New Directory off to a flying start.

[compar]

John Scott, of Internet Marketing Research, has started a new directory called Blue Find (http://www.bluefind.com/). It has only started to take submission in the last couple of weeks, but John has gotten his home page up to PR8 already.

Have a look, it might be a good place to list some of your sites.

[Foxy]

Why do we need another directory?

What does Zeal do? [or Gimpsy for that matter - same price 40 bucks]

You never see them as links - Never

Almost as bad as DMOZ - and to be honest the only reason people do DMOZ is because of Googles interest - no google - no dmoz

[GuyFromChicago]

What does Zeal do? [or Gimpsy for that matter - same price 40 bucks]
You never see them as links - Never


Do these directories use javascript or something that prevents the link from "counting", or are the links just on low PR pages?

[SENewbie]

Wow, already 17,400 inbound Google links and 519,000 on Yahoo...impressive! Needs some more categories though but I'll definately keep it in mind in the not too distant future future.

[JohnScott]

Thanks for the kind comments, guys. :)

As to the question of whether we need a new directory, please see:
http://www.bluefind.com/about.php

Our concept of a web directory is a bit different in that we welcome indiviual webpages, as opposed to just listing the index pages of sites.

Cheers

[Foxy]

Do these directories use javascript or something that prevents the link from "counting", or are the links just on low PR pages?

Link that was accepted [wow what a deal!!!] was a PR5

[Owlcroft]

One brief comment: the size of the fee should not be a secret.

It is not on the front page, which is OK. But clicking on "Submit URL" brings a page that mentions the fee, but does not there state what it is. Nor is there even any immediately obvious way to proceed with a submission.

As it points out somewhere well into the forums there:

"I had to read the instructions found at: &c. through twice before it came to me to make a submission, you need to: (i) select the appropriate category; (ii) go to the category and use the add url button there to make your submission."

That is not what I would call a blindingly self-evident procedure.

I also did not see an answer to a posted forum question about fees, or their lack, for non-profits. I am just doing a site for a nonprofit local volunteer group (IRS-certified nonprofit corp), and will shortly be trying to get them listed here and there. Would they have to pay to get on BlueFind?

[SENewbie]

I agree, I was suprised to see the $40 fee to add my site after the second or third page. But Joeant is the same way.

If you do have a site though, now would be the time to add it. I submitted another site I was working on and it was added within a few hours on a PR6 page (it hasn't shown up as PR6 yet, but its 2 levels down from the homepage PR8)...not bad.

The only thing was that I hadn't received any notification that it had been added, I checked it myself.

[GuyFromChicago]

John Scott, of Internet Marketing Research, has started a new directory called Blue Find (http://www.bluefind.com/). It has only started to take submission in the last couple of weeks, but John has gotten his home page up to PR8 already.

Have a look, it might be a good place to list some of your sites.

A high PR(8), not too crowded yet, and a nice design. Worth $40 in my book.

I just submitted my new sports forum site. Should show as the second listing one page off the index when it's listed. There's only one other site listed there at this time.

Thanks for the link compar - it was a good find.

[hulkster]

Thanks for the kind comments, guys. :)

As to the question of whether we need a new directory, please see:
http://www.bluefind.com/about.php

Our concept of a web directory is a bit different in that we welcome indiviual webpages, as opposed to just listing the index pages of sites.

Cheers

Since JS welcomed me in his forums, the Hulkster will welcome him to these forums. For those that don't know, John has yet-another-SEO-forum at http://www.internet-marketing-research.net/ that looks pretty decent - another place to spend your hours! ;-)

His www.bluefind.com stuff is pretty interesting and IS approaching from a different angle - will be interesting to keep an eye on it.

Hulk just think greenfind woulda been better than bluefind!

alek

[JohnScott]

I agree, I was suprised to see the $40 fee to add my site after the second or third page. But Joeant is the same way.

I'm thinking we will have to change up a few things. The "Add URL" page on the home page is a bit confusing.

Before we put that up, people would most likely first go to the category that most suits them, say "Popular Search Words" (http://www.bluefind.com/dir/7879.php) and from there click on "Add URL" (http://www.bluefind.com/add/7879.php) and they would see the submission fee right off.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

If you do have a site though, now would be the time to add it. I submitted another site I was working on and it was added within a few hours on a PR6 page (it hasn't shown up as PR6 yet, but its 2 levels down from the homepage PR8)...not bad.

The first month up, we were at PR8, and we've added a couple hundred thousand PR8 and PR7 backlinks since, so I'm semi-hopeful that we get a PR9, or at least a lot more PR8 pages within the directory.

We are not in the business of PageRank, but it does open doors that would not otherwise be open. Ultimately, it has no bearing on how good a directory BlueFind becomes. That all depends on how productive/competent our editors are.

Cheers.

[digitalpoint]

It's a great directory in my opinion. $40 for a permanent link no a PR8 site is not a bad investment I don't think.

- Shawn

[GuyFromChicago]

A high PR(8), not too crowded yet, and a nice design. Worth $40 in my book.

I just submitted my new sports forum site. Should show as the second listing one page off the index when it's listed. There's only one other site listed there at this time.

Thanks for the link compar - it was a good find.

Ok, 3 hours or so later I'm listed. Very quick I must say.

Johm, Foxyweb mentioned in another post that most links in directories never show as backlinks. While there is value in being included in a directory (especially if it's high traffic/popular) a lot of the value in today's market is the link itself. Does your directory do anything that would prevent links being shown as backlinks? This will be a question/concern that lot of people will have…at least in my opinion.

Oh, and one other thing - I noticed my listing appeared above the listing that was already there. Will your directory be "top down", ie the newest inclusion gets top billing? Seems to me like it should be the other way around (new entries to the bottom of the list) or maybe just sorted alphabetically.

[digitalpoint]

Directories count as back links... look at DMOZ for example.

- Shawn

[GuyFromChicago]

Directories count as back links... look at DMOZ for example.

- Shawn


It's been my experience that they usually do - I was really commenting on Foxy's comment about the fact that they dont. Figured if anyone was "sitting on the fence" for this reason, John could confirm there's no issue with backlinks from his forum and put that issue to bed.

[JohnScott]

Whether or not the listing shows as a backlink on Google depends on a couple things. For example, does the page have PR? We are working hard to not just get good PR distributed to the home page, but also to the interior pages of the larger categories.



As for my forum, it does show in backliks of some posters, but I do see movement on Google's part to either hide those links from forums or to discount them entirely. Forum spamming is this year's version of guestbook spamming, and Google did a very good job or discounting guestbook links.

And, don't forget, web directories can drive good traffic. About.com drives a lot of traffic in certain categories, and our goal is to become more used than About.com

Cheers.

[hulkster]

As for my forum, it does show in backliks of some posters, but I do see movement on Google's part to either hide those links from forums or to discount them entirely. Forum spamming is this year's version of guestbook spamming, and Google did a very good job or discounting guestbook links.



I totally agree with this statement. As I've said earlier, if I worked at Google and saw SEO Forums ranking #1 for "Atlanta Realtor" and #3 for "webers BBQs", I'd say we really need to tweek our algorithms since I question the relevancy of both of those results.

alek

[GuyFromChicago]

I totally agree with this statement. As I've said earlier, if I worked at Google and saw SEO Forums ranking #1 for "Atlanta Realtor" and #3 for "webers BBQs", I'd say we really need to tweek our algorithms since I question the relevancy of both of those results.

alek

I think if I worked at Google I would be looking at all the ads on the right side of the page that say "Atlanta Realtor" :)

The big difference between the address book spam and forums is that forums, for the most, provide some valuable and informative content.

[john_loch]

The big difference between the address book spam and forums is that forums, for the most, provide some valuable and informative content.

I think that by virtue of the forum community/feedback (reads: return visitors) they also tend to be more closely moderated.

[hulkster]

I think if I worked at Google I would be looking at all the ads on the right side of the page that say "Atlanta Realtor" :)

The big difference between the address book spam and forums is that forums, for the most, provide some valuable and informative content.

While google makes money "directly" from those ads on the right side, I think their reputation is influenced by the relevancy of the unsponsored ads.

I completely agree that forums CAN be a very useful source of information, but some sort of "theming" should be applied (very easy to say, very hard to do). Again, I'd suggest that if you click on the top-two entries in Google for Atlanta Realtor there is very little relevant information on those pages themselves. The seochat one has a link TO a useful page, and the digitalpoint one appears to be a random profile (?)

I.e. if I was trying to grab a top-10 spot for a non-SEO related keyword phrase in Google, do you think they would agree a way to do that is by creating a screen name in an SEO forum?!? ;-)

alek

[GuyFromChicago]

While google makes money "directly" from those ads on the right side, I think their reputation is influenced by the relevancy of the unsponsored ads.

I completely agree that forums CAN be a very useful source of information, but some sort of "theming" should be applied (very easy to say, very hard to do). Again, I'd suggest that if you click on the top-two entries in Google for Atlanta Realtor there is very little relevant information on those pages themselves. The seochat one has a link TO a useful page, and the digitalpoint one appears to be a random profile (?)

I.e. if I was trying to grab a top-10 spot for a non-SEO related keyword phrase in Google, do you think they would agree a way to do that is by creating a screen name in an SEO forum?!? ;-)

alek

Theming would be nice – I agree. I know it’s easier said than done. I think G will implement it at some point though…it makes sense.

My opinion is that for the most part, Google’s serps are very relevant. When you’re dealing with millions (billions?) of potential search phrases and key words you’re bound to have a few (Atlanta Realtor for example) that are not quite so relevant. It’s statistical to me – a certain % will always be off. If G can keep that % low the majority of internet users will never know.

I think if they start jumping every time they notice a little anomaly that’s when the serps would start getting wacky.

[mrdch]

Hi,

You never see them as links - Never

Well, I guess that depends how hard you look. ;) It took me no more than 12 minutes (I checked!) to compile the following list of sites and the backlinks they have from Gimpsy. I cannot guarantee that the list will be valid, say, a month from now, as Google changes all the time, but I expect the majority of back links to continue to show up.

Also note that due to the structure of Gimpsy, a site may get more than one link, which can be seen in some of the sites listed below. BTW, the Gimpsy backlink is not always in the first 10, but if you set Google to show you 100 sites at a time, you will always find it straight away. Here goes:

lifetimetv.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elifetimetv%2Ecom%2Fshows%2Fweddings%2F)
paragraphpunch.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eparagraphpunch%2Ecom%2F)
hawaiiindependent.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehawaiiindependent%2Ecom%2F)
visionsimulations.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evisionsimulations%2Ecom%2F)
citv.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecitv%2Ecom%2F)
housesite.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehousessite%2Ecom%2F)
onecer.net (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eonecer%2Enet%2F)
animalhome.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esafehavenforcats%2Eorg%2F)
adoptadolphin.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eadoptadolphin%2Ecom%2F)
poochheaven.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epoochheaven%2Ecom%2F)
obitnow.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eobitnow%2Ecom%2F)

Having shown all that, we believe that Gimpsy provides much more than just a backlink. It provides highly targeted traffic too. However, if you are just interested in PR promotion - that should convince you of the value Gimpsy provides.

Cheers!

MC

[compar]

I have to agree with that. It pisses me right off, but my Gimpsy links for some pages shows up on Yahoo while the page itself is nowhere in site.

Frankly I've never noticed this in Google, but that is probably because Google tends to rank my sites higher than Yahoo.

Suffice it to say that I think submission to Gimpsy is well worth while.

Damn, I should be an affiliate.

[mrdch]

Hi Bob,

Suffice it to say that I think submission to Gimpsy is well worth while

Thanks for the thumbs up!

I am quite positive that, like your site, there are thousands more. Even with a PR of 6 on the Home Page we can show outstanding results, and we believe that PR 7 is just around the corner (check Gimpsy's backlinks - all 'organic').

MC

[Foxy]

Hi Bob,



Thanks for the thumbs up!

I am quite positive that, like your site, there are thousands more. Even with a PR of 6 on the Home Page we can show outstanding results, and we believe that PR 7 is just around the corner (check Gimpsy's backlinks - all 'organic').

MC

Well argued - I do take back my thow away comment about "Gimpsy".

I wish you well. :)

[mopacfan]

And, don't forget, web directories can drive good traffic. About.com drives a lot of traffic in certain categories, and our goal is to become more used than About.com

About.com sucks. Now that they have the same layout as everyone else, the site just sucks eggs. It's just another msn portal lookalike.

[sarahk]

Hey Hulk - thought the blue meant either IBM or blue as in movies. So pleased to find it was neither.

Bit of a shame there's no free submission. As a consumer I won't use a tool which only has paid ads, so as a site owner, why would I submit to one.

I've submitted to skaffe, searchmonster and joeant for free by putting in a bit of time as an editor, and generally improving the directory.

Sarah

[hulkster]

Hey Hulk - thought the blue meant either IBM or blue as in movies. So pleased to find it was neither.

Bit of a shame there's no free submission. As a consumer I won't use a tool which only has paid ads, so as a site owner, why would I submit to one.

Sarah

Hulk is family man with two little Hulk's
So yea, Hulk doesn't frequent in "blue movies"
Puny Human John Scott has interesting concept going.
Hulk be curious to see if it will break away from the pack of directories.

Hulk agree too bad not free submission.
Hulk like to submit his www.komar.org personal page.
But Puny Human John Scott has other ideas for www.bluefind.com
So Hulk understand why paid submission.
JS is pretty smart Puny Human.
Hulk say keep an eye on what he is up to.

[sarahk]

Hulk

Don't know how much these things cost up in the land of the free but down here it'd cost about a thousand bucks to do this: http://www.komar.org/xmas/

Looks great though, just a culture shock for me.

s

[hulkster]

Hulk

Don't know how much these things cost up in the land of the free but down here it'd cost about a thousand bucks to do this: http://www.komar.org/xmas/

Looks great though, just a culture shock for me.

s

Actually, you aren't far off on the cost of the lights themselves, even though I was buying 'em after the Holidays when they go on deep discounts. There are some other costs, but those are mostly one-time.

The re-occurring costs of electricity is not as much as you would think, although I do like to tell people how the electric meter spins like a madman. The lights are on for a month and only during the evening hours. Electricity here is about 8 cents/KiloWatt-Hour, and according to my Christmas Lights FAQ (http://www.komar.org/xmas/faq/) I used about 2 MegaWatts of power in 2002 when I has 20,000+ lights ... so total cost was $160 - that's a big surprise to most folks.

I live in a neighborhood with a lotta families and the kids LOVE it, so it's worth it to me ... although then everyone asks me what I'm going to do next year to top it! ;-)

BTW, in case you didn't see it, my avatar came from my Halloween Decorations and Lights (http://www.komar.org/halloween/) - the Big Green Guy was quite the hit for the little trick-or-treaters!

Yea, I don't imagine you have much snow on December 25th way down South in your neck of the woods, but I'd love to see some links from New Zealand to my page! ;-)


OK - enough off-topic stuff - back to SEO discussions!
alek

[hulkster]

Yea, I don't imagine you have much snow on December 25th way down South in your neck of the woods, but I'd love to see some links from New Zealand to my page! ;-)

HEY - looks like you got dinosaurs down there near your volcanoes (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1113950.htm) - that story is a crackup ...

alek