Copy of Coop?

a389951l

Dec 16th 2004, 4:45 am

Ned is the admin for the copy coop and also a forum member here at digitalpoint.

It was bound to happen but it is such a direct copy of the coop. Directions, code, implementation. Maybe I am jumping the gun here, but only Ned can explain how it is different than THE COOP?

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 4:46 am

I just signed up as #47

It's a complete rip, but I couldn't care less...

Another network= More links ;)

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 6:05 am

Hi all,

Yes that’s my work, however, it’s not a rip of anything. I would never rip off someone else’s code, I’ve had it done to me and it’s not nice.

Some of it is similar I agree (mainly because that’s the only efficient way to do it in php) but I did everything from scratch myself, the weighting system is different (i presume since all of Shaun’s code is hidden) but has the same purpose/end result, in fact most of it different. If you log in you'll see how different it is.

Obviously the main purpose is the same. To display text links/banners with no click through scripts, the code is bound to be similar as Shaun has coded his in the most efficient way to do it and so have I.

I didn’t mean to cause offence and hopefully I haven’t.

Cheers,

Ned

leeds1

Dec 16th 2004, 7:08 am

are you banning dodgy sites (porn, casinos etc etc) ?

Sven

Dec 16th 2004, 7:22 am

are you banning dodgy sites (porn, casinos etc etc) ?

hmmm, taken from http://www.yourcan.com/?page=about

For your peace of mind ads are reviewed so there wont be adult, gambling or illegal/unethical sites within the ad rotation.

Not signed up so I don't know if they have ad validation or if they let them live *then* review them...

Which makes a interesting point. Although ads have to be validated on digital coop network sites do not (?) Therefore if I had a really nasty spammy naughty site I can signup and put ads on....Is that bad?

mopacfan

Dec 16th 2004, 7:23 am

That's what I'd like to know. What level of 'respectability' will there be in you're CAN? I don't want gambling, porn or other shady sites advertising on mine.

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 7:30 am

All adverts are reviewed before going live. So no dodgy, porn, gambling , e.t.c ads will ever be shown.

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 7:32 am

Do you plan on starting a second network especially for those kind of sites?

T0PS3O

Dec 16th 2004, 7:33 am

John Loch has got those covered I believe... Launch in 2 months (gut feeling someone might beat him to it).

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 7:37 am

Do you plan on starting a second network especially for those kind of sites?

Never really thought about that, certainly a good idea.

Wonder how much interest there would be.

Damn Shame porncan.com is taken though hehe

T0PS3O

Dec 16th 2004, 7:41 am

You can register .coop domains...

Bargain for the first one to register ad-network.coop or network.coop (both available, I checked).

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 7:42 am

John Loch has got those covered I believe... Launch in 2 months (gut feeling someone might beat him to it).The more the merrier...
Wonder how much interest there would be.A lot from me.

Sven

Dec 16th 2004, 7:49 am

You can register .coop domains...

Bargain for the first one to register ad-network.coop or network.coop (both available, I checked).

Expensive though, and there are restrictions

Sven

Dec 16th 2004, 7:49 am

You can register .coop domains...

Bargain for the first one to register ad-network.coop or network.coop (both available, I checked).

LOVE your avatar :)

T0PS3O

Dec 16th 2004, 7:51 am

Thanks and merry Christmas and all that stuff. Wish you all a lot of weight (co-op that is)...

Sven

Dec 16th 2004, 7:58 am

Thanks and merry Christmas and all that stuff. Wish you all a lot of weight (co-op that is)...

People normally try and lose weight over Christmas, and here I am trying to gain it ;)

a389951l

Dec 16th 2004, 8:25 am

Now that would be a bit different. Allowing a coop just for non-mainstream sites.

dazzlindonna

Dec 16th 2004, 9:23 am

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 9:37 am

No, because it is still in alpha as far as I know.

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 10:14 am

I'm gonna have a little think on how it would best to do it and might launch something next week depending on the outcome of my brainstorming.

mopacfan

Dec 16th 2004, 10:17 am

So Ned, what about an ASP version?

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 10:25 am

Being worked on already. Should be done in a day or 2.

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 10:25 am

And ColdFusion

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 10:32 am

Don't know the slighest thing about CF, having said that I didn;t on ASP until yesterday, and i'm doing ok atm considering the asp port is 50% done :P

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 10:35 am

ColdFusion is a MarkUp language, so isn't that difficult to learn (Although I don't know it) :rolleyes:

mopacfan

Dec 16th 2004, 10:47 am

CF is nearly identical to ASP in it's format and implementation. Just in CF, you can create your own tags. The down side is it costs $5,000 for a server license. ASP is free :)

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 11:05 am

Are there that many cf users?

SEbasic

Dec 16th 2004, 11:12 am

There are quite a few...

FYI>> The Development server for CF (http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/) is free.

I have most stuff produced in CF.

john_loch

Dec 16th 2004, 11:45 am

I've been thinking about a non-mainstream site coop ever since the coop ad network came out. It would definitely be useful to those webmasters. What's the deal on John Loch? Does he have a url for his soon to be released version?

The work I'm doing is definitely still in alpha, and original in it's approach to ad/theme management (it pretty much has to be if all the bases are going to be covered.)

As for a discreet url, I haven't even bothered yet. For me the process is the most important aspect, the window dressing (and branding/domain) can come when I go to beta.

All I can say is I hope people have learned from Shauns experience. It's one thing to drop reworked clixchange code on a shared host, another entirely to run a coop as Shaun is doing. The time involved just to manage it as it grows will bring a quick end to most.

Good things take time.

For those who've expressed interest in the project, I do appreciate it, and when I need assistance testing the beta rollout, I'll contact you.

***Actually - it's time I DID get a domain together for this project, and throw up a forum or the like so ppl can actually ask for features. If ever there was a time to do it, this is prolly it :)

Cheers,

JL

dazzlindonna

Dec 16th 2004, 12:00 pm

I agree that it must be an incredibly time-consuming project and one I would certainly never want to take on. I think a very well thought out FAQ would be essential. In any case, I've just been thinking about it and saying, "you know, somebody should do that", and it's good to see somebody is.

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 12:08 pm

Certainly took a hell of a lot of coding to get it up and running, not to mention server costs. Hopefully be worth it in the end.

Cardplayer

Dec 16th 2004, 1:25 pm

Yes that’s my work, however, it’s not a rip of anything. I would never rip off someone else’s code, I’ve had it done to me and it’s not nice.

Some of it is similar I agree (mainly because that’s the only efficient way to do it in php) but I did everything from scratch myself...

I started to signup, but noticed the "yourcan.php" file is almost line-for-line identical to a prior version of DigitalPoint's own "ad_network.php". Changing variable names does not make something into original code. Claiming that this code is "from scratch" is just plain dishonest.

In participating in this type of Coop network, its paramount to have trust in the administator of it. Will the weighting be fair, or will the admin use it to his own advantage? Would my site's content and code be next on the copy machine? I'm all for building links using multiple coops, but I'll be staying away from this one.

Ned

Dec 16th 2004, 1:57 pm

It may well be similar, but thats because they are ALL standard PHP functions.

Read a file, write to a file, split a string up into an array, e.t.c are all standard php functions. Hence why it looks the same. The yourcan.php is likt 0.5% of the code of the system. The rest of the system there is no way its shauns code as I can't see his source code, and even if I could I wouldn't use it.

szy

Dec 16th 2004, 3:36 pm

And, hard to believe, we've found today another copy of Coop in Poland...

Are all this networks based on a script on GNU/GPL? Are they really written by someone of you, Ned, Shawn?

Szy.

a389951l

Dec 16th 2004, 3:43 pm

I am sure underneath the hood of the car that the code is yours of course. But when a person looks at two similar cars that look, feel and drive the same what do expect people to say? Yeah the engine is different for sure but everything appears to be the same. The only apparent difference is your weighting system but even that has some similarities. It would have been great if it was unique in some way but that is just my opinion.

In any case, good luck with it. Diversity is a good thing :)! One shouldn't be too dependent on any one network anyway.

john_loch

Dec 16th 2004, 9:58 pm

If I may comment folks, the client side code (no matter which what coop) is bound to be simillar, given it's role, and importantly, management of that role - ie eval file, eval time, grab and insert etc.

Really folks, you're going to find simillarities no matter how you go.

I mean, a BMW is a BMW regardless of the paint job. It comes down to how well the engine has been reworked, and whether it can even hold a candle to a Hummer ;)

That said, WM confidence is absolutely everything.
Without it, a coop will go nowhere.

Cheers,

JL

Sven

Dec 17th 2004, 10:35 am

john_loch

Dec 17th 2004, 10:58 am

Bit confused. What you mean is a coop for porn/gambling/'naughty' sites?

Not sure if you're asking DD or me, but..

Basically yes. Not exclusively those themes, but management that allows you to set up 'cells' or theme group/objects is what I'm doing. You then apply them to your site/s. So if you run an adult ad and someone has associated adult themes with their site, those ads can appear on their site. It just depends on what you're willing to carry on your site.

It'll all become clearer once I go to beta and ppl can have a poke around - but that's not going to happen for at least another 2 months.

Something like this has to be done properly, WM confidence is everything :)

Oh, yeah, I'll be posting the new domain shortly where I've a forum for those interested in the project. Ppl can discuss features they'd like to see or discuss other emerging coops etc.

Cheers,

JL

dazzlindonna

Dec 17th 2004, 11:14 am

Yes, Fira that is what I meant - sites that would normally not be approved by family-friendly sites.

JonahViaKeyboard

Dec 17th 2004, 2:00 pm

Not sure about everyone else, but I'd be a little reserved in joining a small network. The fewer sites there are signed up, the more conspicuous the linking patterns are to engines. Even the link farms of search king had a few hundred sites, I think.

Personally, I'll wait to join a startup network.

SEbasic

Dec 17th 2004, 2:51 pm

The DP Coop started off small...

Sven

Dec 17th 2004, 11:48 pm

The DP Coop started off small...

How many are in DP coop now?

SEbasic

Dec 18th 2004, 3:58 am

I think It's over the 2000 mark now, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

Sven

Dec 18th 2004, 10:33 am

I think It's over the 2000 mark now, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

Be interested to hear numbers of signups who are validated.....

expat

Dec 18th 2004, 11:50 am

great let there be choice....
copy or no copy who cares small or big whats the difference

the original helped to educate countless webservants of what is possible, archivable and what is actually under the hood of their ISP/hosting.

So with choice comming on stream we the actual users are back in the driving seat.

Each of these clones will atract a different slant of sites may have different rules etc. So now we have a choice of how many of each we show.

Not to forget for the very carefull (or cash strapped) that happen to have multiple sites on one server / IP there are now multiple coops to use.

M

PS Well done ... best of luck

Will.Spencer

Dec 18th 2004, 12:11 pm

And, hard to believe, we've found today another copy of Coop in Poland...

What is the URL?

szy

Dec 18th 2004, 3:28 pm

What is the URL?

Linkor (http://webcenter.pl/forum/viewforum.php?f=5)

Szy.

Cyclops

Dec 18th 2004, 6:11 pm

Anyone know what the net effect would be if established coop's linked to each other. Would it sort of become one gigantic coop ?.
Considering the effect the Digitalpoint coop is already having I imagine the effect could be huge.

Cyclops

expat

Dec 19th 2004, 3:25 am

well they can actually not link to each other, the same sites could be in each but slightly different algos would statistically always mix different.

Decission is how many (external) links does one want to have per page.
It is also possible to mix the links e.g. ad1 from A ad2 B ad3 C Ad4 from A etc.

What maybe interesting and would drive this forward would be if roughly "themed" networks would apear along the lines of top DMOZ cats.

Although I agree presently a link is a link there maybe some milage in having roughly categoriesed sites dynamically linking to each other.

M

john_loch

Dec 19th 2004, 5:50 am

Interesting to hear you say that xpat.

That's actually very close to what I'm planning over here (http://www.nichedynamics.com/chat/). People will build collections or 'Cells' of categories/themes, then apply them to a site, thereby filtering out unwanteds.

I also agree about the number of ads a WM wants on their site. As more networks emerge, there's more choice in features and distribution.

But I anticipate downsides to participating in several at once:

A. Confidence. You have to be certain you're getting what's promised.
B. Calls. How many different adservers will you have to connect to, just to render a page ?
C. How do you keep management painless ?

In general, I think the only way to move forward is to complement what's already available. Give people more choice, keep the management intuitive and familliar, and let them see how many sites are in the network, or allowing ads of certain kinds etc :cool:

Cheers,

JL

Sven

Dec 20th 2004, 12:54 pm

Linkor (http://webcenter.pl/forum/viewforum.php?f=5)

Szy.

Shame I can't read Polish :D

digitalpoint

Dec 20th 2004, 8:21 pm

{lol} Too funny... say what you want, but it *is* a rip-off. You are trying to tell me that your "yourcan.php" file for serving ads came out virtually identical to mine without "borrowing" some code? If you say so... heh

john_loch

Dec 20th 2004, 10:30 pm

To be fair.. it's a rip off. I mean even if he only did it for convenience - But hey - your code's tight.

Think of it as a compliment !

I personally don't care if my code's ripped, but hey, you did a good job :)

It was bound to happen :)

digitalpoint

Dec 20th 2004, 10:35 pm

I know... I'm not worried about it. Just don't think he should claim it's 100% his code is all. :)

anthonycea

Dec 21st 2004, 4:42 am

Nothing new, the revenue share program and the promotion of it across the net for forums was ripped off also.

That does not mean anyone else was successful with it.

Sven

Dec 22nd 2004, 12:19 pm

Nothing new, the revenue share program and the promotion of it across the net for forums was ripped off also.

That does not mean anyone else was successful with it.

Shawn, is the revenue share code available from you? Freeware or otherwise? I gotta admit, it's a neat idea.

digitalpoint

Dec 22nd 2004, 12:31 pm

No, sorry...

chachi

Dec 22nd 2004, 1:03 pm

Jayess

Jan 12th 2005, 8:13 am

In a newsgroup I frequent someone said:

You have to be carefull though of having the two network
ads on your site together.

The digital point network is closing accounts if they get found out.

I got a warning for it - Be carefull

Neil

I beleive it was in relation to copies of coop. Is that true?

yfs1

Jan 12th 2005, 8:26 am

Yes, if you have the DP Coop Network on your site, you cannot have any of the other knockoffs.

Jayess

Jan 12th 2005, 8:27 am

Yes, if you have the DP Coop Network on your site, you cannot have any of the other knockoffs.

What defines a 'knockoff'?

Is there a list of ones that are not allowed?

yfs1

Jan 12th 2005, 8:31 am

Any Coop Network.

Basically if it seems the same, then its a knockoff.

leonardlee

Jan 20th 2005, 2:00 am

let me know when you get a beta version going

leonardlee

Jan 20th 2005, 2:01 am

I dont consider booking exotic dancers adult... but i would definately be interested in a co-op type network that accepts marginal websites like mine.

john_loch

Jan 20th 2005, 5:41 am

Any Coop Network.

Basically if it seems the same, then its a knockoff.

Sorry, but thats just wrong.. I mean - *seems* the same :eek:

I've already discussed this elsewhere, but at risk of repeating myself, purely because ppl do so love to jump to conclusions, I'll point out that a link exchange network is nothing new, and it's *not* unique to DP (regardless of whether it's opt-in (coop) or paid).

It may seem the same, feel the same, look the same, yadda yadda, but that doesn't make it the same.

In fact, the *ONLY* thing that makes the DP coop unique is the way link distribution is governed - ie Shawns specific weighting system. Sorry, but thems the facts.

The coop works well, which is good, but lets be real, how many different ways are there to represent a group of text links ?? :cool:

Cheers,

JL

john_loch

Jan 20th 2005, 5:47 am

let me know when you get a beta version going

That would be me, and the place to register for the beta (if you've not already done so) is: Text Link Exchange Beta (http://www.nichedynamics.com/)

Cheers,

JL

yfs1

Jan 20th 2005, 5:47 am

My reply was in the context of the rule that you cannot run other ad networks along with the Coop Network. Not as a judgement on the quality of your own Ad Network... Lighten up a little sheesh

Sorry, but thats just wrong.. I mean - *seems* the same :eek:

I've already discussed this elsewhere, but at risk of repeating myself, purely because ppl do so love to jump to conclusions, I'll point out that a link exchange network is nothing new, and it's *not* unique to DP (regardless of whether it's opt-in (coop) or paid).

It may seem the same, feel the same, look the same, yadda yadda, but that doesn't make it the same.

In fact, the *ONLY* thing that makes the DP coop unique is the way link distribution is governed - ie Shawns specific weighting system. Sorry, but thems the facts.

The coop works well, which is good, but lets be real, how many different ways are there to represent a group of text links ?? :cool:

Cheers,

JL