TNX.Net and Google Traffic...

chodomade

Mar 27th 2008, 6:55 pm

just wondering for tnx users out there to see how if any by using tnx has affected their se ranking and etc.

i started tnx a few months ago. I had a PR6 site and things were going good.

last month my PR went to a 4 and then beginning of march, my google traffic just tanked like 80%. words that i was ranking high for years suddenly disappeared. it was like i got banned but not really. (i could find them..just a few pages later)

now..i don't buy tnx links..i just sell tnx link space on my website. i didn't think that would be a big deal (i've read about buying too many links issues).

anyone have any ideas? was thinking of removing TNX but don't want to jump the gun as it was bringing in some good money.

mtime88

Mar 27th 2008, 9:39 pm

Google doesn't like link selling either. But there could have been a number of other factors such as you lost backlinks or a change in Google's algorithm never know.:cool:

mightyb

Mar 28th 2008, 7:21 am

I think you got done for link selling rather than advertising there. You can only hurt yourself with stuff on your own page. Otherwise if i wanted to get read of my competition id buy them some TNX ads.

chodomade

Mar 28th 2008, 5:02 pm

anyone know how to pause tnx? was goign to remove the tnx code off my site and see if that did anything. man...i love tnx also.

thenetfool

Mar 28th 2008, 5:14 pm

"Otherwise if i wanted to get read of my competition id buy them some TNX ads."

Haha, good point ;)

Breakaway11

Mar 28th 2008, 5:23 pm

Deleting the code is the best bet...

Bonus-points

Mar 29th 2008, 12:37 am

last month my PR went to a 4 and then beginning of march, my google traffic just tanked like 80%

I think Google is slowly getting rid of its PR thing because people start to understand that it is pretty much useless when it comes to getting top SERPs.

words that i was ranking high for years suddenly disappeared.

Have checked if there is a new sheriff in town who has been promoting those words lately?

it was like i got banned but not really. (i could find them..just a few pages later)

This is what you usually happens when you do not promote those keywords by which you rank high. SERPs is not like PR thing, they are updated daily.

i didn't think that would be a big deal (i've read about buying too many links issues).

Remember, they don't want you to buy links and they will write anything to scare you away from getting the product leading your website to top SERPs

Google can't prove it is you who purchased links! In 100% cases people blame this on their competitors and get their SERPs back.

matrixx

Mar 29th 2008, 7:13 am

I think Google is slowly getting rid of its PR thing because people start to understand that it is pretty much useless when it comes to getting top SERPs.

So you are saying that google is getting rid of pagerank because webmasters believe it is useless for manipulating SERP.

If that is what you meant, you are assuming that:
a)Google created Pagerank for the benefit of search engine optimisers.
b) That PR is not of any benefit for search engine positioning.

I think any successful SEO will disagree with those assumptions.

Bonus-points

Mar 29th 2008, 1:49 pm

So you are saying that google is getting rid of pagerank because webmasters believe it is useless for manipulating SERP.

I am saying that when it comes to getting top SERPs, quantity of links is all that matters and PR has very little to do with it.

Many webmasters on our network have achieved great results promoting their keywords on thousands of PR0 pages. It is also very cheap.

It takes more time for Google bot to go through all those pages than if they had PR1 or more, but results are the same - your website will get top SERPs by the keyword promoted.

Just so you know, Google is perfectly hiding the fact that PR0 has value. If a page has PR0 and it is indexed in Google, its PR does have some weigh, but we never know what goes after decimal point (ex. PR 0.01 - PR 0.99) because Google doesn't tell us that. This is why we created a Site-Rank (http://site-rank.com) tool that calculates an approximate value of each page.

If that is what you meant, you are assuming that:
a)Google created Pagerank for the benefit of search engine optimisers.

Google created PageRank for its own benefit :)

b) That PR is not of any benefit for search engine positioning.

Very little benefit.

I think any successful SEO will disagree with those assumptions.

I think so too :) Your assumptions are not so good.

matrixx

Mar 30th 2008, 3:27 am

I am saying that when it comes to getting top SERPs, quantity of links is all that matters and PR has very little to do
So I assume then that you are charging the same price for PR0 and PR8 links in your service.
I bet that will be another wrong assumption from me :)

Many webmasters on our network have achieved great results promoting their keywords on thousands of PR0 pages. It is also very cheap.
Your reasoning is deeply flawed. Millions of sites achieve number one positions in the search results for particular keywords without having that keyword in its page title. This does not mean that having a keyword in the title is not important for SEO. Just because number of links and anchor text is important does NOT mean that PR is unimportant for Google SEO. I have a feeling you know that very well already.

If a page has PR0 and it is indexed in Google, its PR does have some weigh, but we never know what goes after decimal point (ex. PR 0.01 - PR 0.99) because Google doesn't tell us that. This is why we created a Site-Rank tool that calculates an approximate value of each page
Why bother. I thought you said Pagerank was unimportant:confused: Please don't say it is because you get a warm fuzzy feeling when you develop effective tools for your customers.

I have heard good things about TNX, but you do not need to create fiction to promote it.

PR Rules! Google rules! Matt Cutts Rocks!

MX

Chios

Mar 30th 2008, 4:06 am

Matrixx

TNX does not use fiction where did you get that ?
TNX is a great system if you ask me.
The don't charge PR0 the same value as a PR8

All the guy is saying is that a PR0 has some value, a PR8 probably has a higher link value but we can't easily measure the difference.

Pagerank has so little value in achieving rankings

I must disagree with Bonus Points that its only about quantity of backlinks to achieve great rankings !!!
Quality and relevance plays a big role in rankings as well !!!

EDIT: Pagerank affect of your rankings should be minimal if any

WebAttend

Mar 30th 2008, 4:44 am

PR, PR, PR ... Not all links are created equal and PR is not the metric to measure them by. The best links are links from pages that actualy rank in the serps.

My 2 cents anyway.

Sorry your threads sort of gone off topic chodomade, but not sure what to recommend here.

Bonus-points

Mar 31st 2008, 12:15 pm

Thanks guys (Chios, WebAttend) for helping me out to calm down another "SEO Pro". Looks like this newbie registered just for the purpose of arguing with me on the Google PR thing ....

Oh, I know, I will just add this guy to my Ignored list.

midomssh

Mar 31st 2008, 1:13 pm

(I am saying that when it comes to getting top SERPs, quantity of links is all that matters and PR has very little to do with it.) Bonus-points said

i agree with you 100% correct and i done an experiment on this on my own nick name
and also write this in my blog Banners,anchor text, link bait all in one (http://smalbusinessidea.com/blog/index.php/2008/03/15/bannersanchor-text-link-bait-all-in-one/) and i want mention when you read it that was between my old blog pr3 in google and my new one pr 0

adda4u

Mar 31st 2008, 1:32 pm

info rocks...

RectangleMan

Mar 31st 2008, 2:03 pm

I think Google is slowly getting rid of its PR thing because people start to understand that it is pretty much useless when it comes to getting top SERPs.

People been saying that garbage for years...it's BS.

I am saying that when it comes to getting top SERPs, quantity of links is all that matters and PR has very little to do with it.

Hmm....let me explain it. PR is a MEASURE of that quality.

Many webmasters on our network have achieved great results promoting their keywords on thousands of PR0 pages. It is also very cheap.

LOL...so you think THOUSANDS of PR0 pages are better than maybe a handful of solid PR4-PR6? Clueless sir...absolutely clueless. IF PR wasn't important then why would you even need THOUSANDS of links at PR0?

It takes more time for Google bot to go through all those pages than if they had PR1 or more, but results are the same - your website will get top SERPs by the keyword promoted.

Not sure what your point is. You seem to say that the higher the PR the better..but you said earlier it's meaningless? Get your story straight.

Google created PageRank for its own benefit

Actually it was created as part of their algorithm to create their SERPs. It's why it was important 10 years ago and why it will be important 10 years from now. It's a part of the equation and can not be discounted.

As other seems to agree...your words seem empty.

And back to Topic for the TNX issues...well...I don't use TNX but since Google banned it I have to assume it's under their watchful eye. I have had a LOT of sites where I sell links penalized. I don't really care. I still get paid and unless Google is going to pay me to be in their serps (they make money off us all) I don't see why I shouldn't sell links based on their PR system.

Google sucks.

EDIT: Funny I didn't realize you were the actual TNX guy. That really makes your posts seem REALLY Bizarre since you run a service entirely based off PR. It's safe to say that without PR your entire TNX service would be worthless. You might want to think about that before you go off telling people it's nearly useless. And btw...I just signed up and added a site to TNX. Let's see how it goes.

matrixx

Mar 31st 2008, 6:23 pm

Exactly RectangleMan.

TNX does not use fiction where did you get that ?
Fiction is (writing) work based on the imagination and not necessarily on fact.

Bonus-Points assertion that PR has no benefit in rankings is exactly that.

I never said that TNX is bad. I have heard only good things about them.
Just because Big Macs and Fries taste good it does not mean we must believe everything McDonalds says about diet and nutrition.

The don't charge PR0 the same value as a PR8
That is my point. I hope you get it now.

All the guy is saying is that a PR0 has some value
I think he said more than that in this and other threads. Including the end of pagerank. Something I have also heard about for 5 or so years now. Bonus-point has contradicted himself left, right and center.

Pagerank has so little value in achieving rankings
False. Do a search on google for any competitive term and tell me how many of the top 3 ranking pages have PRO... Case Closed.

I must disagree with Bonus Points that its only about quantity of backlinks to achieve great rankings !!!

Quantity of backlinks will increase your PR. A hundred thousand references in small scientific journals may increase your credibilty more so than just a single reference from Scientific American. You need to think of PR in that way.

Pro". Looks like this newbie registered just for the purpose of arguing with me on the Google PR thing ....
:D:D:D In 2000, when you were still working at Kentucky Fried Chicken and applying pimple cream, I was a member here. Painting me as a newbie will not make PR go away or make it less relevant. If you do not want anyone disagreeing with your fiction based assertions, perhaps a DISCUSSION forum is not a place for you. No doubt you will be careful next time before you post any fiction. I am watching you.

Oh, I know, I will just add this guy to my Ignored list
Oh what a shame, and I sooooo wanted you to be my friend. Boo hoo:(

Bonus-points

Mar 31st 2008, 7:07 pm

Google sucks.

How can you say something like that about search engine that makes our monthly paychecks look nicer?

since you run a service entirely based off PR

Link cost is the only thing that is based on PR.

You might want to think about that before you go off telling people it's nearly useless.

It is nearly useless and we have proven it to many advertisers of ours. Of course it is better to have thousands of PR2 pages linking to your website than thousands of PR0 pages, but the outcome is the same. And since outcome is the same, why pay more?

Check it yourself if you don't believe me.

And btw...I just signed up and added a site to TNX. Let's see how it goes.

It will go great in case your website has hundreds of PR0 pages, because most of our advertisers are buying plenty of PR0 links. Of course we have those who buy links from pages with PR1-6, but their orders are way smaller than those for PR0 links.

RectangleMan

Mar 31st 2008, 8:42 pm

I can get free PR0 links by the thousands at Link Vault for free. It helps but doesn't do the job of getting me ranked very high. As a matter of fact it can actually work against me.

Google might look more favorably toward one single PR6 link than 6000 PR0 links.

Hey...you can keep your delusion I don't really care. If you think I will kiss your arse because you run some link service you are wrong. And if you also think running TNX suddenly gives you some extra insight...again...you are wrong.

Link cost is the only thing that is based on PR.

Explain how else you earn money from that site?

How can you say something like that about search engine that makes our monthly paychecks look nicer?

And if it wasn't Google it would be someone else. I was actually here BEFORE Google was even launched...been using the web since 1994. I won't cheer for Google until it tells me exactly how much it takes from me on clicks. If you use adsense and get 10 cents a click...who is to say that Google isn't charging the advertiser a $1. There is almost no way to be sure. And I won't be a fan of Google as long as it tries to tell me how I can make money. If I want to sell links...I am gonna sell them. Google isn't my friend...money is my friend. Google needs US more than we need them. Be sure of that. If they fall apart....another service will pick up the slack.

It is nearly useless and we have proven it to many advertisers of ours.

Oh...prove it?

Of course it is better to have thousands of PR2 pages linking to your website than thousands of PR0 pages

Another contradiction. If it's BETTER to have PR2 than PR0 then why is PR nearly useless?

but the outcome is the same. And since outcome is the same, why pay more?

No the outcome is NOT the same. As I pointed out..having thousands of links will greatly increase the chance that Google thinks you are part of a link scheme (bad neighborhoods and all) and flag your site for a penalty. It willl be hard to have THOUSANDS of relative links from a service link Coop, Link vault, or TXN and have them relevant. It's VERY easy to have a handful of top relevent high ranking high pagerank sites that will quickly increase your own PR and SERP position.

I won't say PR0 is a useless link but certainly it's LESS desirable than a PR2+ link even you admit this. So at face value I really don't understand your position on it.

Shocker that you run TNX with your attitude about PR.

Looking at those "tips" from your signature...it's pretty funny. They are all geared to make your service appear perfect.

Using this simple technique, our site (tnx.net) has received an excellent rank in Google in just 1 month for HIGHLY competitive keywords, such as "text link ads", "text links", "buy text links", "sell text links" etc.

And now your site doesn't rank at all for those terms. Shouldn't that tell you something?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en&hs=Pwr&q=site%3Awww.tnx.net

Bryce

Mar 31st 2008, 9:24 pm

What I personally find ridiculous is grown up adults who are running their own websites and webservers, etc, worrying about what one company, Google thinks.

As far as TNX ads manipulating the SERP's - an advertiser would have to keep an ad on a site permanently. Let's face it, nobody does that. Most people don't run ads more than a month. Hardly enough time to get a permanent foothold on even a few prized niche keywords.

Bonus-points

Mar 31st 2008, 9:28 pm

And now your site doesn't rank at all for those terms. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Domain name TNX.net has absolutely nothing to do with thousands of websites on the TNX network. Just check out our robots.txt file then search DP for threads about Matt Cutts manually removing TNX.net from SERPs.

If you think we care what Google thinks about TNX, then you are wrong. We don't give a damn thing about ranking high in Google, we even banned it from crawling our website ...

But we did trick Google .... want know how? Search for "Buy links" or "Sell links" on Google and see for yourself ;)

RectangleMan, I am not going to argue with you and definitely not going to prove you anything. It is up to you to agree with me or not.

matrixx

Apr 1st 2008, 7:47 am

You are spot on RectangleMan. You have said everything that was on my mind but just with much more articulacy.

What I personally find ridiculous is grown up adults who are running their own websites and webservers, etc, worrying about what one company, Google thinks. Adult and multimillionaire oil traders sweat about every statement from OPEC. Wall street and every financial center in the world sweats about every sentence that Ben Bernanke makes. Coffee Growers all across the world worry about statements from Starbucks. Don't even begin about Ebay and Ebayers etc etc. If your livelihood is greatly influenced by any entity, it is only natural to care about the direction that entity is taking. Perhaps you have your own personal internet with your own servers and websites, but many people are sucking money from google traffic day in and out. So it matters to them what google does. If your business model is different...good for you, but all business models are flawed whether they depend on JV traffic, classifieds, word of mouth,radio,tv, articles, press releases, myspace, ppc or SEO.

As far as TNX ads manipulating the SERP's - an advertiser would have to keep an ad on a site permanently. Let's face it, nobody does that. Most people don't run ads more than a month. This is incorrect. If your ROI is positive, many people leave links on site selling sites indefinitely. I would imagine TNX allows that. If this were not the case, textlinkbrokers, TNX, linkvault,powerlinks,linkbrokers,links4you,3wl,linkadage etc etc would have been out of business years ago. Again, you need to understand that their are many business models that all work.

We don't give a damn thing about ranking high in Google, we even banned it from crawling our website You banned them AFTER they banned TNX, not the other way around. So do not pretend you do not want Google rankings. If for some reason you do not really want search engine traffic, you would also ban MSN and Yahoo from crawling your site ...which incidentally you haven't. Claiming you have banned Google is much cooler and profitable for a link seller than saying you have been banned by Google. Have some integrity and just admit it.

But we did trick Google .... want know how? My my, aren't you soooo clever!..For your information using authority sites like digital point, squidoo, warrior forum, youtube etc to post a comment and then direct links to it using guest book spamming or other linking methods is as old as Altavista. Not really clever at all actually. ForumMarketing101.

By the way, I thought you just said you did not give a damn about Google??? So why bother "tricking it". Stop contradicting yourself man!

RectangleMan, I am not going to argue with you
You mean you can't argue with him because he has totally exposed you. The game is up! Quit now instead of digging yourself into an even bigger hole.

Bryce

Apr 4th 2008, 3:28 am

First off, matrixx, you're quoting my post in those first few lines, not RectangleMan. You could at least have the courtesy to quote properly if you're going to break a post into a series of rebuttals as you have done.

I fail to see the point you're trying to make between TNX and OPEC and the Federal Reserve because Google is not a Government Appointed agency. You lost me right there. If that's the best logic you can come up with, I humbly suggest you keep trying.

As far as your reply to me stating "many people leave links on site selling sites indefinitely". How do you know this? Did you commission a study into this phenomenon? Where are you pulling your facts from because to me, it looks like you're pulling the from outer space.

As entrepreneurs, we use a variety of techniques to make money. Sometimes certain ethics have to be compromised. However, I hardly see where an "ethic" can be derived because Matt Cutts blogged about it.

ficgs

Apr 4th 2008, 2:04 pm

Tricks work 1 week, 1 month... then die .. and TNX is not free of charge...

Bonus-points

Apr 4th 2008, 8:34 pm

Tricks work 1 week, 1 month... then die .. and TNX is not free of charge...

Nothing is free of charge, but TNX is the cheapest way to build links.

GameOver

Apr 4th 2008, 8:41 pm

Is the website www.tnx.net? It isnt loading for me. I really think this program sounds interesting.

mtime88

Apr 4th 2008, 8:58 pm

I fail to see the point you're trying to make between TNX and OPEC and the Federal Reserve because Google is not a Government Appointed agency. You lost me right there. If that's the best logic you can come up with, I humbly suggest you keep trying.

He is saying that one company controls a whole industry and greatly affect your business you should pay attention to every little thing that they do.

Bonus-points

Apr 4th 2008, 11:55 pm

Is the website www.tnx.net? (http://www.tnx.net?) It isnt loading for me. I really think this program sounds interesting.

It must have had a bit of downtime. Please try again.

chodomade

Apr 7th 2008, 11:02 am

happymondays

Jun 8th 2008, 5:45 pm

And if it wasn't Google it would be someone else. I was actually here BEFORE Google was even launched...been using the web since 1994. I won't cheer for Google until it tells me exactly how much it takes from me on clicks. If you use adsense and get 10 cents a click...who is to say that Google isn't charging the advertiser a $1. There is almost no way to be sure. And I won't be a fan of Google as long as it tries to tell me how I can make money. If I want to sell links...I am gonna sell them. Google isn't my friend...money is my friend. Google needs US more than we need them. Be sure of that. If they fall apart....another service will pick up the slack.

So well said!!! I was here before Google, too. And I have to add that, there was more money before Google... All those billions at the Big G is actually money from our pocket.

Regarding tnx: The idea was nice.,, however the service is useless as it is. Too many worthless sites in the portfolio, too many dropped domains. It simply takes too much time to check links which I bought and lost their PR at the next update.

ARNOLDSCHWARTZ

Jun 8th 2008, 6:01 pm

What is TNX?

charles224

Jun 15th 2008, 5:02 am

from TNX FAQ....

Can search engines somehow identify links sold or purchased through TNX?

Answer: There are no marks of any kind that would let search engines identify links sold or purchased through TNX. All links look like they were installed manually, so there is absolutely no way a search engine can identify your website is selling or purchasing links through the TNX system.

I guess it is possible, all the SE's have to do is register a few of their own site with TNX and then every link that appears on their sites is that of a site that is buying links.

My experience of TNX is as follows,

I have bought about a dozen links for quite competitive keywords, and sure enough I get top 10 in a matter of days, then a week or so later they disappear. I am not talking loads of links here just a dozen slowly building. I am not sure what the problem is but what I do know is that it there is something in it, just a case of finding out what is happening. Maybe I ended up on a SE website? Just clutching at straws here, it could be anything.

Ailua

Jun 15th 2008, 7:19 am

I wanna consider to use tnx service to gain my serp. But it seems that the most review was not so satisfactory then I am reconsidering to review it at the moment.

Bonus-points

Jun 16th 2008, 5:17 pm

I wanna consider to use tnx service to gain my serp. But it seems that the most review was not so satisfactory then I am reconsidering to review it at the moment.

You should consider learning more about link building instead.

TNX is just a third party between link sellers and buyers. Those who don't know a thing about link building techniques, should not buy links at all.

Bryce

Jun 16th 2008, 10:22 pm

Regarding tnx: The idea was nice.,, however the service is useless as it is. Too many worthless sites in the portfolio, too many dropped domains. It simply takes too much time to check links which I bought and lost their PR at the next update.

I totally agree, I learned my lesson with TLA last year and threw away over $2000 in six months only to have the sites I bought links for all end up at PR3/4+ naturally (because all the TLA bl's are history). Funny part is some of the sites I bought TLA's on kept me on their blogroll and vice versa. Also, I did get a lot of traffic from my TLA links/ads which is what I was really looking for, traffic, not to game Google's SERPS.

While the creators of TNX deserve respect for coming up with a good idea *and* implementing it, the fundamental concept is flawed. I'm willing to pay for automated links/ads on relative sites and I really don't care about the links being nofollow but the problems with TNX are :

1.) Links are not even remotely contextual. Why would somebody on a site for transexual vampires want to visit an MLB Baseball site ?? Plus, the authority value is lessened if the sites aren't relevant.

2.) Link prices are based on Google PR. TNX declared Google PR "unimportant" and played their hand with disallowing Google's spiders in their robots.txt (which, again, I stand behind them on their stand against Google) but why is the value of a link on a PR4 page way more valuable than a link on a PR0 page (by page, I mean interior pages).

3.) TNX could have been a "fixed price" version of Adwords and instead of having competitors bid on placement they could have sold contextual advertising on relevant sites on a rotating basis, not by the highest bidder. How could they keep publishers honest? Easy, allow the advertisers to openly rate the publisher's sites based on ad placement, traffic and other criteria. If a site gets more than a few complaints, a rep would check it out and contact the webmaster or ban the site from the system.

As far as Google PR goes, we all know it's flawed anyway. Look at all the "wordpress and joomla template" sites that are less than a year old and already PR5-6 ??? An "authority" site with PR6+ can be easily manipulated to pass an automatic PR4 to any site they choose (b5media.com ???). God knows if Matt Cutts links to you once or Michael Arrington and TechCrunch pass you a link, you're good as gold.

OK, so TNX "bucks the system" and they have the ugliest referral banners ever and the site design leaves something to be desired... If somebody came up with a solution between Adwords and TNX, I'd say it would be a smash.

Australianfranchises

Jun 16th 2008, 10:58 pm

Bonus-points

Jun 17th 2008, 2:30 am

Bryce, since you are not after SEO but genuine traffic (clicks on banners and link ads), TNX is not for you!

Bryce

Jun 17th 2008, 2:44 am

Bryce, since you are not after SEO but genuine traffic (clicks on banners and link ads), TNX is not for you!

Thanks for sharing your opinion, however, I don't feel you're in the least bit qualified to say what is or what is not for me. If you base your judgements about others solely on their posts on internet discussion forums, you've evidently quite a lot to learn about this business (especially SEO - Funny, I have tons of #1 Google SERP spots for keywords with over 2 million results without using TNX).

Once again, allow me to reiterate, a link on a site that is about werewolves is not going to pass authority to a site about affiliate marketing. Hence, my opinion about the lack of contextual placement.

While I'm on my soapbox, let me add one more point :

#5) TNX staff tends to embody a "cut off their nose to spite their face" attitude which, 9 times out of 10 will only offend the truly professional clients with deep pockets, which in turn will cause publishers to abandon the system due to lack of support that is not demeaning them for expressing their opinions.

IMHO, if a company can't take criticism or suggestions from their members, they are digging themselves into a hole and shoveling the dirt over theirown heads.

Read what I said. I have respect for TNX and have been supportive in the form of offering my unbiased opinion, not to mention I have over 30 referrals.

'nuff said....