Robbed by paypal

[damircea]

Hey! Don't take this like a complaint, I just want some suggestions. I was robbed by paypal. Recently, I made an exchange to someone here on the forum. He wanted e-gold and paid paypal for it.
Ok, we made a deal for about 115$ paypal. He sent the paypal, I sent the e-gold, everything was ok.
After some hours, a dispute appeared. Oh gosh ... they blocked my money (for a while I thought).
I tried to call them bla bla ... they were telling me that the other party's respond is waited.
Now, when I checked my e-mail I saw that all the money were refunded to the payer!!!!
What theeee??? What can I do now?

[AaRGeE]

Well there is nothing now you can do ..
Thats where Paypal Sux .. the guy who sent you Paypal just scammed .. now all you can do is bring him down if you can.

[damircea]

So paypal helps scammers

[World_Peace]

You are really confusing..

Who bought what and who paid what to who?

First clear this thing..

[wisdomtool]

I don't see anything to do with paypal. They are just doing payment processing, you were scammed by the one you exchanged E-Gold with.

[damircea]

I am an exchanger
I sold e-gold. I requested paypal instead of it.
So for about 105 e-gold, I charged 115$ paypal.
He gave me the paypal, I gave him e-gold.
It's called exchange between e-currencies.

[damircea]

I don't see anything to do with paypal. They are just doing payment processing, you were scammed by the one you exchanged E-Gold with.

How come? Paypal gave him the money back. The inquiry was done by paypal , not him!

[AaRGeE]

How come? Paypal gave him the money back. The inquiry was done by paypal , not him!

cause he files the dispute with "Unauthorised Account Access"
In this .. Paypal Reverse the money without even asking to seller ...

[damircea]

But they are insane ... they don't realize that they help the scammers? They are fooled by the scammers!

[wisdomtool]

He can give whatever reasons he has, as an exchanger you should know the risks of doing e-currency exchange online. Or rather the risk of trading online on the Internet. When you use paypal, you agree to their TOS, they based on their TOS to refund the other party. They didn't keep your money. No reason to say they are robbing you.

How come? Paypal gave him the money back. The inquiry was done by paypal , not him!

[AaRGeE]

But they are insane ... they don't realize that they help the scammers? They are fooled by the scammers!

as i told earlier .. Paypal Sux in this matter .. but somehow it may help you as well when you act as a buyer!!

Paypal disallows any digital products transactions strongly. (Currency exchange comes under it)

[damircea]

Ok, they are not robbing me, they are accomplice! Yes, they have to refund and that's so good because there are many scammers on the internet, but they shouldn't refund so easy, they must investigate deeper before doing these. What were the based on? Only some words ... no documents, no print screens, nothing! F***** paypal.

[eddy2099]

You do know that currency exchanges as what you are doing is strictly prohibited by Paypal, right ? Because you really have no case here. You broke your contractual agreement by violating the acceptable usage policy which you agreed to when you sign up.

If you ignored reading those earlier, make sure you do read them now before you start breaking more terms of your contract.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside

[wisdomtool]

I was trying to find this clause, thanks! You really know Paypal inside out :)

You do know that currency exchanges as what you are doing is strictly prohibited by Paypal, right ? Because you really have no case here. You broke your contractual agreement by violating the acceptable usage policy which you agreed to when you sign up.

If you ignored reading those earlier, make sure you do read them now before you start breaking more terms of your contract.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside

[damircea]

So there's nothing left to do ... just to find the scammer and beat the **** out of him. Does anybody know this yahoo messenger id: rlbhopal ? It's and Indian which likes playing at the casino and has some forums / blogs related to this subject.

[viitols]

I think it's called money laundering...
And yea, paypal and ebay are destroying themselves...

[wisdomtool]

Money laundering? How does this fits in this case? I don't see how Paypal is destroying itself, it is growing from strength to strength and is the most popular payment method on the Internet. Ebay had a great 1st quarter financial results and though it erred by buying Skype it had done fantastically well otherwise.

I think it's called money laundering...
And yea, paypal and ebay are destroying themselves...

[goforhunt]

Buddy, There is nothing which can be done now, he has scammed you.
And paypal always is on buyer side, other thing which has been mentioned, none of the money processors aloow exchanges legally, so you can't claim it.

Be careful in future

[getjimmy]

He must have charged back with his bank and in this case paypal always reverse the money.

[jackass2007]

Why are you blaming Paypal ? Paypal is not robbing anything, you're scammed !!

[damircea]

Why are you blaming Paypal ? Paypal is not robbing anything, you're scammed !!
I am blaming paypal because they didn't investigate the case so much and they often help the scammers. They just believe everything the buyer says. Idiots...
And you know what's funny? :D This was just a little deal. I was pretty lucky ... the scammer wanted about 1000$ e-gold but I didn't have so much at that time. Imagine if I was scammed with 1K$ . . Oh gosh :D

[eddy2099]

I am blaming paypal because they didn't investigate the case so much and they often help the scammers. They just believe everything the buyer says. Idiots...


The point is that you are not supposed to use Paypal to do money exchanges as it is explicitly prohibited by Paypal and yet you do it and you want Paypal to side you for that.

I really don't get you. If you want to blame, you have yourself only to blame for proudly doing what is unacceptable. You breach your contractual agreement and you should accept the consequences.

[damircea]

I understand that, my fault this time, but I was thinking about the future.
What if I will sell a product or ... a service and I will get scammed again because Paypal agrees with everything the buyer says?

[sawz]

I understand that, my fault this time, but I was thinking about the future.
What if I will sell a product or ... a service and I will get scammed again because Paypal agrees with everything the buyer says?
it isn't always like that, yes it may happen, its happened to me.
and theres nothing you can really do about it. sad but true. :mad:

[damircea]

I talked with the buyer. Here is our discussion if interested:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6346/picture1cy9.th.png (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1cy9.png)

[Rohit patel]

Why you blame PayPal for it? First of of PayPal doesn't allowed money exchanges and you can refer their policy so you already doing not allowed process on PayPal. Also Person whom you transfer funds by E-Gold is scammer.

[sawz]

I talked with the buyer. Here is our discussion if interested:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6346/picture1cy9.th.png (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1cy9.png)

is this your person here?
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=738341

[damircea]

is this your person here?
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=738341

Oh yes but I know him on other name.
He said that I will get my money back within a week :). So I will protect his identity now. If I won't get my money I will be very noisy.

[Psychic51]

This looks like a common thing. I've seen several threads about how someone bought something from someone and quickly filed a dispute. From what I've seen so far people are saying that PayPal always sides with the buyer in these things. It sounds like an almost perfect crime. Easy too. PayPal does most of the dirty work.

I'm thinking this has been going on for a while. I wonder why they haven't bothered to do anything about it? If I were you I'd be calling PayPal and telling them what happened. Don't just talk with the first person who answers the phone. Talk to a supervisor and if possible THEIR supervisor. PayPal may not have been the actual villain in this crime, but they were certainly complicit.

[sawz]

If I were you I'd be calling PayPal and telling them what happened.

right, call Paypal and tell them you violated their TOS.
see how fast your account gets locked up.

MoneyBookers is the same way, they catch you exchanging currency,
they seize your account and all your funds.

[damircea]

I understood this case but there's a big question mark in my head. Ok, my fault this time, I deserve that BUT. What if in the future I will do a service (like writing for a blog or doing some webdesign stuff) and I will be robbed again?
Paypal believes the buyer too much! They don't even investigate the case. For paypal the buyer seems to be the God! And that's bad. The guys from paypal don't realize that very often the buyers can be the scammers, not the sellers?

[eddy2099]

No, if you do comply fully with your contractual terms, provide the proper documentations then you have a fighting chance to win the case.

It is not like the buyer will always win, as a seller, you need to submit invoice, proof of physical delivery (if possible with online tracking) and so on. I find that the 'Send Money' option which people used here is the wrong method of receiving money from sales and that could be the reason why people here face problem. You should use the 'Request Money' or 'Invoice' method and then state clearly what is provided and all that in there.

Do not deal with unverified accounts or accounts you feel suspicious about. Make sure that you do your due diligence by checking up on the person you plan to deal with before you accept his money.

Remember that the buyer paid first and so the seller needs to prove that he delivered the goods or services.

[terminator69]

I don't see anything to do with paypal. They are just doing payment processing, you were scammed by the one you exchanged E-Gold with.

INDEED. It is foolish to blame paypal for your own problems, paypal didn't rob you at all.

[jacobkell]

I lost once 1500$ on paypal by doing exchange.And only beacuse i wanted to break income record.Instead that,i break lose record.After that i dont do paypal related exchanges,only with currencies where is that allowed.

[Psychic51]

right, call Paypal and tell them you violated their TOS.
see how fast your account gets locked up.

MoneyBookers is the same way, they catch you exchanging currency,
they seize your account and all your funds.

Ooops, I hadn't thought of that.

Good advise.

I bet the scammer knew this too. It's almost like stealing from a drug dealer. They can't go to the cops because they're breaking the law.

[Pervert-For-Life]

why do you have to do money exchange? see what happen to you now?? now there is nothing you can do other then learn your lesson for doing business with scammers and frauds.... just expose the scammer on the forum so that everyone can be alerted from that scammer and not do business with him.....

[Pervert-For-Life]

oh and you can wait months for him but i am sure you will get no money ever again from him... so keep wasting your time....:D and good luck.....

[wisdomtool]

Money exchange is easy money but it can be a hard lesson as there is no protection from the payment facilitators and they explicitly do not allow for it.


why do you have to do money exchange? see what happen to you now?? now there is nothing you can do other then learn your lesson for doing business with scammers and frauds.... just expose the scammer on the forum so that everyone can be alerted from that scammer and not do business with him.....

[asterix]

May be it was the guy who made the exchange responsible ? when the dispute was created you should have specified that the transaction was a Digital item.you should probably ask the guy to make the transaction again.

[makelanguages]

dam that sucks, paypal should be on the sellers side instead.. hopefully you will catch the scammer

[arjun316]

risking you money for paypal exchange you will always loose as other system does not offer chargeback service but paypal does

and scammer very well use this service to scam people

my suggestion never do money exchange untill you are sending paypal

[jon2k6]

I'm in a similar situation now. I sold a guy a laptop recently, he payed me $1,000 via paypal, he picked the laptop up in hand. Then last night (day after) I see a dispute by him raised... picked up in hand so I can't provide tracking.

This has also happened to me once before this and the other person got the money. PayPal are really shitty with these disputes, complete bias. No matter what you say, they always believe the person making the claim. Really annoys me, is not an investigation is a sham, they just believe anyone and lagit sellers get ripped off.

[maxxcwl]

Now, when I checked my e-mail I saw that all the money were refunded to the payer!!!!
What theeee??? What can I do now?

Its obvious that you were scammed by that person, there's not much that you can do now.

[jeff2010]

I hope you can deal dgn paypal verify only,

[BuckBuck]

The point is that you are not supposed to use Paypal to do money exchanges as it is explicitly prohibited by Paypal and yet you do it and you want Paypal to side you for that.

I really don't get you. If you want to blame, you have yourself only to blame for proudly doing what is unacceptable. You breach your contractual agreement and you should accept the consequences.

I completely agree with you.

[cliveone]

sorry to hear you lost your money .... I got scammed $1000 just last month by the notorious Justin Daves - if you dont know the guy be warned, he lurks around this forum and changes usernames from time to time, even creating additional usernames to bump his threads. Anyway, I filed a claim with paypal and they had initially refused it. But I persevered and after several calls and emails to paypal, I finally got refunded my money. I got advice from people on how to deal with the matter, some were helpful, others told me to forget about getting the money back since the transaction was a service. Lucky enough Paypal ruled in my favour. It helped as well that Justin Daves is a convicted criminal in the state of Georgia, US. My advice to anyone who was scammed by this guy is dont give up hope and when contacting paypal try to be polite to their staff - you wont get anywhere by being rude or accusatory.