DMOZ inclusion problems.

[LaCabra]

I was wondering if someone can shed some light into DMOZ. I submitted my site back in July 2004 and have yet to appear on the directory. I followed the guidelines for submission and was also careful to ensure that I submitted to the correct category. But as of today I can not find my site listed there.

I read several posting online indicating that getting onto DMOZ could take some time. I also read a disturbing article that discussed how some of the editors of the categories were actually manipulating inclusions unfairly. It went on to say that it was discovered that some of the editors were players in a specific industry and that they were purposely omitting ligit sites from the categories to eliminate potential competition and threats. I surely hope that my category editor is not such a beast.

Can anyone suggest how I can submit my site to DMOZ and get listed?
:)
cheers
Frank

[SEbasic]

This should give you a very rough idea of how DMOZ works.

http://www.corruptdmozeditor.com/ (It's pretty funny too ;))

[LaCabra]

hahahaha ... thats nuts.

[ManageMyServices]

Interesting site there...shows a whole different side to dmoz...

[ryanturner.com]

I have always had problems getting into DMOZ - I sure hope that the corruption hasn't been the issue - its horrible to think that that happens.

[subseo]

Every system has its leaks. If there is someone breaking the rules, there is always a higher level editor that you can complain to. If I remember correctly, there are some forums for that purpose, visited often by dmoz editors.

Such a behaviour could be seen easily from dmoz editing logs and enough of a reason to ban that editor.

[Bernard]

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=95&page=3&pp=10

See post #21 & #35...

[pwaring]

The problem with dmoz is that they seem to view themselves as an elite group who don't like new members. I tried for ages to become an editor, spent forever filling in the forms, submitting them, patiently waiting only to get a rejection with no reason (at least if they'd said "hey, this is why we rejected you" I could have fixed it). When I eventually became an editor I always dealt with new sites fairly quickly, but when I asked for editorship of another relevant category I got turned down again and again. Eventually I just gave up and resigned my editorship because the category I was in charge of rarely got new submissions and they weren't letting me help out anywhere else.

If you look at the 'category editors' section at the bottom of each page, you'll see that many categories just don't have an editor. I think links posted to those categories go up a level until they reach a parent category that does have an editor, but I imagine it takes a long time before they actually get seen and reviewed.

I personally never changed listings out of malice, and you're not supposed to get editorship where you might have a conflict of interest (e.g. if you work for a company that is or might be listed in the category) but I can see how it could happen. There doesn't seem to be a huge degree of checking or control over the submissions unless someone draws attention to it.

[roadies]

I haven't had too many problems as a DMOZ editor. The EditAll has been very helpful and friendly and has kept my category (and all the other editor's categories) clean and free of corrupt behavior. I know that corrupt editors exist, but luckily my genre hasn't experienced it yet.

[rickbender1940]

I have always had problems getting into DMOZ - I sure hope that the corruption hasn't been the issue - its horrible to think that that happens.

Ahahahahhaha *snort*

The DMOZ editor system is more corrupt than a customs department in a banana republic. As long as there are vested interests in keeping the system as broken as it is (no status updates, incredibly rude and self-righteous editors, opaque and arbitrary decisions) it's not going to change either. We submitted in Dec 2003 or so for a category with only 5 or so companies in the world that fit, and are still waiting. To add insult to injury there's one or two completely inappropriate links in there too. Frankly, I'm surprised a disgruntled webmaster or 50 hasn't DDOS'd them out of existence by now. But their slow slide into irrelevance is making that point moot anyway

[luisfernandez]

Yeah, it all depends on the editor. If you have bad luck you may never get into DMOZ, regardless of the site quality.

[San Diego Real Estate]

I too have had DMOZ posting Issues! Can anyone provide guidance?

[roadies]

welcome to the forums SDRE. There's plenty of advice on DMOZ, lots of nuggets of information. Not sure where, so you'll have to search for it, but I've seen many gems in these forums.

[CanadianEh]

I have written a DMOZ review (http://www.best-web-directories.com/DMOZ.htm) with some interesting links.

I have read quite a few stories like the "corrupt dmoz editor". The problem is that it is hard to discount these stories because it explains so much about why DMOZ can't get its shit together. :mad: :( :confused:

[San Diego Real Estate]

Do you have any Tips for getting into DMOZ? Proper posting process etc!

[Bernard]

SDRE, the following were all written (at least the initial posts) by ODP editors:

Getting your site listed (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16137)

ODP Essay: Beating the odds (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12431)

ODP Essay: Unique Content (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11993)

[LaCabra]

Thanks for all the feedback folks!
cheers
Frank

[brainmass]

DMOZ is a joke, I've been trying to get us listed for a year with no luck.

I wish it would die and something better, more organized and professional came along where it's possible to actually get added in a reasonable amount of time.

To me it seems like it's run/managed by a bunch of 14 year olds with big egos.

[Birdie]

>I've been trying to get us listed for a year with no luck.

Maybe if editors did not have to spend so much time deleting all your spammy duplicate submissions they could actually get on with editing.

[brainmass]

>I've been trying to get us listed for a year with no luck.

Maybe if editors did not have to spend so much time deleting all your spammy duplicate submissions they could actually get on with editing.


If thats in anyway directed at me, don't make stupid assumptions.

[macdesign]

If you own the site in your signature - the message was indeed directed at you.

Five editors have had to waste their time dealling with your spammy submissions to multiple categories. And it's acts like this that waste editor time, and slow down the review of those sites that abide by the submission guidelines.

[pwaring]

DMOZ is a joke, I've been trying to get us listed for a year with no luck.

Indeed it is, I've not heard anything on the status of some submissions I made a couple of weeks ago, ok that might sound a bit impatient but if you're going to run a decent directory the turnaround on submissions has to be reasonably fast.

I wish it would die and something better, more organized and professional came along where it's possible to actually get added in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm working on something like this at the moment, the four problems I see are:

1. How to deal with the sheer number of potential submissions
2. How to deal with broken/outdated links
3. How to check that people aren't spamming several categories (personally I think listing a site in 3 or 4 categories is fine, so long as those are relevant)
4. How to stop editors being corrupt (best solution I can think of is for two editors to approve a submission before it goes live, same goes for deleting them - a bit like the way kuro5hin.org handles new articles)

[macdesign]

I'm working on something like this at the momentBut to really compete with ODP you need several thousand people and have to pay them - and you probably need half a million dollars in equipment. Everyone claims to be able to compete with ODP with paying directories - but I'm still waiting. There's a clutter of these directories appearing, each with paid submissions all competing with each other.

I've not heard anything on the status of some submissions I made a couple of weeks ago,Were you expect email notification? - cause that does not happen.

How to deal with the sheer number of potential submissionsYes it's massive - but ODP is not supposed to be a submission processing service and it does not plan on listing every web site that exists.

How to deal with broken/outdated linksIt's not perfect, but there are tools that automatically detect a lot of them. I'd like to see these automatic systems improved. Feel free to post at http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5453

How to check that people aren't spamming several categoriesI agree about several categories, but realistically it would overload the editing work - so it won't happen.

How to stop editors being corruptYou can't stop them - but you can catch them - other editors do review other's work and then senior editors will concur on editor removal. I'm not a senior editor - but I catch a few a year and report them - they all get removed. Other than that it's a slow build up of trust, that's why new editors are limited to what they can mess up and abuse.

Rogue Students was moved recently to be reviewed in Reference/Education/Colleges_and_Universities/Europe/United_Kingdom - although I would not count on it being accepted.

[pwaring]

But to really compete with ODP you need several thousand people and have to pay them - and you probably need half a million dollars in equipment. Everyone claims to be able to compete with ODP with paying directories - but I'm still waiting. There's a clutter of these directories appearing, each with paid submissions all competing with each other.

I'm not claiming to be able to compete with Dmoz, certainly not at first anyway. I just want to run an alternative that will hopefully result in people's sites getting approved quickly and for them to know when it has happened. Even if I was aiming to compete, it would take a while for the site to build up popularity and for word to get around about it. I imagine it would take at least two years to reach the scale that dmoz has, in that time I'd be making sure that the resources were available for it to expand if need be, and at how to fund the site.

Were you expect email notification? - cause that does not happen.

Yes, and I know it doesn't happen - that is a major failing in my opinion. How am I supposed to know if any of my sites have been accepted without continuously checking dmoz.org (and that assumes they haven't been moved to a slightly different category).

I agree about several categories, but realistically it would overload the editing work - so it won't happen.

How so? You'd have one record for a site, then multiple pointers to it from each category. When a site was submitted, you could have a list of checkboxes for each category it was submitted in. If you thought the site was appropriate for some categories but not others, you'd only select some of the checkboxes and the site would only appear in those categories. I'm sure there are a few other ways in which you could add multiple-category support without overwhelming the editors as well.

You can't stop them - but you can catch them - other editors do review other's work and then senior editors will concur on editor removal. I'm not a senior editor - but I catch a few a year and report them - they all get removed. Other than that it's a slow build up of trust, that's why new editors are limited to what they can mess up and abuse.

If you had a rule "two editors must approve/deny a submission before it gets removed from the queue", that would stop a lot of the abuse before it happened. Even if there isn't much abuse going on or you clamp down on it, a lot of people (especially from what I've seen just on this forum) perceive the directory as being abused even if it isn't. Having a policy whereby you made it clear that it would be very difficult for one editor to go on a rampage would put some minds at rest and also save you from having to clear up the mess when you do catch them.

Rogue Students was moved recently to be reviewed in Reference/Education/Colleges_and_Universities/Europe/United_Kingdom - although I would not count on it being accepted.

The problem is that, unless I know an editor in that category who is willing to keep an eye on my submission, how on earth am I supposed to know whether it has been accepted or not? I don't get any "thanks for your submission, we're looking at it" or "we rejected your submission, but here's how to do it better next time" or anything like that.

[DarrenC]

I agree that if an automatic email system was put in place, i.e. an email to say, no thanks, or yes your site is accepted! That way it will the editors won't have to spend so much time in the resource zone answering webmaster queries.

When you look over time at directories, so many of them have come and gone, look at bluefind, webatlas etc, all having problems with Google. Dmoz has stood the stand of time, but I do agree with comments about obnoxious editors, but then some webmasters can be just as bad.

I've had major complaints about the directory, and I'm sure you could look them up if you really wanted :D but providing you design a unique, easy to navigate, compliant in all browsers website, that isn't spammy, has tons of affiliate links on you cannot go far wrong in my opinion.

[roadies]

But to really compete with ODP you need several thousand people and have to pay them - and you probably need half a million dollars in equipment. Everyone claims to be able to compete with ODP with paying directories - but I'm still waiting. There's a clutter of these directories appearing, each with paid submissions all competing with each other.

You'd have to be about.com (I know not a true directory, but they do have thousands of paid editors), Looksmart, or Yahoo. Get your checkbook out.

[brainmass]

If you own the site in your signature - the message was indeed directed at you.

Five editors have had to waste their time dealling with your spammy submissions to multiple categories. And it's acts like this that waste editor time, and slow down the review of those sites that abide by the submission guidelines.


I'm guessing the original SEO people submitted the site a long time ago, but if my memory serves me right I attempted to get us listed twice over the past year in different categories each time.

It's quite annoying having to wait months and months and have no idea whats going on, the categories I used had very few sites so I don't see how the editors of those categories are actually doing anything.

The check your status forum is useless as well, 'your site is awaiting review' for a year is pointless.

Useless PERIOD! I don't expect our site get every listed there, it's the biggest garbage I've ever seen and the search engines that actually use that pile of *hit should get something else to base their results on.

DMOZ = GARBAGE, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

[whateverusay]

DMOZ = GARBAGE, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

I think it has always been garbage but it stands out more because more people are trying to get in.

I think the creation of anti-odp sites lately is really funny. In the past few weeks there has been corruptdmozeditor.com, nmoz.com/ and geocities.com/insidedmoz (if there are any more I would love to see them).

Give it another year and there will need to be a directory for ex-editors and dmoz bashers.

I personally think that the ODP needs to pay more attention to the webmasters and although they should nt bow to them they definately should try to work together more. They are both after all both trying to get info the an internet user.

I agree that if an automatic email system was put in place, i.e. an email to say, no thanks, or yes your site is accepted! That way it will the editors won't have to spend so much time in the resource zone answering webmaster queries.


Here here.

[pwaring]

Heh, that nmoz site is most amusing. As an ex-editor I can relate to some of the points he makes about meta-editors getting their knickers in a twist over minor/non-existant problems.

[metrics]

It is important to remember that the editors are volunteers and don't/can't spend enough time on submisssions. Polite reminders which are spaced out in time and persistance usually work from my experience. I recently succeeded in having a site accepted after 2 reminders and about 8 months from the first submission.

[Las Vegas Homes]

I haven't had too many problems as a DMOZ editor. The EditAll has been very helpful and friendly and has kept my category (and all the other editor's categories) clean and free of corrupt behavior. I know that corrupt editors exist, but luckily my genre hasn't experienced it yet.

To get another understanding of the problems there at dmoz go read this thread http://www.national-real-estate-directory.com/real-estate-forum/showthread.php?t=113 I believe you will find it interesting from a past editall, who left dmoz because he broke his neck in a car wreck.

[minstrel]

Interesting thread referenced in your post, LVH. Thanks.

[pwaring]

The problem with reminders is that there's no easy/automated way to check whether your submission has been successful, so you don't know whether you're reminding an editor about a site that's already been denied. If you have to wait 8 months and bug the editors several times most people won't bother.

[anthonycea]

Yes, the problem is lack of automation, they do have the SOC technology working for them though.....and it is quite good :confused:


SAME OLD CRAP :p :D :p

[nfzgrld]

I just posted a question about a site I submitted over two months ago. It'll be interesting to see what kind of reponse I get, and how long it takes to get one, if at all.

[nfzgrld]

Hey, just got the response: "The submission has been accepted and is awaiting review." I guess I can live with that for now.

[whateverusay]

what was the url?

[metrics]

The problem with reminders is that there's no easy/automated way to check whether your submission has been successful, so you don't know whether you're reminding an editor about a site that's already been denied. If you have to wait 8 months and bug the editors several times most people won't bother.

This is all true, but many times you can tell if your site deserves to be accepted so bugging the editor (infrequently) is helpful although a pain. The question is whether or not it is worth it. That has to be weighed against other options. Getting in to a Joeant or similar is much easier (and a bit more expensive) however the link is probably not as strong (since Google probably links from DMOZ as well as their own dmoz copied directory). On the other hand there are other] ways to get linked.

[Blogmaster]

>I've been trying to get us listed for a year with no luck.

Maybe if editors did not have to spend so much time deleting all your spammy duplicate submissions they could actually get on with editing.
maybe if editors were less dweebish and learned how to communicate, DMOZ would have a chance to survive long term

[metrics]

Keeping up a directory that is for free is not as easy as it looks. Yahoo gave up and now charges. Once a general directory starts to ask for fees, it becomes much less useful since it is missing a lot of sites. There is no easy answer.

[Blogmaster]

I believe in fees if they keep corruption away like it occurs on a regular basis on DMOZ

[minstrel]

Give DMOZ some slack

Keeping up a directory that is for free is not as easy as it looks. Yahoo gave up and now charges. Once a general directory starts to ask for fees, it becomes much less useful since it is missing a lot of sites.
And DMOZ isn't?

[metrics]

And DMOZ isn't?
Not sure what you mean. Isn't for free?

[anthonycea]

Missing websites is what Dr. Baxter is saying ;) :)

[hurricane_sh]

DMOZ is funny, I submitted at Jan. 2004, checked on resource-zone.com several months later, I was told it's waiting for review and ask again in 6 months. I asked again last week, guess what? It's still waiting for review and I may ask in another 6 months.

[saintdw]

DMOZ wont list me for the hell of it.

My section seem to be updated pretty often, but i guess they are too good for me :o

[metrics]

And DMOZ isn't?
Yes DMOZ is also missing sites but not the same kind as Yahoo. As I said there is no easy answer for directories. Maybe it is good that there are different kinds of directories with different models since no method works.

[Blogmaster]

Yes DMOZ is also missing sites but not the same kind as Yahoo. As I said there is no easy answer for directories. Maybe it is good that there are different kinds of directories with different models since no method works.
absolutely, and I do hope a directory will arise soon which does list sites based on quality content, in the right sections and has editors which take their job serious.
But in order to get that accomplished, the editors should be paid as well. Remember: you get what you pay for and DMOZ is a prime example for that.

[minstrel]

Remember: you get what you pay for and DMOZ is a prime example for that.
I don't think it's the fact that it's a volunteer organization that's the problem. I think it's the fact that (1) it's an organization of unmoderated and unrestrained volunteers high on ego, and (2) it's a flawed concept.

[Blogmaster]

there are different things in life that motivate people and money is only one. If money is provided, there will be more accountability. The fact that gratitude is being expected as payment does explain some of the illogical behaviour seen.

I just think that in order to avoid corruptions there needs to be some things lined out. Like what are the benefits and then make sure they don't get exceeded.
Right now the nuts have taken over the nuthouse and the orderlies are gone.

I have a hard time believing that good supervision is possible in a large organization unless someone is being paid to ensure some order.

All I know is when I managed businesses, I focused on paying more for quality people.
I have seen managers do the opposite and those employees wasted time, slowed down business (income crumbled) and they stole any chance they got, so saving a little cost them a lot, and in some cases it cost the manager the job because he was responsible.

I see every business no no present there. Maybe I have a hard time believing in the non profit concept being a reality on a higher level, everytime I pass the la Jolla mormon temple by the freeway I do see that someone is benefitting financially in most cases.