Toolbar PR keeping sites in the sandbox?

[jamjv]

I know it's probably not true but I have a site that been in the sandbox for over a year and the site has 200+ inbound links. Last week I remove the google toolbar from my computer and today I noticed this site is out of the sandbox.

Any chance these are related?

The inbound links have also been live for a year, it's not like I just added them a couple weeks ago.

[Smyrl]

I run the toolbar and have never noticed a sandbox effect on new sites. Would be shocked it there was one.

Shannon

[JonahViaKeyboard]

That's probably not likely. But after a year in the sandbox, one's likely to lose one's mind, see mirages, etc.

I've been in 7 months and am going nuts.

[ephricon]

7 months and 1 year sounds like a very long sandbox time. Are you sure this is the sandbox effect and not poor rankings perhaps due to over-optimization? If your KW density is too high you may be penalized... How are you ranking on Yahoo and MSN?

[2003m2003]

Last week I remove the google toolbar from my computer and today I noticed this site is out of the sandbox.


If site had poor rank and suddenly get out from that, there should be something really interesting happen, toolbar effect or not. :confused:

[DarrenC]

poor rankings perhaps due to over-optimization? If your KW density is too high you may be penalized

Have you ever seen examples of this? I've always being worried that I use the term 'holiday' too much within one page I optimise for keywords like holiday villas, holiday cottages etc. The kw term 'holidays' is used alot, and this page was ranking high, but it struggling at the moment.

I have to agree though that 7 months and 12 months is way too long to be considered a "sandbox" issue. I've had new domains listed in Google within four-six weeks, with one or two good PR links.

[mcdar]

I know it's probably not true but I have a site that been in the sandbox for over a year and the site has 200+ inbound links. Last week I remove the google toolbar from my computer and today I noticed this site is out of the sandbox.

Any chance these are related?

The inbound links have also been live for a year, it's not like I just added them a couple weeks ago.

jamjv,

Many people use the term "sandbox" but mean different things when using it.

To some it means a page is nowhere to be found. To others, it simply means the page is not ranked well.

What position was the page in (if any) while "in the sandbox"?

What position is the page in now that it is "out of the sandbox"?

What were you doing to check the position of the page? Inputing keyword into search box in toolbar? Going to Google.com and using their search box? Using another online search tool?

Why I am asking so many questions is that there are known hacks to the Google tool bar that might have been giving you false Google returns. I have actually received junk email offering Google placement through this hacking method.

Thanks,
Caryl

[JonahViaKeyboard]

In my case (7 months) I'm fairly certain it's the sandbox. My site is www.hybridcarguide.com and I don't rank on Google for the search: hybrid car guide - much less anything else.

Using the partially functional sandbox detection tool (http://www.socengine.com/seo/tools/sandbox-results.php), I see that my site is:

Backlinks (Yahoo! LinkDomain): 77
Backlinks (MSN Beta): 330
Backlinks (Google): 41
PageRank (Google): 3

Your Position in Search Results for: hybrid car guide

Google Position: Not in Top 100
Google AllinAnchor Position: 1
Google AllinTitle Position: 1
Google AllinText Position: 1
Position @ Yahoo!: 1
Position @ MSN Beta: 1
Position @ Teoma: 1

Looks like the sandbox to me.

[minstrel]

Google Position: Not in Top 100
So now you're in the top 100? How do you know you weren't #101 yesterday?

By the way, that "partially functional sandbox detection tool" you used doesn't seem to be very accurate...

It seems unlikely to me that any change you're seeing is an effect of uninstalling the toolbar. I suggest you reinstall it and see if your site disappears again. And once you have it installed, check to see whether you are using google.com or one of the regional googles -- that's one factor that may deliver different results from the toolbar search box versus the regular google search box.

[dfsweb]

Have you ever seen examples of this? I've always being worried that I use the term 'holiday' too much within one page I optimise for keywords like holiday villas, holiday cottages etc. The kw term 'holidays' is used alot, and this page was ranking high, but it struggling at the moment.

I try not to stuff my sites with keywords, 'cos a lot of people believe that Google hates it. I have experimented a bit with high KW density and I haven't seen much effect (in the short term, at least). On the other hand, I have seen high PR sites with very low KW density ranking quite high for those keywords ..... So, I would recommend keeping KW density quite low .... perhaps two to three repetitions on the page (Keywords should definitely be in the title tag of the page) and focus on getting those quality inbound links.

[JonahViaKeyboard]

So now you're in the top 100? How do you know you weren't #101 yesterday?

By the way, that "partially functional sandbox detection tool" you used doesn't seem to be very accurate...

It seems unlikely to me that any change you're seeing is an effect of uninstalling the toolbar. I suggest you reinstall it and see if your site disappears again. And once you have it installed, check to see whether you are using google.com or one of the regional googles -- that's one factor that may deliver different results from the toolbar search box versus the regular google search box.

Minstrel,

I think you may be confused - I'm the one in the 7 month sandbox who still hasn't come out - nothing to do with the toolbar.

Does anyone think my problem might be anything other than the sandbox? Thanks.

[jamjv]

7 months and 1 year sounds like a very long sandbox time. Are you sure this is the sandbox effect and not poor rankings perhaps due to over-optimization? If your KW density is too high you may be penalized... How are you ranking on Yahoo and MSN?

It wasn't over optimization and I rank #1 on yahoo for my main keyword and #4 on msn.

Like I said It's probably not the reason but I found it strange that it happened.

[spamfork]

The toolbar is wise. I'd love some more discussion from others who have been toying with the toolbar effects. The toolbar does notify google's bots of a page to index.

Anyone done testing on:
Search for a particular keyword phrase and then scroll down the google results and click on your listing. (Do not click back to google and / or test clicking from other sites and clicking back to google and then not clicking back from your site. If this happens X number of times over a consistent period of time will it potentially help your google position on that phrase? If so then google's toolbar helps others find the best sites by understanding what other people deem to be what they are looking for when they conduct a particular keyword search. Would love to have someone who has done a test tell me about any of their findings.

[minstrel]

Search for a particular keyword phrase and then scroll down the google results and click on your listing. (Do not click back to google and / or test clicking from other sites and clicking back to google and then not clicking back from your site. If this happens X number of times over a consistent period of time will it potentially help your google position on that phrase?
No. Whether it's you clicking on your listing or someone else clicking on your listing, it will not help.

[dfsweb]

No. Whether it's you clicking on your listing or someone else clicking on your listing, it will not help.

I agree with Minstrel. If this was the case, then the top 10 ranked sites would always stay in the top 10, as more people would be clicking on those sites than others.