Transparency of coders and Designers

[The Pheonix]

I've been reading quite a few threads from people who've been victim to free mods etc for thier directory scripts and also of getting ripped off by template designers. Am I wrong in thinking that any coder/designer worth thier salt and honest would not have an ounce of a problem giving thier correct home contact details when offering work?

I say this because most people seem to favour hiding themsleves behind proxies these days. What's your views on this having in mind some mods can cost quite a bit and if gone wrong can cause a lot of lost revenue if not fixed quickly.

[mikey1090]

I know everyones names who I have done programming/design jobs with.

I dont think knowing the real name helps that much. Sergey Aspidov has made several others unhappy around here, although he did an amazing job on my design.

[britishguy]

Credibility and transparency improves any marketplace, regardless whether its in the High Street, Office or Internet

[The Pheonix]

[QUOTE]I know everyones names who I have done programming/design jobs with.Do you really know?

I dont think knowing the real name helps that much. Sergey Aspidov has made several others unhappy around here, although he did an amazing job on my design.How can you say that? What if something goes belly up with any coding you might have done, are you trying to say that the person who might have charged you XY or Z should not be accountable? If you don't know who they are how you gonna know who to take action against?

[pipes]

I think its very important indeed to have lots of real information at least available on request if your going to be involved in working with a coder or a designer.

If its just a ten quid side job then its not so important but if its a big job then i know i would feel more comfortable if i know i can reach that person by phone if need be.

Recently ive been asking here regarding templates, im slowly gathering information for future jobs that i will need done.

I personally feel that being prepared to be open is still hugely misunderstood and underestimated, but it shouldn't be underestimated either that if your really determined you can, with some effort track down just about anyone.

[werewe12]

For me it depends on how much money is on the table. If the coder/designer is credible in the forums, I will give some trust. If they are willing to ruin their reputation for a few dollars so be it. If the project requires a lot of funding, I will probably go with someone I have previously done business with and trust. Hopefully by doing it this way I am reducing the risk of being ripped off. If I do happen to get ripped off I will file a dispute with Paypal and at worst get half my money back.

[mikey1090]

Do you really know?

I have done deals with 2 designers and 1 programmer, i know all their names and email addresses.


How can you say that? What if something goes belly up with any coding you might have done, are you trying to say that the person who might have charged you XY or Z should not be accountable? If you don't know who they are how you gonna know who to take action against?

I see your point, but I can't quite imagine a case involiving a directory mod going to court.

[The Pheonix]

For me it depends on how much money is on the table. If the coder/designer is credible in the forums, I will give some trust. If they are willing to ruin their reputation for a few dollars so be it. If the project requires a lot of funding, I will probably go with someone I have previously done business with and trust. Hopefully by doing it this way I am reducing the risk of being ripped off. If I do happen to get ripped off I will file a dispute with Paypal and at worst get half my money back.you can't get your money back off paypal for certain types of goods which I do believe includes what I'm posting about, this is one reason I decided to ask.

[mikey1090]

you can't get your money back off paypal for certain types of goods which I do believe includes what I'm posting about, this is one reason I decided to ask.

yeah paypal doesnt have cover for digital goods. However, if you pay with your Credit or debit card as the paypal source of funds, you can ring your CC/DC company and chargeback.

[The Pheonix]

yeah paypal doesnt have cover for digital goods. However, if you pay with your Credit or debit card as the paypal source of funds, you can ring your CC/DC company and chargeback.Crikey, what bank do you use? do you even dare give you CC details to anyone you don't really know? Whoah, I have to out of duty say NEVER do that! :eek:

Giving your credit card details to anyone you don't have a fixed address and details on is like giving people a licence to print money. Firstly because most don't use secure servers and secondly you can't claim back from people that use fake id's. A bank will tell you that its YOUR duty to show a level of diligence when dealing with online transactions, if your stupid enough to give your details to an untraceable person you will never get your bank or CC to give you a chargeback. If you know of one that does let me know of it as I can't see it myself.

[pipes]

You can of course pay with your credit card through payapal though, and credit card companies can be suprisingly helpful when needed, even though they rob us blind with interest rates. ;)

[mikey1090]

Crikey, what bank do you use? do you even dare give you CC details to anyone you don't really know? Whoah, I have to out of duty say NEVER do that! :eek:

Giving your credit card details to anyone you don't have a fixed address and details on is like giving people a licence to print money. Firstly because most don't use secure servers and secondly you can't claim back from people that use fake id's. A bank will tell you that its YOUR duty to show a level of diligence when dealing with online transactions, if your stupid enough to give your details to an untraceable person you will never get your bank or CC to give you a chargeback. If you know of one that does let me know of it as I can't see it myself.

You misunderstood my post.

You can of course pay with your credit card through payapal though, and credit card companies can be suprisingly helpful when needed, even though they rob us blind with interest rates. ;)

Pipes understood me:)

When you pay with paypal there are several options. Paypal balance, credit/debit card and bank transfer. Using CC/DC is what scanmmers do, thats how they chargeback and get stuff for free.

[The Pheonix]

You can of course pay with your credit card through payapal though, and credit card companies can be suprisingly helpful when needed, even though they rob us blind with interest rates. ;)lmao; which one's pipes, I use the good old BOE, and they are a bitch to honour chargebacks.

@Mikey, make your points more clear and I'll understand them easier. ;)

[mikey1090]

@Mikey, make your points more clear and I'll understand them easier.

I thought it was crystal ;)

However, if you pay with your Credit or debit card as the paypal source of funds

[pipes]

lmao; which one's pipes, I use the good old BOE, and they are a bitch to honour chargebacks.



HSBC and Capital One, my balances aren't even from my own enjoyment, over generosity with a past girlfriend. :o

[werewe12]

you can't get your money back off paypal for certain types of goods which I do believe includes what I'm posting about, this is one reason I decided to ask.

Few years back I got ripped off by a freelancer because I made the stupid mistake to send him full payment before any work was done. I made a dispute with Paypal. I was sure to include any details I could find. I copy/pasted the conversations I had with this freelancer. At the end of my statement I included that "I could provide more proof upon request". They ended up refunding me back half the funds. I wasn’t fully satisfied, but better than nothing. Valuable lesson learned on my expense.

Also, I heard it's easier to dispute something with Paypal if you label the transaction as "goods" instead of "services". Paypal will ask the seller for the tracking number incase of dispute.

[SilkySmooth]

victim to free mods

Victim I think is entirely the wrong word when dealing with free mods.

You have a choice to go free or to hire / pay for a mod. If you hire someone then it is your responsibility to ensure you ask for the information if you desire it, but most programmers will gladly provide such information without being asked. In the case that they refuse your request then you shouldn't be hiring them in the first place.

[The Pheonix]

Victim I think is entirely the wrong word when dealing with free mods.

You have a choice to go free or to hire / pay for a mod. If you hire someone then it is your responsibility to ensure you ask for the information if you desire it, but most programmers will gladly provide such information without being asked. In the case that they refuse your request then you shouldn't be hiring them in the first place.The word was totally appropriate in the context it was used SS. I was referring to the victim of the consequences of using a free mod not necessarily a 'victim of a free mod', there's a big difference. Free mods are just that, free, and unless support is offered even with free then you run a risk of using something without fallback.

I therefore agree with you, that to eliminate risks you either invest in a good programmer with a proven track record and one who is transparent with thier business, people who choose to use free anything are usually the first to gripe about things if and when they go wrong. The problem though is that most programmers simply aren't transparent, and there's no such thing as trust when it comes to people who hide behind names and proxies, its often then just as much a gamble as using free software. A good programmer will never be afraid to give out his details, why should they be, they have a reputation to uphold and by being totally open they increase their credability thus business and the world's a happy place.

The moral of the story though in a nutshell is if you plan to use free software then do so at your peril.

[SilkySmooth]

The word was totally appropriate in the context it was used SS. I was referring to the victim of the consequences of using a free mod not necessarily a 'victim of a free mod', there's a big difference.

Well I am not going to argue with you, I was just stating my opinion that I don't beleive it was used in the correct context.

[WatchOut]

Many love finding designers on webmaster forums, though I would rather save some bucks and hire a real webdesign company to do the work; much more easier to communicate and to get a job done that suits your needs.

Regards,
Meti

[The Pheonix]

Well I am not going to argue with you, I was just stating my opinion that I don't beleive it was used in the correct context.That's not a problem SS, its down to interpretation, I respect your opinion as much as any others. We haven't got to agree all the time, the world would stop spinning if that happened. :eek: We can though agree to disagree without arguing which I pretty much think we both agree on. :)

[jg123]

Many love finding designers on webmaster forums, though I would rather save some bucks and hire a real webdesign company to do the work; much more easier to communicate and to get a job done that suits your needs.

Regards,
Meti

It is a case of 'risk vs. reward', the risk is higher with a solo contractor but you can also save a bundle if you have the time and experstise to manage the project successfully. Personally I have had a lot of success using designers and coders from the forums but I admit there have been some bumps in the road. I usually go with my 'gut' if I feel there may be problems I just don't do business with them. The whole fiasco with Serge was unexpected. I never had any business dealings with him myself because frankly I was not a big fan of his style and I always felt his prices were a tad high. I am guessing something happened in his personal life that caused his business/reputation collapse.

[Turbo-Productions]

Being a designer myself, I feel that if you can't stand behind your work, then the client should not be paying for your services. A lot of amateur designers out there. just remember you get what you pay for.

[templates]

yeah paypal doesnt have cover for digital goods. However, if you pay with your Credit or debit card as the paypal source of funds, you can ring your CC/DC company and chargeback.

yea,thats what im in the process of doing because of serg ripping me off,but im still out the $250 for a couple of months now and not guranteed to get it back from my CC company..that whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth with dealing with ppl here on the forum

[jhnrang]

I primarily love to work with people that I have prior acquintence with. So far I have worked with iGauresh & LeopardArt - who have delivred much more than I wanted:) Besides WatchOut also helps me out from time to time with site management.

My view is that, even if I know the real address of th person --what do I do if he/she cheats on me for few hundred bucks? Am I going to US and file a lawsuit or to Sweden and ask its police that there is a Cyber criminal I was looking for?

No way- I won't take the trouble.

IMHO- it helps nothing. If he/she cheats on me, I can always share it with all of you and other communities that I am involved in.

WWW too vast a pnomenon- it is a place of opportunity for both honest and dishonest people. All can do their own jobs and fortunately the dishonest people are too out-numbered by honest people.
So everything cool as per as I am concerned.:cool:

[Clive]

I know everyones names who I have done programming/design jobs with.

I dont think knowing the real name helps that much. Sergey Aspidov has made several others unhappy around here, although he did an amazing job on my design.

I did a few coding jobs for Serg Aspidov in the past and he seemed to be a reasonable payer. Can anyone confirm that he is ok now? He hasn't logged in since Sep 13th 2007...

[werewe12]

I did a few coding jobs for Serg Aspidov in the past and he seemed to be a reasonable payer. Can anyone confirm that he is ok now? He hasn't logged in since Sep 13th 2007...

No one has heard from him.

[mikey1090]

I did a few coding jobs for Serg Aspidov in the past and he seemed to be a reasonable payer. Can anyone confirm that he is ok now? He hasn't logged in since Sep 13th 2007...

I think he must have serious problems. A person doesnt flip like that for no reason.

I also forgot to mention my dealings with clive he has coded many wordpress and phpLB themes at an excellent standard:)

[Clive]

I think he must have serious problems. A person doesnt flip like that for no reason.

I also forgot to mention my dealings with clive he has coded many wordpress and phpLB themes at an excellent standard:)

Thanks, Mikey. I do appreciate the kind comments about my work, means a lot to me when customer is happy.

[templates]

Thanks, Mikey. I do appreciate the kind comments about my work, means a lot to me when customer is happy.
do you do phplb and phpld templates?i may need some done..thanks

[The Pheonix]

My view is that, even if I know the real address of th person --what do I do if he/she cheats on me for few hundred bucks? Am I going to US and file a lawsuit or to Sweden and ask its police that there is a Cyber criminal I was looking for?

No way- I won't take the trouble.

IMHO- it helps nothing. If he/she cheats on me, I can always share it with all of you and other communities that I am involved in.Do a bit of homework, you can deal with anyone you want anywhere on the planet from the comfort of your own home thanks to this thing we call the internet, you know the thing I'm using to talk to you right now. :eek: 99% of Countries have treaties in place where you can take action against a person from another Country even if they are not in the same domicile as you.

That's why transparancy is important, and my own personal opinion is never deal with anyone who's afraid to give their details as they clearly have something to hide, if not from you from someone or something else.

[Clive]

do you do phplb and phpld templates?i may need some done..thanks

Yes, I do PHPLD coding, too.

[workshop]

I did a few coding jobs for Serg Aspidov in the past and he seemed to be a reasonable payer. Can anyone confirm that he is ok now? He hasn't logged in since Sep 13th 2007...What struck me about this incident was the fact that everyone appeared to be terrified of calling another member to account. Why?

Service providers use these forums to market their services and this is where reps should be made and where members should be held to account. Given the nature of our respective businesses I don't think Transparency and Accountability comes easily to us.

[mikey1090]

What struck me about this incident was the fact that everyone appeared to be terrified of calling another member to account. Why?

Service providers use these forums to market their services and this is where reps should be made and where members should be held to account. Given the nature of our respective businesses I don't think Transparency and Accountability comes easily to us.

i think people care about their green blobs too much and didnt want to call out a reputed member incase the red devils came chasing....

[workshop]

That's where it all goes wrong. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes. We all do it. That's how we learn but the difference between one person and another is how they handle situations.

[Clive]

Service providers use these forums to market their services and this is where reps should be made and where members should be held to account. Given the nature of our respective businesses I don't think Transparency and Accountability comes easily to us.

Do not be surprised to find out that some members only play the role of 3rd parties and negotiators while pretending to be coders or designers, and the actual services are provided by others without their knowledge of who the real customer is.

I found myself in this position (of being mislead) quite a few times on DP. That's why we are facing a potential problem when it comes to transparency and accountability as a result.

[workshop]

That's what I was saying and that's the reputation DP has. On the other-hand its open and if you can stomach the trolls you can pretty much say what you like. Could we not keep the open and free and add some value in the way of integrity, transparency and most important of all accountability.

[The Pheonix]

Do not be surprised to find out that some members only play the role of 3rd parties and negotiators while pretending to be coders or designers, and the actual services are provided by others without their knowledge of who the real customer is.I think this is exactly the problem, I hover around the coding forums and freelance sites quite a lot, and know more than I let on about the simularities of posters here and coding requests and cries for help on them, you might just be right but still, even these agents should be accountable don't you think?

I found myself in this position (of being mislead) quite a few times on DP. That's why we are facing a potential problem when it comes to transparency and accountability as a result.Sorry to hear this Clive, I did notice that some of the transparency of some people here seems to be clouded, glad I'm not freelance.