasters.

The sad thing is, the editors have no real power, except over submitters and other editors. The metas do not have the power to change the way DMOZ runs because they too are being ignored by the (very) few paid AOL employee(s). There may just be only one now. The thing has been forgotten about.

If Webmasters have problems with DMOZ, I suggest that they ignore the worthless RZ entirely and go straight to the source of power. Go to AOL/Time Warner. Email them and tell them how annoyed you are that a public resource AOL is paying for has been taken over by a small group of people who are making little or no effort to fulfill the social contract, and that this situation is causing widespread resentment and ill feeling amongst the webmaster community.

Time for a shake-up. The present administration has failed and should step down. The more webmasters do this, the more likely AOL will take action to manage the public relations nightmare.

That is the only way to hold the DMOZ powers-that-be accountable and effect change.

PS: Webmasters rule the web. DMOZ don't.

All I can say is you are 100% RIGHT..contact AOL not dmoz. Maybe if we get a larger percentage of ethical editors in dmoz, then all those editors that are using dmoz as their own little serps machine will be told to hit the road and their listings gone with them.

[minstrel]

That is exactly what I offered to do.... something that the ODP would not appreciate me doing.... hence why they would not like me actually applying! If anyone want to know what ODP knows about a site then I will be only to pleased to share it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by whateverusay : Today at 12:41 PM.
For those of you who missed this thread before whateverusay edited this post, he indicated that he bought a DMOZ editor's login from "a website before it went out of business".

I find that of more than passing interest.

[Solicitors Mortgages]

there must surely be some kind of underhanded behaviour, not everybody is a saint, or joined DMOZ purely for the love of the internet. however i have decided to no longer criticize the editors of dmoz, it must be tedious work responding to the same old questions time and time again, and yet people still keep doing things like re-submitting every 5 mins, and a lot of spam surely gets submitted also. the problem is not with the editors, but with the entire system. there really shouldn't be a forum, then we dont need to see either agressive editors OR pissed off submitters. the sooner they either get an e-mail system in place,,,or simply have nothing, the better. (ie like google where you just submit, and they crawl when they feel like it)
there are some hardworking editors for sure, otherwise nothing would make it ever...
and also a lot of people who waste all their time and effort running un-necessary forums.

[Blogmaster]

For those of you who missed this thread before whateverusay edited this post, he indicated that he bought a DMOZ editor's login from "a website before it went out of business".

I find that of more than passing interest.
I believe it could be.

[VegasMack]

If DMOZ really cares about public perception, they should dump the ironically-named "resource zone" -- it's a joke -- non-editors go there to ask questions about the status of their sites and editors respond with condescension, rudeness, and arrogance -- not a good advertisement for DMOZ.

Then again, if DMOZ really cares about service to the internet community, they should just dump DMOZ.Very well said (wish I had thought of it).

~VegasMack

[Blogmaster]

If someone finds the right phone number of the right people to contact at AOL/Time Warner, please list it here or PM me.

I want to place it on my Dmoz fan page (http://www.realestateforum.com/dmoz.html) :)

[SportsOutlaw]

non-editors go there to ask questions about the status of their sites and editors respond with condescension, rudeness, and arrogance -- not a good advertisement for DMOZ.

.

I found my way to the resourse forum after applying to become an editor. After glancing through the posts, I see alot of this, and it is very disturbing. I was also hit by this in my question about becoming an editor. It seems these editors are very "full of themselves". (and I realize that not all of them are that way, but there are enough acting this way on that forum to make you think that the majority of them are way to "full of themselves")

[Blogmaster]

There are some good editors out there, and I refuse to taint them because of the idiots. hutcheson is a nazi http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12651&page=10&pp=15

he is a nobody. people like that should be alienated by their own kind and placed where they belong: somewhere all alone with noone having to listen to them.


It's revenge of the geeks guys, attempted revenge. I have made friends with some DMOZ editors but still : the bad ones are allowed to be so vocal at this point, there is no way it can be tolerated.
This is a good example to why people become DMOZ editors: http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2084&posted=1#post2084

I wanna challenge Hutchenson to reveal his sites. I bet when I will do a backlink check, there will be sites linking to him and being listed in DMOZ without meeting the standards of being listed in there.

[nullbit]

I've had a lot of success applying as an editor, and including one of my own sites in the suggestion fields (as well as several unlisted, high quality sites, I don't own).

My editor application has always been denied, but often they will include my listings to the directory.

It only works if put effort into your application form (especially the site suggestions), and you get a sympathetic editor.

[SEbasic]

This sums it up for me...
http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25911

October 20th, until December 7th just to get...The submission has been received and is awaiting review.Fuck it... I don't care.

[Bernard]

For most people, the status is: awaiting editor review.

At this point there is absolutely nothing you can do to speed up the process, or to get a better timeline. We can’t tell you when it will get looked at because we don’t know when it will be looked at and have no way of finding out when it will get looked at. It may be in two hours, it may be two months, it may be two years, and it could be close to infinity.The value of a simple status check is, well, very simple. When I know the true status of my submission, then I know what to do - if I should resubmit, keep waiting, or if my site is already in a different category.

In the latter case, since DMOZ search is usually broken, how else would I know?You wouldn't.

When we started giving status checks, that was what we envisioned -- what we didn't envision was that some people began to ask for daily status checks -- and got nasty when we would not provide them. Then we codified the monthly check -- and had a constant battle with people who wanted earlier checks and simply would not take no as an answer.
ODP Essay: Resource Zone 101 (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17888)

[whateverusay]

insidedmoz.00freehost.com was the site I was on about (editor logins for sale). It ain't the same one but it is surely by the same person (probably the corrupteditor/nmoz author). See I was not imagining it!

[Blogmaster]

How much did you pay? :D

[whateverusay]

$47 via PP. I got the impression that I was one of two or three who got them at the same time as the instruction PM I got was kind of a 'generic' one. I also got sent to me a copy of the original welcome to ODP email and a hotmail account login that was used for the application. I have changed the email address and password though for obvious reasons.

[Blogmaster]

I guess with so many editors and so many logins they have completely lost control

[whateverusay]

they have completely lost control

Too true.

One thing has become very clear in my little time looking inside their forums are that only a relatively small part the 'community' actually use the forums. The forums are very busy and everytime you refresh a page there are new posts that you have missed but when you consider how many editors there are meant to be then it is clear that a lot of them sit on the side lines without posting. It always seems to be the same "bunch" of editors who reply to questions. Just like the RZ I suppose.

[Blogmaster]

Yeh 90% of editors are not even logging in or getting involved at all unless they want their own site or a clients' (friends') site to get listed.

The boneheads with no lives are always there ... funny cause they keep talking about how busy they are

[minstrel]

Many of the ones in the Resourceless Zone also are the same ones who pop into other webmaster forums to chime in to defend DMOZ...

I would agree that their time could be put to better use actually doing the work (volunteer or not) they're supposed to be doing or (God forbid) implementing some of the suggestions they spend so much time telling us can't be implemented in those other forums.

[Bernard]

Minstrel, AFAIK, DMOZ only has 1 or 2 programmers (paid AOL/TW staff) who can implement any changes to the scripts/system. Volunteer editors cannot implement any changes themselves.

Your criticisms regarding DMOZ editors use of time in posting in forums could easily be applied to everyone who participates in forums.

[minstrel]

I'm not holding anyone up by the time I spend in forums, bernard. As for editors not being able to implement anything, (1) I'm sure you're correct -- I wouldn't trust most of them to turn off the lights; and (2) my point was they should spend more time adding sites and less time defending why they are too busy to add them.

[Blogmaster]

I agree we have heard the "suffering" talk for so long, it gets old. Everytime on RZ or some other forums, they are crying about how hard their lives are. Noone wants to hear it anymore. Nobody believes it after so many lights have been shined into what is really going on behind closed doors.

Noone respects DMOZ anymore, that includes the good editors, the bad ones seem to not even respect themselves according to their conduct.

[Bernard]

I'm not holding anyone up by the time I spend in forums, ...IMO, there are many false assumptions laden in that statement: editors owe anyone an obligation to review their site submitted sites will only be reviewed by editors who participate in forums submitted sites are listable editor's time participating in forums is a driving factor in delaying the review of any given submitted siteThere may be some overlap there, but you get the idea (hopefully).

[minstrel]

Oh, I get the idea, all right.

More DMOZ smokescreen for "yes, we agree the system is hopelessly flawed but we'll never admit it and we'll never fix it either".

You've also missed the most important part of what I said:

my point was they should spend more time adding sites and less time defending why they are too busy to add them

[Bernard]

Reading your posts, I get the impression that you believe that all ODP editors should be site reviewing automatons spending every moment of their free time working on the ODP. Do you presume to judge how people should spend their free time? Do you apply the same standards and criticisms to yourself and everyone else who particpates here at DP with regards to their time management and perceived obligations?

[minstrel]

Reading your posts, I get the impression that you believe that all ODP editors should be site reviewing automatons spending every moment of their free time working on the ODP. Do you presume to judge how people should spend their free time? Do you apply the same standards and criticisms to yourself and everyone else who particpates here at DP with regards to their time management and perceived obligations?
This is a typical DMOZ stance, Bernard -- obfuscation.

Look, let me say this for the last time -- I don't know why it's such a difficult thing for you to understand:

my point was they should spend more time adding sites and less time defending why they are too busy to add them
I don't give a rat's a** how much time DMOZ editors spend on forums, watching TV, or sitting on the toilet. I don't personally care what they do at all. Just please spare all of us the incessant defensive condescending BS whenever anyone makes a comment or offers a criticism of the way things are done or a suggestion for improving something about DMOZ.

[daboss]

if the system/scripts in dmoz is so flawed and backward, why not get help in improving it? i'm sure many many many people will be more than willing to contribute time and expertise to help improve it.

you hear from the editors about how they have to work within the parameters that limit them - why not just improve the damn thing? or is the system/scripts kept retarded as an excuse and an entry barrier?

[Old Welsh Guy]

If the ODP was not the Google directory, I doubt many would give it a second thought. I know for fact that the bulk of submissions to DMOZ are spam, many more are not submitted properly, more still are unsuitable, while only a small % are suitable sites, described properly and within the submission guidelines.

What people don't realise though is that all submissions deserve to be treated the same. IMO ODP should start charging for submission. The amount is irrelevant, it is the mechanics of it that will help. You can't autosubmit to a paid inclusion (not on a grand scale available to the masses anyhow) If ther was a charge, then people would not submit 100's of identical sites (because they do now). This would cut down on the spam so much, that eventually there might not be a backlog, and editors would not get depressed everytime they log on.

This action would not remove some of the arrogant, ignorant editors, but it would surely lower the tension towards them. People like that exist in all walks of life, and there will always be their type who poke fun and relish the feeling of power over others. Sad but true, there is nothing that can be done.

[daboss]

owg, that's what i mean - why doesn't dmoz want to implement some of these improvements???

[minstrel]

See this thread dating back to November-December 2003 (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=7646)... just in case anyone thinks any of the crap spewed by those DMOZ editors at RZ is anything new.

[joeychgo]

no, its far from new.

[Blogmaster]

it's been going on forever and it's really getting old. And Minstrel is right, it is the insults combined with the constant whining that we have been witnessing for years now. People become editors for a reason and then they seem to forget. Apply or don't ...

[Bernard]

This is a typical DMOZ stance, Bernard -- obfuscation.

We have different definitions of obfuscation then. I understood your point. You apparently did not understand mine.

I don't give a rat's a** how much time DMOZ editors spend on forums, watching TV, or sitting on the toilet. I don't personally care what they do at all. Just please spare all of us the incessant defensive condescending BS whenever anyone makes a comment or offers a criticism of the way things are done or a suggestion for improving something about DMOZ.

Right... Does "incessant BS" = anything that you do not agree with? I'm the one being condescending?

[SEbasic]

Talking about DMOZ is a waste of Shawn's bandwidth.

There are bigger fish to fry.

This thread should have died ages ago.

[Blogmaster]

If I may say one more thing without starting an argument:

There are many grey areas in life but some things are plain right or wrong. What is going on at resource zone is wrong!

There is no excuse in the world which can despute and belittle that.

A lot of words of reasoning get taken as a defense since their bahaviour is undefendable.

I think everyone needs to be careful who to associate themselves with. A lot of the good editors are staying far away from RZ.

They are ashamed of what is going on. So why is it going on?

[minstrel]

I don't give a rat's a** how much time DMOZ editors spend on forums, watching TV, or sitting on the toilet. I don't personally care what they do at all. Just please spare all of us the incessant defensive condescending BS whenever anyone makes a comment or offers a criticism of the way things are done or a suggestion for improving something about DMOZ.
Right... Does "incessant BS" = anything that you do not agree with? I'm the one being condescending?
1. I'm going to assume you know what and where the Resourceless Zone is and that you've read at least one or two of the threads there.

2. I'm going to also assume that you know the definition of "incessant BS" well enough to have seen page after page of it at RZ.

3. I'm going to also assume that you don't realize that everytime you open your forum mouth you prove my point about the DMOZ gang.

[SportsOutlaw]

well folks, not to make myself out to be anything special, but I simply do not understand why DMOZ declined my submission to become an editor. My site is already in DMOZ and has been for quite some time. My site is ranking well in the search engines. I applied for a section that should be very popular, and there are tons of sites out there that concentrate on the field.

I really dont mind getting rejected, but I think for something that claims to be "humanly edited", I think it is pretty cheesy that the reason for my decline was left totally blank. The reviewer chose to not give a reason for me not being accepted. What kind of crap is that? If something is done by humans, I would expect for that area to have a reson, not left blank. I can understand generic responses from automated stuff.

[anthonycea]

DMOZ is just like Google, if they do not want you in the Search index you will not be there, there is no equal opportunity for everyone.


There are different reasons some sites are kept out of the SERP's or a directory depending on what resource it is.

In DMOZ's case it could be that the editor is a competitor or just does not care that much about adding quality sites anymore.

[SportsOutlaw]

Well, you just pointed out the problem that everyone is complainng about.......

The site is humanly edited. If editors are keeping sites out, or potential editors out because they dont want competition, that is a huge problem and discredits the whole "humanly edited" basis they are going on.

Not saying that is what is going on, but if what you say is actually happening, that is a big problem.

[Salamander]

personally i am new to this game but learning more and more all the time.

I have heard so much about this gang and witnessed the antics myself.

Such a shame that it goes this way and in the end, its of no benefit to no-one.

All you can do is do what you can as, in the end, what goes around comes around

Salamander

[minstrel]

AC, this isn't really about whether or not a particular site is listed, or even about whether a particular site is justly or unjustly excluded or justly or unjustly listed. It's about the wall of secrecy, arrogance, and condescension that surrounds DMOZ and pervades the hallowed cyberhalls of the editors.

It's a private club. It acts exactly like a private club. The problem is that they claim to be something different. The name "Open Directory Project" is a pathetic joke.

[Blogmaster]

My problem is not so much the RZ. It is not so much about DMOZ. It is about the fact that those involved with DMOZ are carrying over their agendas to well known forums. The minute I went onto the thread that Minstrel has shown us, another clone appeared and commented trying to character assassinate me. my response is pretty good there and calm and of course he has not yet responded.

DMOZ is living on the image from the past even though the current situations have changed.

[minstrel]

That was CBP (I understand he and Anthony are buddies). He's now a moderator at WPW in addition to being a DMOZ editor-- he has a huge blind spot when it comes to DMOZ but in other respects is actually quite a reasonable and usually intelligent chap.

[SportsOutlaw]

Well, here is the transcript of my attempt to become an editor for this "project"

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33286

I guess I am to just assume that the generic response of "self promotion" is the reason, since I am only already listed in the category I am applying for, and I rank very well in the major search engines.
I am annoyed at the fact I waisted my time on trying to be involved with this nonsense.

[Blogmaster]

Ministrel I understand and have no doubt about that. So are Doug's moderators at Ihelpyou who are DMOZ editors. All I can say is this: If you sleep with dogs, someone else will dislike you for passing on fleas. Don't let me get banned here too :rolleyes: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=198016#198016

[whateverusay]

Another long term and well respected editor suddenly 'leaves' after recent events within the ODP. The cracks just keep coming.

[SEbasic]

ST - I gotta say...

This is a battle you aren't going to win... This is all a moot point really - I mean, will it ever change?

And even if it does, will it be as a result of you pissing of a whole bunch of editors?

[anthonycea]

AOL will fire all the editors soon and replace them with automation, just watch and see, as far as Birdie/CBP is concerned he is a blot on the forum circuit and WPW and ODP.

Plus you will never see him even list one of his URL's or websites on any forum, folks like that should never be given the power of a moderator (censor/propagandist) on any forum that has editorial integrity which WPW does not have.

[Blogmaster]

oh ... he is birdie? he keeps coming into this thread once in a while just to look - anyways, I'm done with DMOZ ... it's pointless!

[Bernard]

1. I'm going to assume you know what and where the Resourceless Zone is and that you've read at least one or two of the threads there.

2. I'm going to also assume that you know the definition of "incessant BS" well enough to have seen page after page of it at RZ.

3. I'm going to also assume that you don't realize that everytime you open your forum mouth you prove my point about the DMOZ gang. I have read 2 threads at RZ following discussions that interested me from other forums. I have never registered or participated there. I have read enough about the situation to see that there are two sides to the coin - one of which detractors such as yourself rarely acknowledge. Your comment about incessant BS was directed at me, not the RZ. My comments are my own and not copied from the RZ, so I can only conclude that you are being extremely rude. Why am I not surprised that an apology was not forthcoming? condescending - displaying a patronizingly superior attitude.

[minstrel]

Your comment about incessant BS was directed at me, not the RZ.
No. That comment was directed at DMOZ in general and the RZ in particular.

However, if the shoe fits...

[Blogmaster]

It gets very old. Why anyone would defend their side is beyond me. They do more than enough on RZ and I think they don't need any more help...just MO

And about some forums ... it reminds me of when Rick Schwartz from erealesate (Porn domain master) sent his clones into afternic.com to attack his enemies.


If you want to live your life being someone's instrument or mouthpiece, choose wisely.

Just some general piece of advice for anyone who loves to cut and paste generic ODP answers vs giving his true opinions or shining some light from a different angle.

A good editor just left the ODP ... a really good one.

it is sad to see the clowns running it now. How anyone can be so obsessed with defending them is beyond me.

Once again they can have their RZ but how someone can go into an open forum and try to make us understand them better ... i do not understand it :confused:

[anthonycea]

Bernard and Minstrel, you guys are both intelligent members here and both friends of mine, but in the last few days it seems that things are getting personal.

Man you guys are both too good to discuss anything but issues and it seems that it is going beyond that of late.

I value both of your opinions and count you both as great members of DP, stay friends man, you guys have no reason to have a go at each other.

This is about DMOZ guys...............

[minstrel]

This is about DMOZ guys
Yes, it is entirely about DMOZ, for me anyway. As I said, Bernard, you are mistaken -- I did not aim that comment at you but at The Resourceless Zone.

[SportsOutlaw]

word to the wise. Dont voice your displeasure about the lack of information the DMOZ folks give you. You just might get banned from there like I have appeared to have been.

Im assuming I was banned. Never have been banned from a forum before and it tells my I dont have access to view anything. Of course, I got no email or anything stating anything about whether I was or not. Gee, kind of like the lack of explanation regarding becoming an editor.

[anthonycea]

Your not missing anything :cool:

[Blogmaster]

word to the wise. Dont voice your displeasure about the lack of information the DMOZ folks give you. You just might get banned from there like I have appeared to have been.

Im assuming I was banned. Never have been banned from a forum before and it tells my I dont have access to view anything. Of course, I got no email or anything stating anything about whether I was or not. Gee, kind of like the lack of explanation regarding becoming an editor.
That is why they get away with their conduct

[minstrel]

But what have you really been banned from? Basically, aggravation.

[SportsOutlaw]

Yeah, I was basicall done in that forum, just wanted to check and see if the super powers within that staff had decided to give any kind of realistic explanations.

Guess it is all for the best, I had waisted enough time in there over the past week.

[minstrel]

Nope. They banned you and locked the thread:

February 21, 2005, 12:11 AM

sportsoutlaw
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8

Well, so much for trying to join this project. I got kicked to the curb, and what was really classy is the reviewer who refused me didnt even have the courtesy to give comments. Just left that part blank.

The generic list of possible reasons is pretty pathetic. Self promotion? Why would I do that? I already have top 5 listings in the big 3 search engines. Im sure that isnt the reason, but the least you folks could do is leave us with something to work with if you are going to reject us.

I wouldnt post this on the forum, rather I would prefer to comment privately, but good luck finding out who to voice complaints to.
February 21, 2005, 02:44 AM

motsa
Glinda the Good Witch
Meta Administrator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,819

I got kicked to the curb, and what was really classy is the reviewer who refused me didnt even have the courtesy to give comments. Just left that part blank.
If there are no personal comments, then one or more of the general reasons applied to your application.
February 22, 2005, 10:42 PM
sportsoutlaw
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8

If there are no personal comments, then one or more of the general reasons applied to your application.
Well, that clears it all up.

Thanks for all the generic input folks. What a joke.
February 23, 2005, 10:59 AM
Alucard
Member
Editall/Catmv Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
Posts: 2,462

The problem is (for the benefit of others reading this) that only the meta that dealt with the application knows the process and logic of why a particular editor was accepted or denied in their application.

So by definition, unless you happen to have the applicable meta reading this thread (and many metas don't), the only thing that anyone can expect from RZ is this sort of general advice.

We don't have crystal balls... sorry.
__________________

These opinions are from a volunteer editor, and do not constitute an official ODP statement. Private messages asking for submission status or preferential treatment will be ignored.

[Blogmaster]

This is a question of continuence ... not just ethics. Only the good will survive!


Mike

[Will.Spencer]

There are some good editors out there, and I refuse to taint them because of the idiots. hutcheson is a nazi http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12651&page=10&pp=15

he is a nobody. people like that should be alienated by their own kind and placed where they belong: somewhere all alone with noone having to listen to them.


It's revenge of the geeks guys, attempted revenge. I have made friends with some DMOZ editors but still : the bad ones are allowed to be so vocal at this point, there is no way it can be tolerated.
This is a good example to why people become DMOZ editors: http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2084&posted=1#post2084

I wanna challenge Hutchenson to reveal his sites. I bet when I will do a backlink check, there will be sites linking to him and being listed in DMOZ without meeting the standards of being listed in there.


This is most amusing to me, because this "hutcheson" is currently attempting to wave his little prick at me.

His ResourceZone profile has no information on him, so I went to Google and Google brought me to this thread.

[Blogmaster]

This is very sad and we must work on finding a solution with those guys, too many good DMOZ editors and too many good webmasters are here who are willing to connect to make things work.

[minstrel]

Just back-reading this thread a bit to remind myself of the content, I found this that I'd overlooked before:

February 23, 2005, 10:59 AM
Alucard
Member
Editall/Catmv Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
Posts: 2,462

We don't have... balls... sorry.
Hope this helps :D

[Blogmaster]

Hey guys, let's make this count. This thread should not be used for anything like
"My site does not get listed".
It is about a major problem going on that is a lot bigger than individual web sites.
Things are esclating and a positive solution needs to be found for all
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=149589#post149589

[minstrel]

What happened to this post? From my email notification:

Hello minstrel,

Alucard has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - DMOZ - a test of ethics - in the Directories forum of Digital Point Forums.

This thread is located at:
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=8327&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Minstrel, I have no problem with you quoting me, and having some fun at my expense if you want, but I would appreciate you maybe giving the reference, so people can see what I *really* said....

For anyone who cares, here it is: http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33286

Just one small word difference. :D

Thanks.

Alucard, first, I did quote and reference the entire statement above. In the later post, I did what good editors always do: I removed the superfluous words to distill it down to its essential meaning for the readers of this forum.

[Alucard]

What happened was that I read back and saw that you had quoted the original earlier, and therefore my post was completely surperfluous, and the humour obvious. Hence, as it added no value to the conversation, I deleted it.

..and if that's what you think a "good" editor does, there are some newspapers with whom I'm sure you could get a very good job ;)

FTR, I laughed when I read what you wrote, and was curious to find out just how you got from what I said to what you wrote.

Good one!

[minstrel]

if that's what you think a "good" editor does, there are some newspapers with whom I'm sure you could get a very good job
I agree -- I'm not a fan of journalism -- I don't think reporters report anymore: they editorialize and disguise it as reporting. At least Michael Moore, as annoying as he is, doesn't pretend to be unbiased.

TR, I laughed when I read what you wrote
Good to see you still have a sense of humor! :D

[Design Agent]

Ok, Guys, I dont mean to interrupt this thread.. and I havent read it, but I have a good idea of what it about. I have only been a member since nov, but the amount of time spent on these dmoz threads.. there have been a couple running concurrently for a few days at least, is far too much.

If all the contributers dedicated the time spent on these threads to making a whole new directory. Im sure with the talent in here it would be very powerful and from what I have seen of dp will be like a snowball rolling down a hill.

I cant search on google anymore for any web/ seo info without finding dp come up somewhere in the results. So, do something constructive. I think if there was a rival to dmoz it would have to improve and you would all get your wish. :D

[minstrel]

the amount of time spent on these dmoz threads.. there have been a couple running concurrently for a few days at least, is far too much
Hey... no one is forcing anyone to read them. Just unsubscribe to stop the notifications.

As I said to sitetutor when he said no one was interested, if that were true, why are so many people reading and replying to them? Not only here but on ANY forum where one is started?

[Design Agent]

Its not that Im not interested, i just figured you could have more effect, as Will Spencer mentioned in either this or the 'other' thread.

I submit to dmoz and leave it, then persue other avenues.