can someone explain Adword's average position system

[wingdude]

I will soon start my Adwords campaign so I decided to dive in and try out their max. bids tool. I was a bit confused however by the way google calculates your average position. My specific questions are:

1. What does your average position mean.
2. How can you get an average position of a ' point soemthing number' like 1.3

Thanks in advance

[JonahViaKeyboard]

1: Average position is proximity to the top of the page. A position of 1 is at the top. Positions cannot be <1.

2: If for a 3 given searches, your ad appears in positions 1, 1, and 2, your average position would be 1.3. The ads Google displays vary per searh. Some searches may introduce competitors that come in above you. Some searches may introduce your ad into results where your position is lower than you may expect. Ads served varies depending on your match type and geographic setting and the geographic settings and match types of your competitors.

[wingdude]

So, looking at it another way, if the average position was 1.0 and the average CPC was £2.01 does that mean the previous max bidder was bidding £2.00. Then if your average position 2 and your CPC was £1.50 then the second bidder bid £1.49. Is that how it works, if it does you could determine what the real bids are for every kewords?

[JonahViaKeyboard]

Kind of. Yes, if for a given click you payed 2.01 then the max bid of the person in the RANK (not position) below you's max bid was 2.00 for that given search.

Unlike Overture, Google takes more than just your max bid into account in determining your position. They first calculate what they call your rank, where rank = Max Bix x CTR. Then they compare that to the rank of other ads. Whoever has the higher rank has the higher position.

You pay .01 more than the person with the max bid directly below you, who may not have a lower position than you have (because position is affected by CTR).

Google does not let you see the CTR or the Max bix of any account other than your own, making it very hard to guess the max bid of a competitor.

[compar]

Wingdude,

All this information is in the AdWords FAQ. Why don't you spend some time there and then ask any questions here that require further clarification.

The other thing that would help with all your threads and questions about AdWords/AdSense is if you would tell us what it is you plan to do with this information when you get it. I get the sense that you are looking to maximize your potential AdSense income, but at times the nature of your questions make it sound like you are looking for some way to cheat the system.

Remember many of us are AdWords advertiser. If you cheat the system it is really us you are cheating or stealing from, not Google.

Just out of interest some of us don't think #1 position for AdWords is necessarily the best position, we have seen better click through rates in second or third position.

[wingdude]

Well if I was going to use Adwords, which I will soon, I'm going ot need all the help I can get. I'm interested in the Adsense part of it because for a long time many people have been looking for an accurate list like Overture's and I was wondering if I has stumbled on to it. Google's FAQ still left me a bit confused which is why I posted

[JonahViaKeyboard]

They'll teach you everything you could possibly want to know and more here:

http://www.google.com/adwords/learningcenter/

Google has lessons explaining how their system works - just one more reason why their system dominates Overture's

[compar]

Well if I was going to use Adwords, which I will soon, I'm going ot need all the help I can get. I'm interested in the Adsense part of it because for a long time many people have been looking for an accurate list like Overture's and I was wondering if I has stumbled on to it. Google's FAQ still left me a bit confused which is why I posted
How is the AdSense part of it got anything to do with a list like Overture? I think you are completely confused in regards to this.

The closest you can come to the Overture or Wordtracker list -- BTW have you seen the Digital Point Keyword Tool (http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/suggestion/) -- with AdWords is to place a theoretical high bid on a search term and Google will forecast how much that will cost you per day. This is a sort of backwards count of the number of searches per day for that term.

[JonahViaKeyboard]

Compar,

As both an AdWords advertiser and AdSense publisher, I have to agree with you. People who try to game AdSense just ruin it for everyone. As advertisers see ROI drop from contextual advertising, they'll pull out (as I have sometimes been forced to do) and that hurts AdSense revenues for everyone.

Play fair and everyone wins.

[wingdude]

I undestand this, thanks for your comments, I just wondered how using you could get a secimal average position with 1 specific search term if everything else had been calculated, surely you can't be position 1.2 on the ad list?

[Kia81]

Adsense has different matching options, so for example you choose to use phrase match for a word like "blue shoes". Your ad might be number 1 for that keyword, but number 2 for "blue nike shoes". I guess Google will average those two out.

[compar]

Adsense has different matching options, so for example you choose to use phrase match for a word like "blue shoes". Your ad might be number 1 for that keyword, but number 2 for "blue nike shoes". I guess Google will average those two out.
What? That is complete garbage as far as I can understand. First of all I think you mean AdWords not AdSense in that AdSense doesn't have any "matching options".

Now I'm not sure what you mean by matching options even if you are talking about AdWords, but the answer to 1.3 or any other average placement is simple to understand. Google rotates the placement of the ads depending on a variety of things, price bid being only one of them. So if in 10 searches for your keyword phrase your ad happened to be placed in position: 3, 4, 3, 2, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1, 2. then you average position would have been 2.9. The sum of all you placements divided by 10. Why is that hard to understand? It is no different than the average family having 2.3 children.

[Kia81]

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful. I did mean Adwords and not Adsense. I have no problem with being corrected, maybe my assumption about Adwords was off, I accept that. I'll apologize to wingdude If I did have a flaw in my reasoning. But compar you were a bit harse in your reply to what I said. I never disrespected anyone on here, and I deserve the same respect. I'm just trying to be helpful and also learn from other webmasters.

[compar]

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful. I did mean Adwords and not Adsense. I have no problem with being corrected, maybe my assumption about Adwords was off, I accept that. I'll apologize to wingdude If I did have a flaw in my reasoning. But compar you were a bit harse in your reply to what I said. I never disrespected anyone on here, and I deserve the same respect. I'm just trying to be helpful and also learn from other webmasters.
I didn't disrespect you. I just said your answer was garbage. The first requirement in being helpful is to write accurately and know what you are talking about. Your answer was the exact opposite of helpful. It could do nothing but confuse and misinform.

My mother use to tell me if I didn't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I would suggest a variation on that advice for you. If you don't know what the hell you are talking about shut up!

[Kia81]

I agree, that If I'm not sure about the advice I'm giving I should not give it. Maybe that was my fault being new to a forum. I'll take your advice and remember it, thats whats forums are for. I see you have alot of post so you must be well respected here. Thanks, and I apologize to anyone who may have been confused about what I said.

[compar]

I agree, that If I'm not sure about the advice I'm giving I should not give it. Maybe that was my fault being new to a forum. I'll take your advice and remember it, thats whats forums are for. I see you have alot of post so you must be well respected here. Thanks, and I apologize to anyone who may have been confused about what I said.
That was a class response. I apologize for being so direct. Hope we see lots more of you on the forum. I certainly would never want to frighten you away.

How are things in Southern Califoirnia? It's cold as hell in my part of Canada.

[Kia81]

thanks compar I sent you a private message.

[JonahViaKeyboard]

Just to add - AdWords does have a function they call matching options. These are the keyword options they call 'broad' 'phrase' 'negative' 'exact' and the rarely used 'embedded' matching options.

Google's lesson on matching options: http://services.google.com/adwords/gap?lesson=2d

[wingdude]

Thanks everyone, very useful information, I'll keep you posted when my site goes live.

[John2005]

So if in 10 searches for your keyword phrase your ad happened to be placed in position: 3, 4, 3, 2, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1, 2. then you average position would have been 2.9. The sum of all you placements divided by 10. Why is that hard to understand? It is no different than the average family having 2.3 children.

Can you explain what in the practice the figure 19.5 means? Of course, for two searches with positions 19 and 20 it gives average position 19.5=(19+20)/2. I have figures such as 51.3; 44.8 etc. But what does that mean?

As I know google shows no more than 10 ads at the same time. I cannot imagine where position with number 51 is placed.

[T0PS3O]

The counting continues on page 2, 3, 4 etc. Not as simple as that but that is basically it. It doesn't stop after SERPage 1.

So it just means you need to bid higher to get your ad shown to the bulk of searchers.

[John2005]

Thanks. It's clear now.

John

[ryanturner.com]

I agree. I think the systems in place are fair and well designed - its just knowing how to manage them and utilize them efficiently and honestly that's going to make the difference.

[bahaus_22]

Hello gents!

Quick question... I also was left with questions after watching all of the adwords tutorial videos. I have always been told that its good to keep rankings for ppc ad's from 1-5 and regardless if thats good or bad, generally they have lower placement because of low CTR or no clicks at all? I am waiting to soak up all the wisdom of you gents!

thanks!

p.s. - I am new to the forums, be easy on me, lol

[nuttymarketer]

Someone out there has pointed that the Adsense Network is bit different than
the real Adword network. Now I am saying about the Content Network.

IS there anybody who is targetting Content Network Exclusively. Well I am doing this for quite a few weeks and seeing the mix result. People say the result is abysymally low. I accept that. But what I am doing is target the audience very specifically and I am using a lot of Negative words.

Is there anyone else who is discovering GEms out of Rugs.

Arvind Kumar

[john269]

Thanks for the Link! I have been work Adwords for about 6 months now, but have only advertised a little within it and have had totally no success what so ever.

I now want to look more into it as I want more traffic to my site and maybe even sites, that's if it all goes well.

They'll teach you everything you could possibly want to know and more here:

http://www.google.com/adwords/learningcenter/

Google has lessons explaining how their system works - just one more reason why their system dominates Overture's