Very sloppy update for Q1 - 2008

[Bryce]

Has anybody else with multiple websites found this update to be very sloppy and just totally hit or miss ? I'm not complaining as I operate over 60 sites so there's bound to be some discrepencies but overall, this update was one of the most odd and unpredictable update I've ever seen from Google.

For example, I have interior pages outweighing the main index of several sites. I also have sites that used to occupy the #1 spot in the SERP's for niche terms drop off the radar and sites that I didn't even bother to SEO work their way to the top of the SERPs.

Also, Google's backlink count for 90% of my sites is totally off. For example, I have one site that Yahoo is showing 6000+ backlinks for and Google is only showing 1300+ in Webmasters Tools and only 230 using the link: command.

As I stated above, with as many sites as I have, I'm used to some volatility during a Google update... Please share your experiences and maybe we can all figure out what the heck just happened.

[Cryspatus]

A few of the blog posts I have that had no backlinks went up in PR, and some of the ones with hundreds of backlinks either stayed the same or went down. I just started a new website that has only had one page indexed, and its a random page thats far in the archives, not the home page... Google is definitely acting strange

[jamieellis]

My site just went #11 to #5... then back to #11 again after about an hour. Things changed a lot then everything went back to exactly as it was before.

Wierd.

[billybw]

I also see higher PR on the inner pages of two of my sites even though nearly all of the backlinks come into the home pages. It's illogical and mathematically impossible for this to happen if the PR calculations are done correctly. So either these are calculation errors by Google's algo, or possibly the update isn't over yet and the discrepancies will be corrected in a few days.

[conker_on_net]

I am looking forward to this update being over. There is some strange stuff going on and G seems a bit unsettled.

[ruffnat]

sounds to me like google is experimenting with things to try to get rid of sites that are trying to game the integrity of their algorithm

it is interesting that you say that sites that you "didn't even bother to SEO" are showing improvements .... when you think about it, that is the way google intended it in the first place

[Bryce]

I agree with you ruffnat but it seems like every time they try to fix something they end up breaking three other things in the process. I don't really mind because I use only approved techniques but I'm puzzled by the random application of PR to some of my sub-pages and not all on an even basis ????

@conker_on_net, it looks like (to me anyway) that the update is complete. I haven't seen any real changes since Friday evening. Has anybody else seen changes occuringover the weekend or do you think it's over for now ?

[minstrel]

sounds to me like google is experimenting with things to try to get rid of sites that are trying to game the integrity of their algorithm

it is interesting that you say that sites that you "didn't even bother to SEO" are showing improvements .... when you think about it, that is the way google intended it in the first place

Good point. And I think you might be right.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of change except with three smallish niche directories. One of them (the newest, smallest, least developed, and least promoted) was off-line for a while around the time of the previous update and has been showing the "gray" toolbar PR graph (PageRank not available), while the other two were PR4 and PR3 if memory serves ( the PR3 might have been PR2). As of a couple of days ago, the previously "gray PR" one (still very much a kind of "under construction, no real promotion" site) is showing PR4 while the other two have gone to gray bar.

Wierd.

Edit: Actually, I just did some further checking and my main Psychlinks site has gone to PR5 after languishing at PR4 for 2 years. I guess I'll stop complaining. :o

[trichnosis]

in my opinion, google is currently trying a new algo. and this update was the preversion of that algo. change

[dman_2007]

Whatever they are trying, it is not working correctly. One of my sites has 5150 backlinks according to yahoo, 1776 backlinks according to google webmasters tool and 176 according to google, yet it has pr 0.

[ryan_xj]

My site used to be at the top 20 with the homepage, then changes to a deeplink and drop one spot.. thats weird!

[jakomo]

Hello,
Yes something rare happen here, one of my site got PR4 and got the backlink update, but at the same time gone from Google, coincidence or not? I do not know

Best,
Jakomo

[ketan725]

looks like....... google shows only backlinks for my site. no pr.

[mhmdkhamis]

this update not finished yet
i hope it finish to see all result to all sites

[wokaka]

I get PR 4 although I only expected PR 2 for my new site. Strangely, my older site is still PR 3 although I get big jump in my SERPs in the last 2 months. Strange? Yes, of course!

[1websitedesign]

i have page rank 3 and it,s showing 66 links in the link command

[nebraskaemarketing]

I noticed that my PR 4 Stumbleupon Blog has dropped to grey bar. del.icio.us too. Strange

[adamx8]

Bryce, I operate 72 websites and you're right...it is a hit and run right now. I am holding tight though and staying on the ride. Some times it's instant and sometimes it's not, but truthfully this is the first update with this many websites so I guess it is to be expected. I compare it to Santa...he doesn't visit all the boys and girls at once, he does it through the night.

[fromkhun]

Most of mine site remain the same.

[fadetoblack22]

My site just went #11 to #5... then back to #11 again after about an hour. Things changed a lot then everything went back to exactly as it was before.

Wierd.

The Pr update won't affect your SERP rankings. Even if PR did you would see the results when your site received link juice. The PR update is just a visible update to the public so they can see a number.

[Bryce]

I noticed that my PR 4 Stumbleupon Blog has dropped to grey bar. del.icio.us too. Strange

Yeah, my Stumbleupon page was PR3 and it's now a greybar as well. Again, this update is very strange. I'm not complaining because for as many minor inconveniences I saw in my sites, I did make some headway with others. I'd hate to be a webmaster with only one site or blog though because these updates are getting too unpredictable.

[CanadianEh]

I am seeing http://www.technorati.com/ as PR0 on my Google toolbar. It will be interesting if it sticks.

[ruffnat]

I am seeing http://www.technorati.com/ as PR0 on my Google toolbar. It will be interesting if it sticks.

depending on where I check, I get pr0 on multiple dcs, pr1 on multiple dcs, and occasionally pr8

my own toolbar says pr0

[corlock]

I don't pay really much attention about this latest update...still focusing more on SERP ranking and driving traffic...

[FREE BET]

Well I like the fact that the social pages dropped in rank...(the comment sides.....) it really does show a more realistic view...

[abraxas]

I am seeing http://www.technorati.com/ as PR0 on my Google toolbar. It will be interesting if it sticks.

It appears "unranked" on my toolbar, but not sure if the update is over or if there wont be another one soon...

[bestsoftworks]

I have seen no changes on my site. I'm assuming it will take them several days to complete all the updates.

[Bryce]

I am seeing http://www.technorati.com/ as PR0 on my Google toolbar. It will be interesting if it sticks.

It's showing as a greybar for me :eek: and the highest internal page I can find is PR1, the rest are greybar or PR0.

Could the update be still going on? I thought it was over??

[ruffnat]

maybe something in google's algorithm that is designed to penalize many sites somehow got technorati caught up in it, and google will do something manual to fix that one (because it is high profile)??

[Bryce]

Yeah, but it still doesn't make it right that smaller webmasters get penalized and the bigshots get a "fix" from Google just like Copyblogger did last update because he's a part of B5Media. Doesn't seem too fair on Google's part. Oh well, their stock fell 17 points today, probably more tomorrow. Hope Matt Cutts cashed out his stock options because people are shorting Google at under 600 per share before February (hehe, I am one of them)...

[ruffnat]

I agree with you, it sucks because so many of us that do things the honest way end up getting the short end of the stick and google only fixes their mistakes on a small percentage of sites (high profile ones), and the rest of us are left with sites that are crippled through no fault of our own

[wokaka]

I agree with you, it sucks because so many of us that do things the honest way end up getting the short end of the stick and google only fixes their mistakes on a small percentage of sites (high profile ones), and the rest of us are left with sites that are crippled through no fault of our own

Yes, you are right. This is sux but this is life.

[ericfromandys]

For my site, my page rank has been 4 for two years, yet my backlinks in webmaster tools have doubled since I first started monitoring them a little over a year ago. My organic results are fine, but it is funny how there is a psychological effect to not seeing your pagerank on the toolbar go up when you feel like you've earned it. Any way, the only change I've noticed in this update is that the link: operator count changed a week ago.

[CanadianEh]

For my site, my page rank has been 4 for two years, yet my backlinks in webmaster tools have doubled since I first started monitoring them a little over a year ago. My organic results are fine, but it is funny how there is a psychological effect to not seeing your pagerank on the toolbar go up when you feel like you've earned it. Any way, the only change I've noticed in this update is that the link: operator count changed a week ago.

Most sites have a lot more links these days so it takes relatively more links to keep a PR4 than it did a couple of years ago.

[DLGx]

One of my sites got dumped 100 positions back, again, and lost 75% traffic. Happens every time google does a major update.

[daones]

Same here.. I really expected to improve my PR2 site.. I moved up considerably in SERP rankings and doubled my backlinks and picked up a few higher PR backlinks and received no PR improvement.. must be an error if you ask me because I would of at least expected PR3. My blog which I barely did any link building for expect social networks got a PR2 from 0.

[DLGx]

I have a lot of interior pages/subpages on the domain ranking way higher than the mainpage or main section pages for stuff. Guess it's google's way of "improving" their search index.

[Bryce]

One of my sites got dumped 100 positions back, again, and lost 75% traffic. Happens every time google does a major update.

I hate it when that happens, hopefully you'll get your rank back in the next update. I lost two PR5 sites (dropped to PR3) and loss of 50% traffic in the last update (and I never sold links on those sites) but both are at least back to PR4 now and I'm seeing an influx of traffic. Luckily none of my major earning sites got whacked this update, only one site I was doing a community service (go figure).

[joey112]

Guys this isn't an official update. Google do this a couple of weeks before every update. You will notice the PR of your sites changing from 2 to 3 to 4 and back to 2. Don't expect it to be stable. But i can see another PR update the first, Q1 of 2008 to be within a fortnight. Especially since the last one was so delayed.

[NetMidWest]

For example, I have interior pages outweighing the main index of several sites. I also have sites that used to occupy the #1 spot in the SERP's for niche terms drop off the radar and sites that I didn't even bother to SEO work their way to the top of the SERPs.

I also see higher PR on the inner pages of two of my sites even though nearly all of the backlinks come into the home pages. It's illogical and mathematically impossible for this to happen if the PR calculations are done correctly. So either these are calculation errors by Google's algo, or possibly the update isn't over yet and the discrepancies will be corrected in a few days.

Sounds to me like billybw has this problem (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=649751). (There is a link in that thread to a tool to find those higher PR interior pages.) Are yours doing the same, Bryce?

Guys this isn't an official update. Google do this a couple of weeks before every update. You will notice the PR of your sites changing from 2 to 3 to 4 and back to 2. Don't expect it to be stable. But i can see another PR update the first, Q1 of 2008 to be within a fortnight. Especially since the last one was so delayed.
You are thinking of a canonical update (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/canonicalization-update/). I don't think this one was, but with the flaws I am seeing, we will probably see a canonicalization update soon, followed by another PR update if they stick to patterns I have noticed before...

[ron21]

my blog got PR 0 from PR 3 because its all out going links! no backlinks coming from it! The PR update this time won't do such impact compare to last update!

[amitfan]

I cannot even say if PR update started for me as none of my 5/6 sites show any changes. Well they do show a tendency of disappearing from serps and then returning back when big G wishes them to see there.

One of my sites disappeared 3 days ago and am still hoping for it to come back one day.

[Bryce]

Sounds to me like billybw has this problem (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=649751). (There is a link in that thread to a tool to find those higher PR interior pages.) Are yours doing the same, Bryce?


Only on one of my sites but that one has a site, forums and a blog on it but the blog and forums are ranking the highest even though the main page has 10x more backlinks to it than the blog or forums.

[angilina]

I was hoping to get a higher PR, but still My site remains PR2, very disappointed

[CanisMajoris]

I don't have a clue why you people seem so obsessed by PR here but as far as serps are concerned, it seems to have stabilized and everything back to normal on my side.

[trocobob]

The strange thing , is that Only my new site have changed his PR
other sites stayed the same

[snowbird]

I don't have a clue why you people seem so obsessed by PR here but as far as serps are concerned, it seems to have stabilized and everything back to normal on my side.

Probably because PR is one of many factors, used by Google, to determine where ones pages appear in the SERPS.

PageRank reflects Google's view of the importance of web pages by considering more than 500 million variables and 2 billion terms. Pages that Google believes are important pages receive a higher PageRank and are more likely to appear at the top of the search results.

Source: http://www.google.com/corporate/tech.html

[Bryce]

I don't have a clue why you people seem so obsessed by PR here but as far as serps are concerned, it seems to have stabilized and everything back to normal on my side.

The two unnecessary evils in selling advertising on your website are PR and Alexa rank. Let me also remind you that the vast majority of webmasters covet PR and if you don't believe me that PR is important, go try trading links with a PR3+ site using a PR0 site and see how far you get.

btw, I don't think anybody on this thread is "obsessed", please take a look at the thread title again and notice this discussion is not specifically about PR but about the sloppiness and unpredictable results from this update.

[seo daddy]

The strange thing , is that Only my new site have changed his PR
other sites stayed the same

Ive noticed exactly the same thing :confused:

Well, its not a new site but its never been SEOd and is a hobby forum.
It was PR 0 last time I checked and now its a PR5 :D

Another site I have worked very hard to SEO, is stuck on a poxy PR2 :eek: maybe Google is now giving lots of love to unoptimised sites? :)

[Serega]

I have website with unique content and Google either adds or deletes backlinks once a week. SERP constantly changes. I guess Google has unstable random from some list

[CanisMajoris]

Probably because PR is one of many factors, used by Google, to determine where ones pages appear in the SERPS.

I meant the fake entertainment green bar you see in your toolbar, the one that does not reflect your true "link popularity". You will never really know your real PR(tm) :rolleyes:

"Page Rank" is just rhetorics, things that google is good at it seems. A nice-sounding name that sounded nice a few years ago. MSN, YAHOO and almost all other search engines base their serp algorithm on backlinks.




Source: http://www.google.com/corporate/tech.html

But of course :D

[CanisMajoris]

The two unnecessary evils in selling advertising on your website are PR and Alexa rank. Let me also remind you that the vast majority of webmasters covet PR and if you don't believe me that PR is important, go try trading links with a PR3+ site using a PR0 site and see how far you get.

I agree and have had countless experiences with this issue. It's quite sad, when you think most webmasters running after a fake green bar instead of 'relevancy'.

[igme]

I was hoping to get a higher PR, but still My site remains PR2, very disappointed

Google still give me he same PR but I'm still waiting for Google to give me a high PR.

[Bryce]

I agree and have had countless experiences with this issue. It's quite sad, when you think most webmasters running after a fake green bar instead of 'relevancy'.

To me it makes little or no sense to judge trading a link with an appropriate site because their current pagerank is PR0 or less than yours. From my experience, when my sites were PR0, I tried to get a few PR2-4 sites in my niches to trade with me and 90% of them refused. Now, after my the same sites of mine are PR3 and PR4, I'm finding the same people who refused to trade with me previously wanting to trade with me now because I have a higer PR than them.

Personally, if I like a particular site, I'll trade a link with them. Why not? I don't care what PR they are or what Google rates them, I like to provide my visitors with relevant information and links. This way, you build community and friends.

[windtalker]

This was a very sloppy pr update. I have some sites with higher pagerank, but Google never finished updating pagerank for some high level internal pages.

[seo daddy]

This was a very sloppy pr update. I have some sites with higher pagerank, but Google never finished updating pagerank for some high level internal pages.

I agree totally.
Very poor results for me overall :(

[Bryce]

Somebody from Denmark just commented on my blog that they're still seeing updates in progress so that makes me wonder if it's over yet?? Is anybody in the US seeing any fluctuations still ? I haven't seen any changes since the weekend before last.

[seo daddy]

Somebody from Denmark just commented on my blog that they're still seeing updates in progress so that makes me wonder if it's over yet?? Is anybody in the US seeing any fluctuations still ? I haven't seen any changes since the weekend before last.

Thats interesting to hear Bryce....

Im uk and Ive not noticed any change since yesterday when once site gained pR. but the sites I expected to go up, have not!!! yet..

[joey112]

Somebody from Denmark just commented on my blog that they're still seeing updates in progress so that makes me wonder if it's over yet?? Is anybody in the US seeing any fluctuations still ? I haven't seen any changes since the weekend before last.

Yes we are still seeing updates, im currently experiencing them.

I have come to the conclusion that the sloppy updates are just tweaking by google. And there will be a big PR update within a couple of weeks.

[seo daddy]

Yes we are still seeing updates, im currently experiencing them.

I have come to the conclusion that the sloppy updates are just tweaking by google. And there will be a big PR update within a couple of weeks.

I hope your right Joey112 :)

[joey112]

I hope your right Joey112 :)

Yeh well they have done this before all the major updates. And people haven't realised until the update actually occurs.

I know im right. :D

[kenbrower]

I am seeing http://www.technorati.com/ as PR0 on my Google toolbar. It will be interesting if it sticks.

lol, yup, technorati is a grey bar for me, 6 days later..