ASP dead?

[teammatt3]

Is it really worthwhile to learn ASP when it is used so little? I have some time on my hands so I wondering if it would benefit me to learn it.

Any comments?

[TommyD]

Like with any skill, it depends on what your intentions are.

Example, you want to contract your sevices direct to customers creating dynamic websites, the M$ keyword can sell to untrained.

If you want to create websites for your own use, I would think you focus on low TCO (Total Cost of Ownership), and PHP/MySQL can give you that better than ASP.

So, what are your intentions?

tom

[teammatt3]

I'm just wondering if, instead of learning ASP I should learn C/C++ or one of the others. No real purpose yet other than expanding my knowledge.

[Connect]

No problem with learning ASP now. I also started with ASP, once you have some basics, learning other languages such as PHP would be much simpler.

[SEO Jeff]

Why learn Classic stuff? Try ASP.NET 2.0. I use it everyday and I love the new 80% code reduction it has gave me.

I mostly use the new Data Controls and Membership API. Really nice MS has done the hard stuff for us.

[programmer]

Why learn Classic stuff? Try ASP.NET 2.0. I use it everyday and I love the new 80% code reduction it has gave me.

I mostly use the new Data Controls and Membership API. Really nice MS has done the hard stuff for us.
that's right classic ASP is almost dead. Try to learn the latest one

[SEO Jeff]

I find it very funny people still use Classic ASP. Besides budget factors I think people would love the .NET Platform vs. some odd Vbscript'ed ASP site

With .NET 2.0 being the standard for Windows Vista development now's the time to jump on board using .NET 2.0 using the Express versions of Visual Studio then when your ready to have a full blowen IDE buy the professional versions or get an MSDN Account.

[relixx]

while ASP classic is busy dying a slow death, in some countries it's still used for some reason. Probably because it's so easy to install and operate.

Despite it's slow commerical death, I still use classic ASP for the tools I develop for personal use.

[king_cobra]

ASP is not at all dead. Its still the most used scripting language. the problem is its used by huge portals and dot com companies and not by small scale webmasters. considering the fact about window's market share of the server market, php has a long way to go. linux is taking over slowly but cannot say what MS will come up with. they have this reputation of striking when its most vital. so learn ASP if you are looking to work with those BIG websites, or learn php so as to create urself websites.

[SEO Jeff]

Well I'll admit Classic ASP is not totaly dead. Even MS uses some Classic ASP still but however .NET is the way to go for developing new stuff. I hate PHP for the sake of it being so buggy on Windows. I do not develop for Linux users as Microsoft's marketshare is sky high for both Desktop users vs. Linux. I hope the Mono project kicks off because I am lately interested in cross-platform apps.

[mrspeed]

If you're going to invest any time to learn I would lean towards ASP.net and C#. You can leverage those skills to write desktop apps as well.

[SEO Jeff]

Very correct mrspeed,

I myself come from a Visual Basic 6 background so I have sticked with VB.NET although I am learning/studying C#. You may ask me why when there pretty much the same thing? Well because a lot of people just don't know that VB.NET is pretty much up to par as far as power goes. Lots I mean lots of people think C# is better.

Anyways VB.NET and C# is the best way to go for ASP.NET or maybe even the new XAML platform hehe.

[mrspeed]

They both compile to MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) so in theory they should be the same performance wise.

C# reminds me a little bit of PHP. They comment the same way and statements end with a ;
I don't have to think as much about how to comment lines when switching languages.
(I suppose the similarity ends there)


When I do classic ASP I can't tell you how mant times I type in a ;

[marcos]

The future is php

[spondishy]

They both compile to MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) so in theory they should be the same performance wise.

C# reminds me a little bit of PHP. They comment the same way and statements end with a ;
I don't have to think as much about how to comment lines when switching languages.
(I suppose the similarity ends there)


When I do classic ASP I can't tell you how mant times I type in a ;

I'd replace php with Java... Exactly right on the MSIL front. I program in c# because I also do Java (easier to remember the ; etc).

In the end go with what you're comfortable with.

[Carlito]

If you're also interested in C/C++ I'd go with C# over VB.NET simply because the concepts and syntax in C# are more closely related to C/C++ than the quirky VB.NET is. So the overlap will help quite a bit if you later want to learn C++.

[relixx]

When I do classic ASP I can't tell you how mant times I type in a ;

Lol, I have a similar problem, but reversed. My first languages was VB 6 and thus ASP. As I'm teaching myself PHP now, I keep forgetting to put in a ;

[mopacfan]

It may not be as popular, but it's anything but dead. I'm a web developer and never had any desire to be a "programmer". With a background in VB, ASP made the most sense and not everything has to be cutting edge. For many applications, ASP 3.0 is more than enough to get the job done. I don't have any desire to learn .net and I don't have any reason to do so.

[relixx]

It may not be as popular, but it's anything but dead. I'm a web developer and never had any desire to be a "programmer". With a background in VB, ASP made the most sense and not everything has to be cutting edge. For many applications, ASP 3.0 is more than enough to get the job done. I don't have any desire to learn .net and I don't have any reason to do so.

That's true. However, MS is now pushing for .net all the way, so I feel ASP will fade into the background, esp with new web developers/programmers. It will soon be dead as a main-stream thing, but it'll always have it's die-hard suporters :)

[lbordea]

it really how you see it: in my firm we still use asp for our programs but if we have to make new programs then we do it in asp.net.

[xfairguy]

I have asp knowledge I wish I can exchange it for PHP.
Learn PHP.

[lbordea]

why would you say that?!?! xfairguy?
everything has its meaning. do you really think that asp doesn't help you at all? in my case, it does.
You should learn PHP from now on, but i am sure that asp may be of a great help even in studdying PHP.

[xfairguy]

I think that it is better to specialize in just one.
If I am starting now I would go with PHP.
PHP has a larger market now,more good open source software is written in PHP, cheaper hosting, free database.

[relixx]

I think that it is better to specialize in just one.
If I am starting now I would go with PHP.
PHP has a larger market now,more good open source software is written in PHP, cheaper hosting, free database.

The free database point is moot, you can get mySQL for windows platforms :)

[aworldh]

I think ASP is still a good choice as many websites use asp even now,
but i would recommend you to go for Asp.net. According to microsoft .Net will drive the next-generation of Internet. You can make big bucks if you can master this technology. Many asp sites are translating
into asp.net.

[relixx]

According to microsoft .Net will drive the next-generation of Internet.

And according to Microsoft, no one would ned mroe than 640k of RAM :p

[Nokia999]

Learning ASP will help you towards ASP.net,vb6 and vb.net.
While php is incest of old age C.

[relixx]

Learning ASP will help you towards ASP.net,vb6 and vb.net.
While php is incest of old age C.

More like the result of an orgy involving all of the older languages :p

[aworldh]

And according to Microsoft, no one would ned mroe than 640k of RAM :p
Lol , thats funny.

[BurgerKing]

Jump straight into ASP.Net, and 2.0 rather than 1.1

I work as a contract programmer, and the only ASP work I get is converting sites to ASP.Net.

[jimrthy]

I'm just wondering if, instead of learning ASP I should learn C/C++ or one of the others. No real purpose yet other than expanding my knowledge.
Learn them both.

As far as I can see, right now's an amazing time (as far as money goes) to have asp in your tool belt. From one perspective, it's annoying and boring. OTOH...there are companies boat loads of money for it.

M$, as far as I can tell, has outdone themselves with asp.net 2.0. This is the first time in about 10 years that I've actually been excited by something they've done.

[jimrthy]

Or, at least, try to find a job that lets you use the new one. There's not much more to learn than drag & drop.

As much as I hate microsoft and their products...this may be the best thing they've released since...oh, windows 3.1.

Amazingly, it feels good to be this wrong about something.

[CyberCoder]

It's not totally dead, but, you would probably be better off with PHP.

I have a site ( CyberCoded.com) designed around ASP with software and scripts for developers. It still gets a lot of traffic and pays for itself, but, I get several requests every week for the programs to be rewritten in PHP/MySQL. Unfortunately, at this stage of the game it is beyond my schedule to start over.

Although I program in other MS Visual Languages, ASP.net never got my attention, and if/when I decide to start again I will be looking towards PHP.

And this is really not much different than what has happened to programmers since PC's were available. First we started with Basic, then GW Basic, Pascal, C, C++, Visual Basic, etc... etc... etc....

I have had to learn at least part of a new language on average every 2 -3 years. And that gets old after awhile.

[blinxdk]

I do not develop for Linux users as Microsoft's marketshare is sky high for both Desktop users vs. Linux. I hope the Mono project kicks off because I am lately interested in cross-platform apps.

PHP is server side, so it doesn't really concern your users at all what you develop in.

I agree about Mono though, it's an interresting project.

[jimrthy]

Mono is a brain-dead idea. MS will keep changing their language definitions. Mono will have to change horses in mid-stream to try to keep up.

It's one of the lamest ideas I've ever heard. Ranks almost up there with WINE. (We're going to try to do everything you claim you do. As soon as you publish the details about what you're doing, we're going to try to emulate that.)

No offense to the MONO (or WINE) developers out there. It just strikes me as a complete waste of time.

Developers want to go cross-platform? wx. Or *really* twist your brains around, learn lisp, and switch to something like clim.

But mono's a loser's game. (Hey, we can catch up with them if we just try harder...)

[jimrthy]

c# (and, now, vb.net) is pretty much MS' version of java. MS has been trying to sweep C underneath the rug for at least 10 years now. Have they finally succeeded?

[jimrthy]

At least that's an easy error to catch

[jimrthy]

Completely and totally depends.

PHP is great for "hack it out quick" sites.

MS turned up the volume with asp.net 2. They kind of said "screw the script kiddies. We don't care." Now it's all about hard-core enterprise applications.

Although they're still using tables for their site layout. Grr.

[jimrthy]

It <classic ASP> will soon be dead as a main-stream thing, but it'll always have it's die-hard suporters :)

:D
Somehow, I have a hard time envisioning long-term hard-core legacy ASP supporters. :rolleyes: Sort of ranks up there with long-term, hard-core COBOL supporters. :) But, hey, to each his own.

[jimrthy]

LOL. I think that was according to Bill Gates.

Fishing moron. (Billy, not you)

[vectorgraphx]

Somehow, I have a hard time envisioning long-term hard-core legacy ASP supporters.


couldn't agree with you more. however, if by "long-term" you mean the next couple of years - i would have to disagree on that. Realistally, in the technology market, change is the only constant, so "long-term" support really can't be expected of anything tech related. IMHO legacy ASP will still be around for several more years, at least in the consumer market. Small sites that were built in ASP that want to expand their site's functionality may be faced with a decision: an expensive complete and NOT NECESSARILY better site overhaul (and, for that matter, time consuming, as well as a dip in SERP's as the file names will change) or, as an alternative, hire a "legacy" ASP 3.0 programmer to augment and enhance their existing site. For, lets say.... a big corporation I. E. IBM or Intel, etc... expensive overhauls may in fact be the better alternative, as the new functionality enabled by the more current tech may be worth it - and the bandwidth/server resource usage may be beneficial if they receive loads of traffic... whereas ma and pa who own an ASP 3.0 driven shoe store are probably going to pay $1000 to augment their existing ASP site, as opposed to rolling the dice on a complete overhaul (if it ain't broke, don't fix it) and spending easily 3-4 times as much.

I think of it as kinda like cars - you see alot of new or late model cars driving around that really require very specialized computer-oriented mechanics to work on, but there'll always be work for the handy, friendly, and affordable shade-tree mechanic who knows their stuff.

My opinion: If you're learning from scratch, learn the new stuff. If you're a seasoned programmer like me, still learn the new stuff - as i said, change is the only constant. one should always broaden their abilities - and be the life-long student. But there's going to be a niche market for ASP 3.0 for a long time to come still, and niche markets can be lucritive.

my .02!

VG

[jimrthy]

couldn't agree with you more. however, if by "long-term" you mean the next couple of years - i would have to disagree on that.

I meant the next, say, 15 years. Although a couple of years is pretty long-term in this industry.

<Excellent points about the value of ASP 3.0 for small jobs in the near future>

I think your analysis here is dead-on. The COBOL example I gave was sort of thinking along the same lines. Lots of COBOL programmers made a lot of money about 6 years ago because a lot of big corporations couldn't justify the cost of moving to a modern language.

But some languages do have hard-core, really long-term supporters. C and lisp spring to mind. Those will, most likely, always be worth learning. (Although I see less and less job opportunities with them. I think they're worth learning simply because of the things the teach you about programming).