A little about the sandbox

[kalius]

I found this quote on randfish blog (http://www.seomoz.org/blog.php) today :

The search spam engineer DaveN and I spoke with wouldn't tell me waht Google called the "sandbox" internally, but agreed that he'd just ry to call it sandbox internally from now on, so we could all be on the same page. He also was vehement that not all new sites are shot into it - you have to trip a filter (albeit a strict one) to get "boxed".


Maybe now together we can get an idea of this filter:cool:

[boohlick]

Nice info... kalius :)

[Tuning]

Quick linking may be the thing perhaps!

Thanks Kalius.

[kalius]

Links could be it, but if it's a really good filter, whats the different of a spam site heavy links with my cool new tech site that everyone links to...

[m1ke]

Links could be it, but if it's a really good filter, whats the different of a spam site heavy links with my cool new tech site that everyone links to...
This is the thing.

Slightly OT, but a guy on a different forum claims his site disappeared completely from Google. After e-mailing them, he received the following response..

"Websites can fall out of our index for many reasons, including penalization. Certain actions such as buying or selling links to increase a site's PageRank value or cloaking - writing text in such a way that it can be seen by search engines but not by users - can result in penalization.

We are sorry that we cannot provide individual assistance at this time."

Now, does anyone know how Google differentiates between buying links to "increase a site's PageRank value", and buying links to increase traffic to your site?

[Web Gazelle]

I don't know how they can differentiate between those two. I just play it safe and I don't buy links unless it is from trusted sources, like the Microsoft Small Business Directory.

[jazar]

mmmh, you sometimes needs to buy links for deep pages - you will not get this from directory, at least not easily.

[Web Gazelle]

Some payed directories do let you link to subpages, like the one mentioned above and another one I trust... Abilogic.

[netmar]

I don't see why they would penalize a poor business starter that registered his new websites to 100-200 of "ligit" directories. It would be unethical and stupid in my opinion. Actually, I believe this whole backlink thing will bury them someday but that's would go along with another subject. Anyway...as far as the sandbox goes, there is truly a noticeable filter there for new websites. What is it based on? Its anybody's guess but I have noticed that a few websites that I worked on got a boost after MSN launched their new engine. Is it cause it ended up on a highly respected website in the process? Possible but I suspect the Google toolbar to have something to do with it as it might be considering as some form of backlinks, websites you visit. It would then make sense that a well ranked website in MSN improve your Google ranking since people finding your website in MSN using "blue widget" as keyword have good chances to leave your website for another "blue widget" related website. See the link? You think it makes sense? lol

[Web Gazelle]

one thoery is that the sandbox filter is triggered by a new site showing up and getting tones of inbound links real fast. How can you avoid that? By getting inbound links a little at a time. However you will also avoid ranking well in all the SEs by getting inbound links a little at a time. :D

[netmar]

Your point is interesting Gazelle and many SEO experts believe so. Although, I have a list of general directories that I always submit to when launching a new SEO campaign. Why is it that one webiste would take up to 6 months before being considered while the other one would start doing well after a few weeks only? Have I used different strategies? No! This is why I'm suspecting the Google toolbar since most of my sites did good in MSN and ironicaly, they all got a little traffic boost from Google following the MSN engine launch.

[Web Gazelle]

My theory is from my experience with a new site of mine. I ranked in MSN almost right away and I was ranking in Yahoo after 3 months. Google took 9 months to rank me and the only thing I could think of that might cause it was that I aquired tons of links in a short time, and very shortly after I got my domain name.

[netmar]

What would you qualify as "tons of links"? I had a website that took about 7-8 months before getting some good results in Google with less than 200 backlinks acquired after the first month being online. Is 200 too much?

[Web Gazelle]

I am counting forum signature links and many free directories. I would say I had aquired more than 200. I would guess to say that playing it safe would be under 100 in a month.

[netmar]

The yes, maybe 100 is a realistic number since I was obviously stuck in the sandbox with about 200 links or less.

[Web Gazelle]

I plan on getting between 50 and 100 every month now to try to play it safe but you never know unless you work for Google.

[mjewel]

In my experience, there is absolutely nothing you can do to avoid the google sandbox. I've tried as little as 5 backlinks to over a hundred - no directory submissions other than DMOZ. New domains or domain names that change ownership (not developed sites) are automatically subject to the sandbox - although some sectors may not be subject to the sandbox (in my experience, it has been 100%). You can still get a number one ranking - but it is based on factors other than backlinks (which don't get counted during the sandbox). Rapid building of links might trigger some other filter but I haven't seen it.

I've never experienced any type of "sandbox" filter with MSN (even with 15,000 backlinks) but erratic yahoo results lead me to believe something can trigger a filter with Yahoo - not sure if it is backlinks.

Slow or consistent building of backlinks will always look more natural.

[Web Gazelle]

So then do you plan to just wait out the sandbox for new sites and target yahoo and MSN while your waiting?

[kalius]

There has to be a way to not trip the filter, Anyone had a site that didn't experience the sandbo effect after the sandbox was created?

[End]

its hard not to trip the sand filter.

I have tried it out with another site of mine. I think its boxed atm.
despite my attempts to link slowly.

[kalius]

I am prety sure links is only one of the factors to be boxed..

[Web Gazelle]

It seems that a new site is going to have to wait it out. I think that the best plan is to target MSN first. Wait about 2 months and check out your postions in MSN and Yahoo. I think at the moment, Yahoo is really messed up so I wouldn't ever target Yahoo unless I have a seperate site for just targeting Yahoo. So target the smaller SEs while you wait out the sandbox.

[kalius]

More info:

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/3443#comment-21261