Sandbox - In for a long time?

[J.P]

Hi, only joined up lately so first post in here (be nice :) )

I know this question has no doubt been asked many times but I need to know :)

I produced a web site (Travel related) around November 2004, since doing this I gained a few links and try to promote the site.

At the time I didn't know about the google sandbox (get to many links to fast = sandbox theory). After reading and trying to understand SEO more I've re-done the site, kept adding content, gained links (not to quick).

I've found I'm still no where to be seen in google and it's now on the 8th month of being in the sandbox, any idea's on how long will I have to wait?

I do get around 150 visitors to the site a day but the majority are from Yahoo, although this is great, there is still more people using google hence I would like to be found in google :)

Basically, is it normal to be in this long or should I expect longer?

JP

[zez]

I have a travel related site which was in a sandbox for 10 months. Be patient, it should not be long...PM me if you want exchange links.....

[ServerUnion]

Your niche may be saturated also. Take a look at your optimization strategies.

[jstroh]

I have a travel related site which was in a sandbox for 10 months. Be patient, it should not be long...PM me if you want exchange links.....

10months ;(

[mjewel]

I do not think you are in the sandbox after 10 months. While some think the sandbox lasts up to 6 months, I have found it lasts almost exactly 3 months. Look at your competition and see how many backlinks they have and what their PR is. As long as you don't have any hidden text, etc., on your site, you may just not be ranking because google doesn't consider your site as an authority site. You said "gained a few links" and without knowing how many that is, that could be your problem. You are going to need a lot of links to rank well in a highly competitive sector like travel for prime keywords.

Your Page Rank should give you an indication on what google thinks about your backlinks. PR isn't everything, but it's an indicator for google. When you obtained those links is another factor.

[J.P]

Using a back link checker I can give you the following information:-

Google 5

MSN 507

AltaVista 289

Yahoo! 292

AllTheWeb 284

Total 1377

I have around 474 pages indexed by Google.

I have a lot more for google this I'm sure of but they don't show up. I can't guess how many directories I've submitted to, I've lost count.

My site does not use and never will black hat, it passes HTML 4.01 and CSS verifacation, keyword density is around 8% for some chosen keywords (higher on some but not by much).

I rank top on Yahoo / top or first page on a few other search engines but with google I believe my site is coming up around position 480 for the same keywords.

I'm at a loss anyway, if my site should be out I would like to think it should rank higher than position 480 :(

Any other advice?

JP

[WorldImpulse]

Ohk i know its difficult but dude Patience is the name of the game :D .

Dont lose hope and keep on working .... as per my experience it takes around around 4-5 months for each new like to show its effect.... but your case may be its taking a ittle longer coz your field is bit more competitive....

You will surely have better rankings very soon...:)

[GuyFromChicago]

I had a site in the sandbox for over a year that just recently was let free to play with the other sites in the serps.

As others have said, patience is key.

[J.P]

ok cheers for the comments, it's hard work waiting this long to still have no results from google :)

[mjewel]

Using a back link checker I can give you the following information:-

Google 5

JP


If google is only showing 5 back links, that is your problem. You need more quality links from relevant sites to rank with competitive keywords. There isn't a magic number of links, but 5 isn't near enough imo. You didn't mention your PR, but I have some PR5 dmoz listed sites, with hundreds of links from revelvant sites that have a PR4 or higher and it is still hard to rank well for certain keywords.

In a highly competitive field, you are going up against sites that pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for high PR links. You might want to try focus on ranking for some niche keywords that aren't as competitive. Again, it all depends on what keywords you are going after.

I would start with finding sites that rank high for the keywords you are going after, look at what they are doing, and also check what their PR and backlinks are. I think you'll get an idea of what you need to do.

Good luck.

[Doppy]

How do you know if you're in the sandbox or if Google just thinks you suck?

[mnemtsas]

I have a site that is no 1 to 5 for allinanchor/url/title for 5 chosen KW, several thousand BL, varied anchor text, 5 k of coop weight pointing at various terms. It's top 5 in yahoo and MSN. Put up November 2004 and is still nowhere to be seen in Google. I feel for you. I know one day I'm going to get up and see traffic doubled or tripled in one night. I hope :D

[J.P]

my PR is currently standing at 3.

I know I have more backlinks than 5 in google, when doing some research I basically entered in my keyword, the top sites I looked at, none really have a PR higher than 3-5, so I checked there baklinks and got in touch with the webmaster of those sites for backlinks, this did work to a extent and got a few (can't remember how many as it was a while ago) backlinks off pages that do rank high for chosen keywords.

with allinanchor I'm also on the first page for 3/4 keywords.

I guess like most I will have to keep on waiting :)

Doppy:
I believe, that if your site ranks well with other search engines but either not found on google or on page 40> it normally means you are in the sandbox (this is what I've read)

JP

[Web Gazelle]

I do not think you are in the sandbox after 10 months. While some think the sandbox lasts up to 6 months, I have found it lasts almost exactly 3 months. Look at your competition and see how many backlinks they have and what their PR is. As long as you don't have any hidden text, etc., on your site, you may just not be ranking because google doesn't consider your site as an authority site. You said "gained a few links" and without knowing how many that is, that could be your problem. You are going to need a lot of links to rank well in a highly competitive sector like travel for prime keywords.

Your Page Rank should give you an indication on what google thinks about your backlinks. PR isn't everything, but it's an indicator for google. When you obtained those links is another factor.

It varies in length of time for the sandbox but it can last over a year.

[mjewel]

my PR is currently standing at 3.

I know I have more backlinks than 5 in google, when doing some research I basically entered in my keyword, the top sites I looked at, none really have a PR higher than 3-5, so I checked there baklinks and got in touch with the webmaster of those sites for backlinks, this did work to a extent and got a few (can't remember how many as it was a while ago) backlinks off pages that do rank high for chosen keywords.



Google doesn't show all backlinks, but they usually select for the "better" PR ones. What they show is an "indicator". It used to be only PR4 or higher, but they changed that. I don't think you need to have lower quality backlinks removed (unless they are from banned sites) but they obviously don't count as much towards PR.

You may also be getting a penalty for over optimizing your page if you are keywords stuffing.

[mjewel]

It varies in length of time for the sandbox but it can last over a year.

How do you know this? I see a lot of people who complain about being in the sandbox, but their site isn't ranking for various other reasons. Sometimes they jump into rankings when google changes the algorithm so they "think" they just got out of the sandbox.

What sector are you referring to? I have quite a few sites in many different categories, some supposedly on the top hit list for the sandbox, but have never seen it last longer than 4 months - and since I don't know when google indexed the links, it may have only been 3 months.

If there are "newer" sites in the sector that are ranking well, then it isn't the sandbox.

[J.P]

Hi again,

Used a online program and checked my Keyword Density, the very highest I get is 12.02% which I don't think is to high? (although not totally sure) :)

JP

[fryman]

I was in the sandbox for about 14 months. Just got out and climbing back up.

Couldn't be happier since my site is Christmas related and should be well ranked by december :D

[sexylady]

hi there,
new here
well, new sites usually stayed in sand box minimum of six months.
if you don't want your site putted in the sand box you have to target non-competitive keywords.
and of course, PATIENCE is a virtue!!!

cheers :)

[Web Gazelle]

Exactly. There is some sort of aging filter that will prevent your site from ranking for high competitive search terms. I don't know what causes a site to get filtered but the time for waiting seems to be anywhere from 6 months to over a year for some.

[Design Agent]

Drop the density down to 5% or less - I us around 3% at the moment - although this doesnt matter exactly. Make sure word combinations are in the correct order, proximity to each other and in the right places.

Get some high quality relevant links - ideally from relevant homepages. Vary the anchor text alot and target less competitive terms initially. You dont need thousands of links you need 'good' ones ;)

[J.P]

I think some of the problem is my IBL, although I have a lot none are really top quality, I have a couple from good high ranking sites but thats it, with out spending some cash I find it hard to get quality links for travel (maybe I'm looking in the wrong place though :) )

[web-rover]

I hear ya brother.

It sucks.

but when you get out...it's so rewarding :)

[Web Gazelle]

While your site is in the sandbox why not target the other SEs?

[J.P]

Hi,

Don't get me wrong, I'm #1 on yahoo and first page with msn with my keywords but I don't get "a lot" of traffic. 150 visitors a day maybe, I am thankfull for this but naturally just after more, hopefully once released from the sandbox I should get some more traffic :)

Cheers for everyone's input though :)

JP

[Web Gazelle]

Target additional KWs. If you rank well for one KW and get 150 visitors a day then target another and double that traffic.

[azshah]

Although I recently went into the google hibernation (sandbox) I still think this sandbox thing is smart on google's part and fair to older websites.

[Max5]

I had a couple sites that were deleted domains before I got them, the were out of Google for exactly 1 year, I had a couple other sites that were new domain names that were sandboxed for around 10 months.