PPC Syndication

[Bernard]

Most PPC engines do not disclose all of their syndication partners. Google has recently taken a stand against scumware (http://www.google.com/corporate/software_principles.html) so you can expect that AdWords are not synidcated through these vehicles, but AFAIK, no other PPC engine makes this guarantee.

Overture ads are syndicated to Claria's Searchscout system (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415&perpage=10&pagenumber=241#post134898). Claria claims their system offers better conversions than other advertising vehicles. But a recent study (with a very small sample size) appears to confirm that advertising on these vehicles may damage your company's brand (or reputation). If you are using Overture, does that matter to you?

[compar]

I can't imagine that "damaging your company's brand (or reputation)." doesn't matter to anyone.

If you have a business model that is not built on brand or reputation then I guess there is none to damage. But if you are looking for repeat customers or any positive word of mouth referals or advertising how could you not care?

Now the question is do pop unders actual have this impact? They are annoying, but they are also a fact of life. I'm not sure how much business they drive away, and they may actually attract some, or nobody would use them.

[Bernard]

Sorry, I didn't have the link handy when I posted originally. This is the study I was referring to:

http://www.bunnyfoot.com/popup/bunnyfoot_popup.pdf

More good stuff:Said Nate Elliott, analyst with Jupiter Research, "Currently 45 percent of leading Web sites accept pop-up ads, while 65 percent accept pop-unders. But we've noticed that number is shrinking. It's the annoyance factor. More people say they're annoyed with pop-ups than with spam."

"When you ask marketers about the pop-up ads, they say slyly that they are very effective. My response to that is Tony Soprano's methods are effective," quipped one industry observer who did not want to be identified, referring to the mobster character of a popular TV series. "Would you use them, too?"

http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/07/technology/popups_study/

[compar]

Well all I can tell you is that it is a trade off. If you go to my InfoPool (http://infopool.compar.com) site you will see something called a Flyinad every time you exite a page.

Several webmaster I have sent there have mentioned them and complained, but the fact is that they drive more traffic to new web pages I put up during the first few months than any other method I've found. So as annoying as they maybe I'm going to continue to run them until they stop delivering traffic.

[stephfoster]

I have to admit, I do use some popunders and popups, but rather minimally, I think. But I don't have faith in how many clickthroughs I would get on such an ad, so even for PPC I don't think I would want to try it.

[john_loch]

Well all I can tell you is that it is a trade off. If you go to my InfoPool (http://infopool.compar.com) site you will see something called a Flyinad every time you exite a page.

Several webmaster I have sent there have mentioned them and complained, but the fact is that they drive more traffic to new web pages I put up during the first few months than any other method I've found. So as annoying as they maybe I'm going to continue to run them until they stop delivering traffic.

Do they interfere if someone is exiting your site/page via an adsense ad ?

[Bernard]

Compar, can you determine if the traffic that is being driven by the flyinad stays for more that 10 seconds? I have always wondered what percentage of traffic driven by pop-ups/pop-unders/flyinads were just folks who weren't too swift with a mouse and missed the close button/link.

I think there is a subtle, but important difference in generating your own site relevent pop-under and advertising your site on pop-ups/unders that "plague" popular sites (and annoy the user base).

[compar]

Compar, can you determine if the traffic that is being driven by the flyinad stays for more that 10 seconds? I have always wondered what percentage of traffic driven by pop-ups/pop-unders/flyinads were just folks who weren't too swift with a mouse and missed the close button/link.
Great question Bernard. No I have never tried to track the action of visitors coming to the target site from these ads.

In fact I am not up to speed on the entire subject of this type of performance tracking. Has anyone got any suggestions on how to do this tracking without buying a $400 software application?

[Bernard]

You can do it for free by manually examining your referrer logs, but it is a pain. You should be able to import the logs into Excel which makes the job a little easier as you can sort the data on different fields.

Or you can use a conversion tracking system (which will cost some money) to determine what percentage of traffic from the ads (via tracking URLs) are converting (according to whatever the target site is trying to accomplish).

BTW, I highly recommend that anyone with a commercial site implement some form of conversion tracking. You are only achieving half of your potential is you are not measuring conversions to improve your ad and site copy.

[NewComputer]

The problem as I see it is that pop unders and ups were first used for the wrong reasons. People were downloading 'toolbars' and all kinds of junky free stuff. Had they been targeted properly and used in a constructive manner from the out set they could have been very effective, and still are in a few cases. In Compars case, the pop up is effective, but still looks 'spammy' to me. Dell has some useful pop ups on their page. Discount specials etc...
Most are blocked now with software and as developers of pop ups get better so do the developers of pop up blocking software. I know of two cases where someone working at a software company is developing blocking software during the day and at night developing news types of served ads. Talk about job security.

[Bernard]

I hope those acquaintences never get a job working for an anti-virus company. I think people like to feel in control of their internet experience and do not like anything that is forced upon them. It would make for an interesting study in psychology.

[mxlabs]

I aint into PPC at the moment but I'd expect another quality of traffic than pop-unders for sure. And as a surfer I have to say that popups in 2004 are more annoying than ever before... but maybe that is just because of the small amount which makes it through my popup-blocker ;)