Sandbox

[seoindia]

Is there any specific method or technique to get out of google sandbox to the earliest. I know that it is better to host the site early and when it is in sandbox use the period for backlinking. But is there any policy or stratergy to get out of sandbox as soon as possible.

[seodelhi]

Following are the ways you can get out of sandbox.

1)Get added in Dmoz.
2)Get links from authority sites related to your content.
3)Build unique content.

and finally, pray to god :)

[seoindia]

I think that its only the last one that i didnt know. Thanks for suggestion and let hope that its better to put a god prayer on index page of every site so that it automatically get out of sandboxed when the prayer is read.

[seodelhi]

I think that its only the last one that i didnt know. Thanks for suggestion and let hope that its better to put a god prayer on index page of every site so that it automatically get out of sandboxed when the prayer is read.


LOL :D , You can try this out as a last resort and let us know, if you are successfull may be others can do the same.

[mjewel]

Following are the ways you can get out of sandbox.

1)Get added in Dmoz.
2)Get links from authority sites related to your content.
3)Build unique content.

and finally, pray to god :)

The sandbox is where google will not count links to your site for SERPS for a period of time. This applies to new domains, and older, undeveloped domains that have had ownership changes. Some people claim the sandbox doesn't exist, but I know for a fact that it does. I don't know if google applies the sandbox to all categories, but I have never found a category where it doesn't.

Since links are very important to google, it is hard to rank well for competitive keywords. I have found the sandbox period of time to be almost exactly 3 months. Others claim it is longer, but I have not seen any evidence of that and I have kept very good records for a good number of sites in quite a few different categories. Sometimes sites don't rank for longer periods, but I think that is for other reasons. Google is constantly changing their algorithm and a site will all of a sudden start ranking without any changes being made to the site so people assume they just got out of the sandbox.

During the sandbox, google can show you have backlinks, will show PR, they just don't factor in the backlinks when they calculate their rankings. A DMOZ listing does not get you out of the sandbox- and it's pretty hard to get listed in DMOZ, and then into the updated google directory feed within 3 months of starting a site anyway.

Content has nothing to do with getting you out of the sandbox. You can still get traffic from google prior to getting out of the sandbox because of your content, it's just harder to do so because you don't have the benefit of backlinks counting as weight for your site.

When you build a new site, start building links as soon as possible. After the 3-4 month period passes, those links will be factored in by google when it calculates their rankings. Getting out of the sandbox doesn't mean you are going to jump to the top of the rankings, it just means those links will start counting as a "vote" for your site.

[Discreet]

Buy a PR8 or higher text link from a relevant site for 6 months. You'll be fully indexed by msn, yahoo, and google within a week, but you need to keep the link to sustain your search engine visits.

Make sure your link is from a relevant site though.

I've done this with several sites and it really saves time. Gets expensive though.

[mjewel]

Buy a PR8 or higher text link from a relevant site for 6 months. You'll be fully indexed by msn, yahoo, and google within a week, but you need to keep the link to sustain your search engine visits.

Make sure your link is from a relevant site though.

I've done this with several sites and it really saves time. Gets expensive though.

Indexing and the sandbox are two different things. Your site can be fully indexed but still in the sandbox. You don't need to buy a high PR link to get indexed within a week. All it takes is one link on a site that gets indexed daily. I registered a domain last week, got a link to the site, and was visited by msn, yahoo, and google within 24 hours of domain creation. On a large site, a deep crawl will take longer.

[seodelhi]

A DMOZ listing does not get you out of the sandbox- and it's pretty hard to get listed in DMOZ, and then into the updated google directory feed within 3 months of starting a site anyway.

I have two sites wherein they got added in DMOZ and google directory within 3 months and there was no sandbox effect on those sites, having said that they were not very competitive SERPS, but descent enough to bring some good traffic to my site.

Content has nothing to do with getting you out of the sandbox

Content(read unique content) has everything to do with a search engine my friend, not just sandbox, after all they exist to find content, how can they ignore it.

You know how does news sites get to top of SERPS as soon as their pages are indexed, even though those pages have no links and no relevant anchor text, this is because of the unique content that they offer.

CONTENT RULEZ.

[mjewel]

I have two sites wherein they got added in DMOZ and google directory within 3 months and there was no sandbox effect on those sites, having said that they were not very competitive SERPS, but descent enough to bring some good traffic to my site.



Content(read unique content) has everything to do with a search engine my friend, not just sandbox, after all they exist to find content, how can they ignore it.

You know how does news sites get to top of SERPS as soon as their pages are indexed, even though those pages have no links and no relevant anchor text, this is because of the unique content that they offer.

CONTENT RULEZ.

Pay closer attention. The sandbox only applies to links. It has NOTHING to do with content. I already said you can get traffic based on content, but you will not have the benefit of links during the sandbox. For competive terms, you will not get much, if any, traffic without the benefit of links.

"You know how does news sites get to top of SERPS as soon as their pages are indexed"

Surely you know that you don't need a link to a specific page to gain benefit of site links? And those "news sites" aren't new sites in the sandbox. Remember, we are talking about the sandbox.

Perhaps you could share with us the dates you submitted to DMOZ, got listed, and then had google update their directory feed- since it can take 3 months for google to do this- and provided you just happend to hit the time frame exactly right?

[mjewel]

I have two sites wherein they got added in DMOZ and google directory within 3 months and there was no sandbox effect on those sites, having said that they were not very competitive SERPS, but descent enough to bring some good traffic to my site.



01-15-2005, 03:45 AM
Replies: 3
IS this banned or not indexed???
Views: 95
Posted By seodelhi
IS this banned or not indexed???

www.kbametals.com

This site is up for quite some time now and even has a dmoz listing.... but just does not shows up in google...

Is this not indexed or is this banned...???

Any thoughts please...

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=7980



How were you getting traffic when your "dmoz site" wasn't even showing up in google? lol

Your site was also created in 2003 and by your own words "had been up for quite some time" and still wasn't even listed in google 1 1/2 years later, so the 3 month sandbox period wouldn't even apply.

[Web Gazelle]

Why not just enjoy your stay in the sandbox and focus on Yahoo and MSN while you wait it out?

[I, Brian]

Why not just enjoy your stay in the sandbox and focus on Yahoo and MSN while you wait it out?

Unfortunately, there's little more to do.

Unless you have a very old domain name, then my personal recommendation is to do your link-building in stages - slowly, but develop momentum.

Yahoo! is pretty decent for representing new content as well - once it finally indexes it.


mjewel - Your site is indexed, shows backlinks, shows for it's domain name.

EDIT: My mistake, see below. :)

[just-4-teens]

Following are the ways you can get out of sandbox.

1)Get added in Dmoz.

by the time DMOZ work out whether or not they are gonna list you, you will most likely be out the sandbox neway.

[spondishy]

Do you think there is a sandbox, or as already mentioned just an ageing effect on each link? Because all links are new, you have to wait for them to affect serps, giving some sort of sandbox theory more credence?

[mjewel]

Unfortunately, there's little more to do.

Unless you have a very old domain name, then my personal recommendation is to do your link-building in stages - slowly, but develop momentum.

Yahoo! is pretty decent for representing new content as well - once it finally indexes it.


mjewel - Your site is indexed, shows backlinks, shows for it's domain name.

That's not my site. That's seodelhi's site. The one that he said was getting decent google traffic and didn't get in the sandbox. :)

[seodelhi]

01-15-2005, 03:45 AM
Replies: 3
IS this banned or not indexed???
Views: 95
Posted By seodelhi
IS this banned or not indexed???

www.kbametals.com

Mjewel, the site that you have posted here is not the one i was talking about, this is altogether a different story.

this site was indexed in google, but due to some technical probs, the site had to be down for about 15 days and got de-indexed, thereafter it was not indexed for about 45 days in google and when it eventually did it started getting descent traffic staright away.

[mjewel]

Do you think there is a sandbox, or as already mentioned just an ageing effect on each link? Because all links are new, you have to wait for them to affect serps, giving some sort of sandbox theory more credence?

That's the defintion of the sandbox - a google filter put on using links for SERPS on new domains, or older domains that have had ownership changes. Google grandfathered older domain names - but to prevent someone from running out and buying an older domain, they lose their "grandfathered" status upon ownership transfer. Until a period of time passes (which in my experience lasts almost exactly 3 months) google will not count those links for purposes of rankings, but WILL index your site, show PR, and show backlinks. After the "sandbox" period of time, those links will be counted as "votes" or for site for ranking purposes. After you are out of the sandbox, new links start counting as soon as google indexes them.

I'm not talking about developed sites. Those are not affected by the sandbox upon ownership change - at least as long as the theme doesn't change. I'm not sure about changing the entire focus of the site to something entirely different.

[seodelhi]

That's the defintion of the sandbox - a google filter put on using links for SERPS on new domains, or older domains that have had ownership changes. Google grandfathered older domain names - but to prevent someone from running out and buying an older domain, they lose their "grandfathered" status upon ownership transfer. Until a period of time passes (which in my experience lasts almost exactly 3 months) google will not count those links for purposes of rankings, but WILL index your site, show PR, and show backlinks. After the "sandbox" period of time, those links will be counted as "votes" or for site for ranking purposes. After you are out of the sandbox, new links start counting as soon as google indexes them.

Very Very Interesting, Can you substantiate this with evidence?

[mjewel]

Mjewel, the site that you have posted here is not the one i was talking about, this is altogether a different story.

Then I'll ask you again. What site did you regisiter the domain, put up the site, submit to DMOZ, get approved and listed, and then catch the google directory update, and get your backlinks counted -- all within a 3 month period of domain registration?

[mjewel]

Very Very Interesting, Can you substantiate this with evidence?

The abstract of the google patent goes into such a filter, but doesn't get specific with time frame on how long it lasts.

I've posted this before, but here is more detail:

I had a domain which I owned since 1999. It wasn't a fully developed website, but did have PR, some backlinks, and was fully indexed. It didn't rank very well for any competitive terms, but was getting some traffic.

When I finally got around to developing the site, since it was selling an expensive product and the whois had my name and home address, I decided to change the information for security purposes. I listed a business name and different address.

Even though I was ranking in the top ten for certain keywords in Yahoo and MSN, google had completely dropped rankings out of the top 1000. The site is in a highly competive sector. I realized that changing my whois looked like an ownership transfer. The google patent talks about having the ability to check this and their filter.

I live in Northern California. I happened to meet someone who I mentioned my problem to - someone who would know the answer. I asked if changing the whois information could affect my rankings, specifically put me in the so-called sandbox. I told them the type of business, not the domain. For the record, they didn't say anything- and I understood why they couldn't- but sometimes you can know if you asked the right question. Almost exactly three months after I changed the whois information, my site jumped into the top 10 for some competitive keywords on google in a single day.

I have since kept track of when I registered a new domain, when I got the first links, and when I first show up in the google rankings. I have concluded the sandbox last for about 3 months. It has taken a slightly longer in some cases but because I don't know exactly when google has indexed a particular link or site, it still could be 3, not 3 1/2 months.

I am open to learning. If someone has a new domain (less than 3 months) that ranks well for competitive search terms on google, I would like to know about it if they feel comfortable with sharing their URL. I don't know if the sandbox is applied to every sector, or just certain competitive ones. In my case, I have always experienced it on new domains- but not on any domains I have owned for years- provided I hadn't made any changes to the whois.


Also, I'm currently running another test on the effectiveness of targeting a very competitive keyword with a high PR text link. I have never purchased one up until recently and I chose a keyword that I have never targeted (although it is releative to the site) and one which I do not rank in any of the three major search engines. I just started the experiment and will report the results after the next google toolbar update so I can include, if any, benefit to PR. It a high traffic site so I also want to see the results from a pure advertising-lead perspective.

[Tuning]

Thanks Mjewel for excellent posts. I have learned something new from your posts. ( again)

But I still have a question.

How can we know a particular site is in sandbox ?

[mjewel]

Thanks Mjewel for excellent posts. I have learned something new from your posts. ( again)

But I still have a question.

How can we know a particular site is in sandbox ?

If I have a domain that is developed, but is less than 3 months old, it is in the sandbox and nothing but time is going to change that. Continue building links during this time - which is sometimes hard because you aren't going to see any benefit immediately - and then when the time period passes, the filter on your links should be removed. If your site has been fully developed for more than 3-4 months, then I would start looking to make some changes or add more links because I don't think the problem is the sandbox - although many claim it lasts longer, I think there are too many other factors that could be the reason.

Google is constantly changes its algorithm and I stopped trying to chase down every little tweak. Content is King, but you have to play the link building game for now (which I hate). It's not highly unusual to see a #1 ranking drop out completely - with no changes - but it usually comes back. It's "normal" for google SERPS to change - and sometimes drastically. I wait at least a month before changing anything.

This has proved successful for me with google. Yahoo is a different story. I have no idea of what their problem is with new sites. I have many older sites that rank well with yahoo, but I am having a problem with yahoo including and then dropping a site. I have wondered whether this has something to do with new sites running adsense, but it's just a semi-thought right now. I had a new site get immediately indexed and ranked in yahoo and the site wasn't even completed. The only difference was I hadn't put adsense on the site (I ususally include adsense for design purposes even though I don't expect immediate clicks). I am putting up some new sites shortly and will put a photo where the adsense will go eventually. Older sites have no yahoo problem- with or without adsense.

I'll add that all my sites are original content, no template, affiliate sites or Amazon type shops. Some are e-commerce, some are informational only.

[Tuning]

Thanks Mjewel,

This was what I tried to check sandbox effect, but I'm not sure how much correct it can be.

I will try to search the term using allinanchor operator to determine the position so far. But I'm confused will I get the ranking shown after sandbox is removed.

could you enlighten about allinanchor and sandbox ?

Thanks.

[mjewel]

Thanks Mjewel,

This was what I tried to check sandbox effect, but I'm not sure how much correct it can be.

I will try to search the term using allinanchor operator to determine the position so far. But I'm confused will I get the ranking shown after sandbox is removed.

could you enlighten about allinanchor and sandbox ?

Thanks.

Sorry, I can't answer that question. Maybe someone else can.

I go by: Develped & indexed site older than 4 months = not in sandbox. Domain newer than 3 months = sandbox.

I don't think it is possible to "prove" it by any type of search. You may be out of the sandbox, but you aren't ranking high because of content or links.

Most highly competitive keywords require links to your site in order to rank well. If google isn't counting them, you won't show up the first hundred results. If you are ranking in the top 30 for a highly competitive keyword, then I would say you aren't in the sandbox.

Links are only one part of the key to ranking. You can still get traffic based on your content. I had a new domain that got results immediately because the domain name was the same as the keyword phrase i.e. if someone typed in "blue widgets" and the domain was "bluewidgets.com" google is going to give you traffic even without any links.

Use the digitalpoint "keyword suggestion" tool to get an idea of how many searches are being performed for your keyword. That will give you an idea of how competitive it is.

When I first started, I tried those guidlines of keyword density percentages, etc., but I gave up trying to find the magic formula and just concentrated on naturally sounding text that uses the keyword phrase I am trying to target. I am not an expert by any means.

[exam]

I don't think it is possible to "prove" it by any type of search. You may be out of the sandbox, but you aren't ranking high because of content or links.t any links.Someone posted a link to this tool that supposedly shows you what the Google results would be without certain filters. I'm not sure if it totally convinces me, but you may see higher listings for your websites, and that ranking *may* be what you would have if you wern't in the sandbox. Here's the link http://roberttaft.com/no_filter.htm In any case, it's kinda interesting :)

[I, Brian]

Sandbox means different things to different people - which I guess reflects the fact that Google have probably different variables tweaked in different ways.

As a linkbuilder, you used to be able to drop tens of thousands of links and see an impact within weeks. Now it can take months. Last client I had sandboxed was there for 6 months, but his rankings have come out fighting since. Ultimately, need patience, and think SEO as a long-term project with long-term goals for most business applications, most especially with relatively younger domains.

[seodelhi]

If someone has a new domain (less than 3 months) that ranks well for competitive search terms on google, I would like to know about it if they feel comfortable with sharing their URL

Mjewel, what according to you is a competitive search term..

P.S - I have PM'd You my site's URL.

[seoindia]

I agree with mjewel sandbox has nothing to do with dmoz listing. Its like a that ur website has been suspended for atleast 3 months prison period and u can get bail depending upon the quality backling u have done during that period. During sandbox u will be able to see backlinks but still ur SERPS are no where.

[markkk]

Sandbox is not only consider how old your site is. The old of your backlinks also a factor. Listing at Dmoz cannot guarantee that you'll get out of the sandbox. but it helps.

I suggest while your site still in the box, go for PPC or target a non competitive keyword.

Cheers!:)

[Web Gazelle]

My experience has been that while I am waiting out the sandbox and doing SEO for MSN and Yahoo, that will help me when I am out of the sandbox.

[End]

Following are the ways you can get out of sandbox.

1)Get added in Dmoz.
2)Get links from authority sites related to your content.
3)Build unique content.

and finally, pray to god :)

I dun think so...;)

[Web Gazelle]

The only way to get out of the sandbox is to pray night and day to the google god.