What PHP frame work do you use?

[goldensea80]

And is it flexible? Simple? Extensible? Can you explain more about your experience with those frameworks?

[jestep]

I use symfony. It is easy once you get through a nasty learning curve. From my research it's probably the best developed PHP framework out there. It installs easily using PEAR, has a ton of command line and admin generating features, and can do just about anything you would need it to. However as stated, the learning curve is bad. Unless you have experience with ROR and you use a MVC style of php programming, it's not something you can pick up in just a few hours. The others I have looked at are cakephp and Zend.

In the case of any framework, I wouldn't recommend using them unless you have a large project or something that multiple developers are going to be working with.

[chopsticks]

I've recently been working on Zend framework quite a bit. So far I like it alot with the only thing I dislike been the reading to coding ratio. At the moment i'm still trying to figure out how to do a simple login system using the auth and the access control stuff for pages accessible once logged in.

Overall the features i've seen on the Zend framework site seem quite useful and the reviews seem positive. I can't wait till I can understand it more so I can use more features of it.

[AliasXNeo]

Wrote my own framework. Quite possibly the best thing I ever did. No reading books or tutorials trying to debug what may be an internal error because I wrote every single line in it. As I use it on applications I gradually make changes and enhance it. For example my last enhancement gave the entire framework SEO friendly URL's (e.g mysite.com/download/view/some download file/).

[Christian Little]

Custom. I have about 50 code libraries that serve various purposes, everything else is usually custom per project so it makes it hard to find or use a standard framework.

[chopsticks]

Wrote my own framework. Quite possibly the best thing I ever did. No reading books or tutorials trying to debug what may be an internal error because I wrote every single line in it. As I use it on applications I gradually make changes and enhance it. For example my last enhancement gave the entire framework SEO friendly URL's (e.g mysite.com/download/view/some download file/).
Does it follow any OOP design patterns such as the MVC?

[clinton]

I use my own or one my buddy made, depending on the project. For my own stuff I use one that I made called BlackLeopardEngine (http://blackleopardengine.org)

[blueparukia]

I use my own, or none.

I never trust anyone else with code that will never be written to my standards, and I don't want to clean it up, plus the bloat is something I can live without. Its like those terrible JS frameworks -moofx, jquery etc.

Mine has numerous features that are all optional - a database layer, where running:
$db->select("*", "table", "id='6'")

Will output the appropriate SQL query - whether it be MySQL, PgSQL, MSSQL or SQLite - each database engine has its own file, you just include what one you want.

I also have the fun of being able to place hooks in my code ANYWHERE, and use them succesfully from an external file. Numerous other features include INI reader/writer, output Javascript feeds, form generation etc.

[o_rly]

I recently started working with CodeIgniter. It is a MVC framework that is relatively well-documented and easy to extend. It's fairly lightweight, also.

[wood]

my site php frameworks .com (http://www.phpframeworks.com) compare different PHP frameworks and taking a look at many popular PHP frameworks,and help you to choose the right frameworks for you.

[clinton]

I use my own, or none.

I never trust anyone else with code that will never be written to my standards, and I don't want to clean it up, plus the bloat is something I can live without. Its like those terrible JS frameworks -moofx, jquery etc.
It's the same with me, I've spent around 4 months working on my own framework that checks large amounts of form data, accesses a database quickly, lets you add titles, css, and javascript in the content body.

Everyone has their own taste, I like to avoid abbreviations: instead of $db I'll ue $database or instead of HtmlDoc I'll use HtmlDocument. I know it's a little extra work but it's a lot clearer and I use an editor that guesses what your typing so that helps.

[LogicFlux]

Codeigniter (http://codeigniter.com/) + zend framework as needed

[websinch]

same as above codeigniter rocks! It lets you use libs from any framework available due to how it was designed

[softvision]

I prefer Zend Framework

[clinton]

I prefer Zend FrameworkIt seems like quite a few people use Zend's Framework. I might take a look at it to get some ideas for my own. Why do you choose Zend Framework?

[LogicFlux]

same as above codeigniter rocks! It lets you use libs from any framework available due to how it was designed

Yeah and Zend Framework seems to do a good job of letting you use it as a library, so they are a good combination. Just put the Zend Framework directory in the include path and you're set.

[chanakya]

I am a new programmer and i am building up my library slowly

How about sharing our libraries here ?

interested ?

[wing]

The current project (http://stim.se/stim/prod/stimv4eng.nsf/alldocuments/756AB278F78B372EC12572AD004B4689) I'm working on is based on Zend Framework as the client wanted it, and I must say I like it. It's easy to use, stable and the performance is great.
Another framework well worth to check out is Konstrukt (http://www.konstrukt.dk/) which has a totally different philosophy behind it.
:)

[Social.Network]

I use the Zend Framework. I am a .NET developer transitioning to PHP and found several offerings, including the Prado Framework. I selected Prado based on its ASP.NET event-driven programming model, which made it easier transitioning from .NET to PHP. However, I switched over to Zend and use it on all PHP-based projects.

[Danltn]

I use my own, or none.

I never trust anyone else with code that will never be written to my standards, and I don't want to clean it up, plus the bloat is something I can live without. Its like those terrible JS frameworks -moofx, jquery etc.


I agree with you on the first bit (I too use my own framework), but the burden of jQuery is worth every kilobyte of bandwidth it uses (and I'm sure it only uses about 16kb, which is tiny.)

The amount of time it saves me over writing normal Javascript is astronomical. Definitely worth getting into if you need a snazzier site.

Dan

[popol]

agree with Danltn.
I use my own, or none.

I never trust anyone else with code that will never be written to my standards, and I don't want to clean it up, plus the bloat is something I can live without. Its like those terrible JS frameworks -moofx, jquery etc.

i don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you need to get some info before you badmouth some framework..

[blueparukia]

I do know what I am talking about, having used both the ones I mentioned extensively when doing integration work for MyBB and Interspire shopping cart, as well as when I first started learning Javascript. The code is only just accessible, and rather bloated (100kb, uncompressed is...eugh).

The image gallery thing on their site is proof enough, and IMO (notice I said IMO) it overcomplicates rather than simplifies. Plus to find out how it works I have to read someone else's code, about jus over half of which I'd do differently - which by then I may as well write my own framework (which I have done, thought it uses "normal" javascript - its just collection of prebuilt functions (most emulating PHP, plus a few very lightweight scripts such as fade in/out and drag and drop - with handles, as well as cross browser methods such ass add element/child/attribute) all of which are removable. Next revision I do will include a form validator, not written by me, but by a dear friend ;)

All of the functions in mine, which does more than everything I need (for when I release it, some people want extra features) and maintains a healthy 25kb in size UNCOMPRESSED (should really compress it, see what that does to it) .

Anyway, this is waaaaay off topic. So I'm outta here, for fear that next thing you may say is "Dreamweaver is awesome" ;)

[LogicFlux]

I agree with you on the first bit (I too use my own framework), but the burden of jQuery is worth every kilobyte of bandwidth it uses (and I'm sure it only uses about 16kb, which is tiny.)

The amount of time it saves me over writing normal Javascript is astronomical. Definitely worth getting into if you need a snazzier site.

Dan

That's true, using JQuery is more like using a different language than just using a library. But I thought JQuery was well more than 16kb compressed? And when you start using plugins it goes up a lot more. The reason I usually use YUI is because it's broken up so well into smallish files and you don't have to include more than what you need.

[LogicFlux]

I just googled JQuery's file size, I guess it is around 20kb packed. I was thinking about jquery.xxx.min.js which is around 54kb. I still like how YUI is broken up though. If I wanted to pack the YUI library I could and get some of the file down to around 5kb(I've tried it before). I might still end up using more than 20kb packed, but chances are some of the stuff I would be including in YUI would require external plugins if done in JQuery which increases file size.

[Danltn]

Download jQuery 1.2.6 (16kb ...

Definitely 16kb once gzipped - possibly smaller!

And to get back to the real point... I'm not necessarily saying jQuery is better than other JS libs such as YUI (although I prefer it) but that simply using a JS lib can speed up your development time, and really - in this day and age, what's 16kb?

Just running your JS, CSS and HTML through a compressor can make up for this.

Dan

[InFloW]

I used to maintain my own PHP framework but I've switched to Zend Framework as I have no interest in maintaining something that is really just the back ground work. I'd rather focus on the logic of the application rather than writing DB classes, validation systems ect. Zend Framework or any other popular PHP framework also has the advantage of other people knowing it. Having someone jump into your own framework can take some time compared to if they already have used one of the others.

Now as far as the javascript frameworks, I also used to have my own framework for it but over time it became cumbersome to keep up to date with fixes and changes to run on all the browsers. It's easier to just have JQuery maintain that and I'll worry about what really matters. It's also a lot easier once again to be using something a lot of developers have experience with. There is a big reason a lot of systems are switching to use JQuery, YUI and various other JS frameworks. It is just not worth the effort to maintain non application portion of the javascript.

I'm going to imagine some here are also against source control. They do not believe in using GIT, SVN, CVS or something like them. Assuming there is more than one developer do you just use a source control shingle or something?

[Mozzart]

You know I think frameworks are probably the future of web applications, writing scripts in a procedural way is getting tiresome. Now everyone is flirting with design patterns and OOP (which is really good)

I myself use ZF, also have tried cakephp, codeigniter but i just plainly like ZF, it's just too darn good

[itnashvilleCOM]

My own, you can't beat a system you know like the back of your hand and you dont have to worry about buggy releases. haha.

[chopsticks]

My own, you can't beat a system you know like the back of your hand and you dont have to worry about buggy releases. haha.
That is true to a certain extent, but it does take the extra effort to find and fix all possible exploits in your code as well as slow code within it if it exists.

[InFloW]

Well something I thought to bring up was why stop at creating your own framework why not go further? Why use PHP when you could use C or actually just move to ASM and then you'll have real control.

The frameworks remove one less thing to worry about. The big thing is they're coded at the level of the language itself. PHP was originally suppose to be just a templating language if my memory serves me right. It's really just a much easier way to develop dynamic sites than doing them in C (I know people who coded their sites in pure C)

[clinton]

Well something I thought to bring up was why stop at creating your own framework why not go further? Why use PHP when you could use C or actually just move to ASM and then you'll have real control.

The frameworks remove one less thing to worry about. The big thing is they're coded at the level of the language itself. PHP was originally suppose to be just a templating language if my memory serves me right. It's really just a much easier way to develop dynamic sites than doing them in C (I know people who coded their sites in pure C)PHP was started just to perform simple tasks(Personal Home Page). But it's grown to be much more than that, the use of classes has enabled us to use OOP.

I don't want to use ASM(I heard it's a pain in the ass) but I wouldn't mind using C++ for web development. The only problem with that is the limited amount software that supports the use of C++ in the same way I use PHP. I also think it might be a little bit of overkill to use C++ for web development when working on a small project.

I like PHP because it's simple(yet not too simple), it's flexible, it's pretty fast and it's easy to pick up(you don't have to because a complete geek to use it). A problem with using PHP is that it can be waayyy too forgiving. You can be as messy and unorganized as you want and still use PHP. Thats a bad thing and I try to stay as organized as possible when it comes down to that.

[bucabay]

What about developing a framework on top of an existing framework?

I usually write a layer/wrapper on top of the framework I use so that the framework can be upgraded and the layer just stays relatively the same, or vise versa. That way you have some control but keep the updates to the framework..

[Ragnarok]

Im just started programming in php, i didnt know that it has frameworks. I might try one soon to see whether it's easy to master php using frameworks

[mz906]

just my .02

for those bashing frameworks...umm, it's not for everyone, IMO framework are far those that want to focus on something else: i.e.

use drupal as the CMS, focus on marketing your site
use mootools, focul is on back end php/mysql
etc.

most ppl use frame works to save time and in the end make more money

I'm new to php, but old to frameworks, and going thru the headache (sometimes) of learning some else's code, i've started building my own php framework, but i'm still using YUI ;)

just curious does anyone out there use SMARTY?

[chopsticks]

I've tried Smarty and personally, I am not very fond of it. I didn't really get to deep into it but I did find some aspects of it to be very good. I pretty much stopped using it after reading crap loads of threads on Sitepoint about using an extra unecessary layer on your code, i.e, the templating engine.

Since reading all that and seeing how all it really did was slow you down I moved on to just using pure php in templates instead. The code is still separated and all logic is performed prior to the template being accessed.

Removing the template engine I was using from my site reduced the memory usage and had some minor speed improvements. Since then i've never looked back.

[itnashvilleCOM]

That is true to a certain extent, but it does take the extra effort to find and fix all possible exploits in your code as well as slow code within it if it exists.

Yeah, but once you do, it is well worth it. You have a solid system that you can trust that no n00bs have messed with. If it breaks, you don't have to go far to find it's developer. LOL Also, when using a widely used framework, the hackers have the code too. They know the vulnerable spots. Where-as with your own framework, they have to dig harder to find vulnerabilities and since most "hackers" these days are just 13 year olds with pre-made bots, they give up because they have no idea how to proceed.

[revvi]

I use Qcodo (http://www.qcodo.com) framework in my various projects. It is suitable to all aspects starting from game to full-blown applications. The good thing, most components are easily extended. It supports AJAX without the need to write any javascript code at all.

[clinton]

Yeah, but once you do, it is well worth it. You have a solid system that you can trust that no n00bs have messed with. If it breaks, you don't have to go far to find it's developer. LOL Also, when using a widely used framework, the hackers have the code too. They know the vulnerable spots. Where-as with your own framework, they have to dig harder to find vulnerabilities and since most "hackers" these days are just 13 year olds with pre-made bots, they give up because they have no idea how to proceed.Thats the thing. With existing frameworks hackers can exploit you to hell because they know the codes and stuff. Your own made framework is only viewed by you and your co-workers.

I'm opening a social network on my own framework. Even though the basic framework is out in the public the plug ins I wrote are private to my project. So any md5 hashes can't be looked up and manipulated.

[Danltn]

Yeah, but once you do, it is well worth it. You have a solid system that you can trust that no n00bs have messed with. If it breaks, you don't have to go far to find it's developer. LOL Also, when using a widely used framework, the hackers have the code too. They know the vulnerable spots. Where-as with your own framework, they have to dig harder to find vulnerabilities and since most "hackers" these days are just 13 year olds with pre-made bots, they give up because they have no idea how to proceed.

Hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

[slaydragon]

what is framework? and why use framework? y can't we just use the normal coding as in php.net

[itnashvilleCOM]

Framework is pre-developed code that you can reuse over and over to speed up development of complex systems. Ther eis nothing wrong with just coding what is needed, framework just helps you get there faster by reusing code.

[slaydragon]

oic.. is the php syntax similar in what is used in framework? is framework something like a library? like prototypejs and jquery?

[itnashvilleCOM]

A framework is like this. Over the course of 2 years you used the same custom user management system for most projects. You improve it over time. To this day, you use it for all membership sites you build, instead of coding custom user management systems everytime. That user management system is a framework. Php code is php code, all the same. The scripts you mentioned are not php, they are javascript.

[clinton]

oic.. is the php syntax similar in what is used in framework? is framework something like a library? like prototypejs and jquery?Yes, similar, it's a collection of code or more like a skeleton to work with so a developer doesn't have to start from scratch every time. Usually it is a library of advanced or not so advanced scripts that help save time so you don't have to recode everything.