Is Shoemoney a spammer?

[qwestcommunications]

http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2006/12/06/internet-advertising-search-tech_cx_ag_1207google.html

It seems, at least, according to this article, that ShoeMoney was an arbitrageur and he never had really good webistes that could stand on their own two feet. He has made a staggering $2 million from arbitraging over two years. Interestingly, the article quotes him as being unemployed prior to making these staggering sums.

I am sure he becamae something of a folk hero to many people here on DP dreaming about their riches.

[SNap3]

Great article :) He praobly is :p

[Smyrl]

Spam is in the eye of the beholder. Other's spam, I sell <wink> <wink>

[qwestcommunications]

Having digested the article fully, it seems he is proud of his spamming ways by trying to deceive google even after they came up with certain techniques to stop them in their tracks.

[Austars]

Either way, he's good at what he does.

[amitpatel_3001]

Jeremy Schoemaker >> Didnt knew his real name :)

[Sem-Advance]

Actually Shoe always said he was not an SEO, but that he was smart at using a computer and he learned things very well.

And while he may have been unemployed his wife was an anestesilogist which means after paying a hefty malpractice insurance premium theres some money left over for hubby to sit home and play.

:D

But shoe may come by and be more accurate

[Futures_Equity]

read his site he says that they skewed the perspective on it. this is taken from his site
There are very few things in this story that are true. Most of them have quotes around them (because that is what I actually said). The rest he assumed or tried to piece together from interviews I have done and my other blog posts.


I would assume the fact the reporter never linked to 1 source throughout his entire article (except the google stock) would be somewhat telling.

Hrmm might be misleading? How about the 2 million dollar sum you name? I never even started doing arbitrage until last spring… I say that on my blog many times. (course that would mean you actually check sources)

[DodgyAnt]

Wow, Adsense Arbitrage seems pretty interesting. Funnily enough, I've never heard about it before. Thank you for that, I guess you learn something new everyday :D

[ReadyToGo]

I don't know, but that link made my browser go out of control.
Anyway, I think this has been discussed before, but I can't find the link.

[SteveAR]

wow that article must hurt but hey if hes getting paid then let it be

this paragraph is amazing to me
Schoemaker insists he and others have in fact found a way to circumvent the crackdown. He says he uses techniques like “cloaking” to fool Google’s algorithm. Arbitrageurs know the search engine’s IP addresses, the fingerprints that reveal the source of any Web page visitor. So Schoemaker says he sets his web pages to automatically display legitimate content to the Google spider, while giving other users the ad-filled arbitrage page. Schoemaker says that makes him virtually immune to Google’s quality-regulation measures.

are these his actual words? was he interviewed and let out his secret? shoe where are you post up bro.

[Nintendo]

http://www.shoemoney.com/2006/12/07/forbes-article/

[qwestcommunications]

Well, nice to have his side of the story. It seems a very reputable source like Forbes cannot be trusted blindly.

[frisby]

Hm... he is using also black hat SEO. :/

[igotrichonline]

nice article

[Hon Daddy Dad]

Well, nice to have his side of the story. It seems a very reputable source like Forbes cannot be trusted blindly.

:rolleyes: Maybe I'll have to review my faith based policy on everything I read from a major media publication.

[fortgo]

Well, of course he uses BlackHat, 99.5% of
Big Earning guys DO SO!

This is why it pissed me off when today I tried
to give a link for a free BlackHat Adsense ebook,
- some of the posters treated me badly, so I
asked the moderators to close/delete the post.

In any case I am kind of very pleased that the
people believing that BIG money could be made
with the normal white hat techniques are learning
the truth finally, even though they seem kind of
disappointed in their "hero's"...LOL
This is how things are...

If you want to make it big - see how the Big boys do it,
learn their techniques, and decide on which side of
the coin you'd like to work, white, black, or perhaps gray...

[terryuk]

Cool article - but really who care's? Shoemoney is known by thousands if not millions worldwide for what he does.. and he does it well

[AbdullahFarouk]

I am really sceptical about the article. I mean, if Google really felt that he was one of the big spammers -- then why wouldn't they just close his adwords/adsense accounts? If they know what they know about him and let him do this, whose fault is it?

[m0rtal]

I am really sceptical about the article. I mean, if Google really felt that he was one of the big spammers -- then why wouldn't they just close his adwords/adsense accounts? If they know what they know about him and let him do this, whose fault is it?

As was apparently clarified by him the article is not true, however, even if it was why would they close his accounts? Same reason you have all these MFA sites, Google needs to make their money too.

[qwestcommunications]

I am not entirely convinced of the article either. However, arbitrage in itself is not illegal, in fact, I would think it requires a great deal of skill, so I guess he is brilliant at it.

[Blogmaster]

Shoemoney is very successful. He also is very skilled. Whatever he does or doesn´t do is ok in my book. He´s a cool dude. Instead of talking about him, everyone should read his blog, his posts and listen to his radio show.



- Mike

[LaCabra]

Shoemoney is very successful. He also is very skilled. Whatever he does or doesn´t do is ok in my book. He´s a cool dude. Instead of talking about him, everyone should read his blog, his posts and listen to his radio show.


Exactly Mike ... or better yet elbows on the desk, hands on the keyboard and quit bitching and complaining. 99% of you would give your left nut to be in Shoemoney's Shoes!!!!

FORTGO - and who says no one is making good money with white-hats sites? Look around numb nuts!:rolleyes: Your BS post for adsense blackhat sites was not an information item or a courtesy link - it was an affiliate link, so that you can get some freebies from the site, so don't start yapping and playing innocent!

[sv800]

I love media

From: Jeremy Schoemaker
Date: December 7, 2006 4:32:20 PM CST
To: Andy Greenberg
Subject: Re: Forbes.com reporter with questions about Adword Arbitrage

Andy-

You totally make it sound like I am doing meso sites and cloaking for google. What the hell dude? This is really bad stuff.

and his response :

From: “Andy Greenberg”
Date: December 7, 2006 4:54:21 PM CST
To: “Jeremy Schoemaker”
Subject: Re: Forbes.com reporter with questions about Adword Arbitrage

Jeremy,
You told me that you were cloaking your sites and I read about it in your blog…that’s what got me interested in this story in the first place. Are you angry that it looks like you were doing the mesothelioma thing in particular?
I’m not sure what’s so bad about that. But I’m sorry if you feel like I misrepresented you. I wrote that you were arbitraging terms like teeth whitening, mortgages and ringtones. The meso reference was meant just to be a simple example, though my editor added in a transition that might be misleading. I’m still not sure how this would be an issue. But if it is…my apologies.

[real]

I wonder if shoe was ever smartpriced. We'd all apreciate if he gives hints about current status of his adsense sites.

[AdsenseChic]

As a Journalist, all I can say is that the article is misleading. I do not know Shoemoney personally but I think we all can be very sure that he will never say anything stupid to jeopardize his relationship with Google. The reporter purposely tried to portrait him as a shady-guy, not because he may have something against him, simply because he wanted to make his article controversial to Shoemoney's expense. I worked with guys like that FOR YEARS.

[fortgo]

LaCabra,

Why can't you be civil when you talk to others?
Maybe it's normal for you to call people whom you
don't know "numb nuts"? Keep on with it than :D .

And I did not say white hatters do not make good money.
There is however a big difference in my book between
good money and huge money...

And once more - instead of barking at me that I posted
a link that cost ONLY an email address, which after
downloading the ebook could be very easily deleted,
it is still puzzling me, why such a hard, and unfriendly,
and un-kind treatment by people like you.

Thus, I said it before and will repeat it - never
again I will share a freebie in a forum, or whatever
else for that matter.

Take care

[Blogmaster]

As a Journalist, all I can say is that the article is misleading. I do not know Shoemoney personally but I think we all can be very sure that he will never say anything stupid to jeopardize his relationship with Google. The reporter purposely tried to portrait him as a shady-guy, not because he may have something against him, simply because he wanted to make his article controversial to Shoemoney's expense. I worked with guys like that FOR YEARS.

Well said, agreed 100%. That´s the nature of the business, get attention at any or anyone´s cost.

[MrPoloShirt]

Guys he sorted all this out on his blog. Try to pay attention or don't bother to have an opinion.

[ottodo]

http://www.shoemoney.com/2006/12/07/forbes-article/

I told ya before, you are da king

I read this link not the one in first post :D :D

cuz if u want to know smth go to the person who is responsible about, and listen to what he is saying, don't listen to what the others say

[Blogmaster]

LOL I can´t believe the amount of ppl reading this thread now. Anything about shoe gets attention ;)

[AdsenseChic]

LOL I can´t believe the amount of ppl reading this thread now. Anything about shoe gets attention ;)

People LOVE controversy, it sells! Can you see why the reporter wrote such article? :rolleyes:

[kriskarkoski]

Whether he is or isn't it sure is an interesting read.

[Blogmaster]

People LOVE controversy, it sells! Can you see why the reporter wrote such article? :rolleyes:

Yeah, for the same reason papparazzies are hiding in bushes. heh

[Sem-Advance]

Actually shoe does not claim he does not cloak... he just said it was not for mesotheliomia.

He did at one time it seems, cloak his landing pages in Adwords, sending spiders to content heavy optimized pages to increase his position in PPC at a lower cost, and was serving ad heavy adsense pages to the ad clickers.

This is not blackhat so to speak as it does not involve organic results cloaking.

And since this is not against adwords TOS, apparently they cannot / could not shut peoples accounts down who do this.

[LaCabra]

Thus, I said it before and will repeat it - never
again I will share a freebie in a forum, or whatever
else for that matter.


Wake up! You never did share a freebie!!!


And once more - instead of barking at me that I posted
a link that cost ONLY an email address, which after
downloading the ebook could be very easily deleted,
it is still puzzling me, why such a hard, and unfriendly,
and un-kind treatment by people like you.


Need I say more?


Here's a little something for your troubles, available in all the WHITE HAT Google colors!!!!!


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2005/images/soother_pacifiers.jpg

[Sem-Advance]

Schoemaker certainly isn’t worried about Google tracking down his arbitrage sites, whose urls he declined to reveal. “Arbitrage is only growing, and the only way they’ll stop it is by stopping Adwords altogether,” he says.

I also did not see Shoe claiming he did not say the above.

[Shoemoney]

I also did not see Shoe claiming he did not say the above.

again... as posted on my blog and also above... the only thing I said to that reporter is what he actual has in quotes.

Yes i said arbitrage is growing and the only way for google to stop it is to stop adwords.

There is like only 3 quotes from me in that entire article. They are very short

[AdsenseChic]

again... as posted on my blog and also above... the only thing I said to that reporter is what he actual has in quotes.

Yes i said arbitrage is growing and the only way for google to stop it is to stop adwords.

There is like only 3 quotes from me in that entire article. They are very short

Shoe, as a Journalist I would suggest you to stop giving these cheap reporters an interview, it can become quite a headache if you do not watch out.

[Nite]

Interesting.

[m0rtal]

Shoe, as a Journalist I would suggest you to stop giving these cheap reporters an interview, it can become quite a headache if you do not watch out.

Then as a journalist you should also know that almost any publicity is good publicity :)

Again I say almost because it can ruin the image for a business but in this case I don't really see any harm done (business wise) to him other than getting more people to talk about him..

[Shoemoney]

this story is almost a week old lol...

its not that big of deal

[nevetS]

Any media exposure is good media exposure.

They got it wrong. Anybody who follows up on the article can see Shoe's side of the story on his blog - and just might learn a thing or two while they are there.

Listen to the radio show, read the blog, read what he has to say here. He's not a saint, and he's not a villain. He's just a guy like the rest of us working his tail off to make a buck. He's been a valuable member of the community longer than most, and he's one of very few people that has shared his tactics without turning around and trying to sell you an e-book or a "membership" in the next sentence.

[Sem-Advance]

"All your saints are sinners"

One day Shoe can buy Fortune and fire the reporter.....

Turn about is fair play ;)

[sixav]

Umm What I can expect is there will be some more thousands of people go to skirting Google system with this method as advised in Forbes's article for sure.

[Nite]

Umm What I can expect is there will be some more thousands of people go to skirting Google system with this method as advised in Forbes's article for sure.

What do you think the results will be?

Everyone on DP should do this now. :eek:

[jackburton2006]

Exactly Mike ... or better yet elbows on the desk, hands on the keyboard and quit bitching and complaining. 99% of you would give your left nut to be in Shoemoney's Shoes!!!!

I like having both nuts, thank you very much.

PS. Google can stop this if they want, but they won't, because it makes them too much money. ;)

[alext]

Arbitrage.

Oh, scary.

"Buy low, sell high"

Um... oh yeah capitalism.

[qwestcommunications]

Yes, Shomeoney might a genuine guy and all, but when one reads that piece they would sure be inclined to think otherwise. They would get the impression he is a bit dodgy.That piece puts him in really bad light. Remember, this isn't mine or the views of anyone else on DP, but the views of a reporter working for a hugely popular publication that will have been read by a lot of people.

[tonyinabox]

hhaah another good fight!

[guna]

I never thought high of shoemoney.com.. Strictly for guys who like to make-the-quick-buck without any sweat..

[amnezia]

Oh my god shoemoney uses less than pure whitehat techniques! That really is story of the century. :rolleyes:

[010081]

great news to hear here.oh so that was your name "Jeremy Schoemaker"
i was wondering how you got that domain in your mind.

[sv800]

The arbitrage stuff is at youtube...watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuXilEu2EfI

[Blogmaster]

You can´t be Mother Theresa and expect to succeed in this business.

[MN Sandy]

Yep, AdWords and quality score and cloacking is great thing to have :) The WH meets the BH, just because of these restrictions! :)

[hextraordinary]

Can someone explain to me what arbitrage have to do with spamming?

[qwestcommunications]

Can someone explain to me what arbitrage have to do with spamming?

It says they draw people to contentless pages that have high paying keywords.

[amnezia]

arbitrage has nothing to do with spamming

[hextraordinary]

It says they draw people to contentless pages that have high paying keywords.

Thats not spamming

[qwestcommunications]

arbitrage has nothing to do with spamming

No, but many people playing the arbitrage game draw people to pages that have nothing but high paying ads. This, I would say, is spamming. However, arbitrage in itself is not spam.

[tbarr60]

Arbitrage historically was simultaneously buying in one market and selling in another and making an easy profit. An example would be buying Elbonian Lire in New York at 1200 to the dollar and selling them in London at 1203. I was visiting a relative at a big Asian bank and a door opened and a bunch of young guys came out celebrating that they had made a million dollars that day on foreign exchange trades.

The Google Adsense site advertises Google Adwords so the so-called Google Arbitrage is something Google promotes (assuming you have some content or products). Buy low sell high!

[qwestcommunications]

Arbitrage historically was simultaneously buying in one market and selling in another and making an easy profit. An example would be buying Elbonian Lire in New York at 1200 to the dollar and selling them in London at 1203. I was visiting a relative at a big Asian bank and a door opened and a bunch of young guys came out celebrating that they had made a million dollars that day on foreign exchange trades.

The Google Adsense site advertises Google Adwords so the so-called Google Arbitrage is something Google promotes (assuming you have some content or products). Buy low sell high!

Please do not romanticise the concept of arbitrage.

[netmaster123]

Why is everyone making such a big deal just because other smarter webmasters make money from high paying keywords.

This technique applies for any business.

Buy low, sell high for a profit!

Example: You buy keywords cheap to drive traffic to your affiliates and to make $$ it is the same thing BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH FOR A PROFIT.

So if a advertise likes to spend $4 per click and you can drive traffic to your site for $.05 with a high CTR WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT!!


THAT IS HOW BUSINESS WORKS!!

How do you think WALMART makes thri money!! They buy merchandise at a fraction of a cost to sell it to customers for a higher price.

IS THIS WRONG TOO?? THAT IS HOW BUSINESS WORKS!

Come on people!! .....................

[Shoemoney]

Please do not romanticise the concept of arbitrage.

You might want to look up what arbitrage actually is.... You participate in it everyday.

Many of us whitehats do arbitrage.

[scubita]

ok,

so if i buy adwords to take visitors to my site that sells nothing (it teaches how to do something) and as blocks of adsense in it, so people can say "hey, they don´t sell the product, let´s click in these ads of the product"...

IS THIS LEGAL FOR GOOGLE?

really don´t get it. some say yes. some say no.

[netmaster123]

ok,

so if i buy adwords to take visitors to my site that sells nothing (it teaches how to do something) and as blocks of adsense in it, so people can say "hey, they don´t sell the product, let´s click in these ads of the product"...

IS THIS LEGAL FOR GOOGLE?

really don´t get it. some say yes. some say no.

You need to provide useful content to your visitors, it is againts TOS to display ads on non content pages.

[MrPoloShirt]

so if i buy adwords to take visitors to my site that sells nothing (it teaches how to do something) and as blocks of adsense in it, so people can say "hey, they don´t sell the product, let´s click in these ads of the product"...

Google will say, "hey, they don' t sell teh product, let's ban in these ads offer their webpages."

[Shoemoney]

ok,

so if i buy adwords to take visitors to my site that sells nothing (it teaches how to do something) and as blocks of adsense in it, so people can say "hey, they don´t sell the product, let´s click in these ads of the product"...

IS THIS LEGAL FOR GOOGLE?

really don´t get it. some say yes. some say no.

Good question many people will have comments on that always but the answer lies with emailing google..... period

[scubita]

Good question many people will have comments on that always but the answer lies with emailing google..... period

Just did weeks ago and Google adverted me that they found "invalid clicks..." and "they will get in touch with me IF i had to change something"...

I stopped all the adwords campaigns. Period. Don´t want a ban to my account.

But i think Google HAS the obligation to tell people whats right or wrong.

by the way, Shoemoney, good to see your alive and kickin´.

Greetings from Portugal!

Scubita

[gworld]

You need to provide useful content to your visitors, it is againts TOS to display ads on non content pages.

Google will say, "hey, they don' t sell teh product, let's ban in these ads offer their webpages."

Is Google providing any content in their own pages, except link to other sites? Are they selling anything in their pages, except the adwords? Doesn't this mean that they are breaking their own TOS? :confused:

[Amilo]

I dont think it is possible with the new Google affiliate algo to do Arbitage without cloaking,do you agree with that statement Shoe ?

[scubita]

Google will say, "hey, they don' t sell teh product, let's ban in these ads offer their webpages."

my site doesent sell anything, it teaches how to do someting.

but the adsense blocks has ads of the product i teach.

:rolleyes:

[ablaye]

Schoemaker certainly isn’t worried about Google tracking down his arbitrage sites, whose urls he declined to reveal. “Arbitrage is only growing, and the only way they’ll stop it is by stopping Adwords altogether,” he says.

Anyone knows shoemoney's urls??? :D

[scubita]

You need to provide useful content to your visitors, it is againts TOS to display ads on non content pages.

:rolleyes: almost everyday i create a new page with original and useful content.

Trust me, if there´s something that makes me angry is stuff like this:

http://www.copacabanarunners.net/clinica.html

How can Google doesen´t see this?

[latehorn]

http://www.shoemoney.com/2006/12/07/forbes-article/
"Of course this was buying Microsoft Adcenter, Google Adwords, and Yahoo Search Marketing traffic to send to affiliate pages but… who cares about the facts?"

..ehm?

[vic_msn]

boy! I wish I were in his neighborhood but one condition he helps me make $8000 a month :D

[jackburton2006]

I can't believe this thread is still going. LMAO.

[articlebazar]

Cool article, Shoemoney is definitely well known over the Internet particularly the webmaster world, adored by thousands if not millions which makes me visit his blog on a daily basis.

[hextraordinary]

Since when exactly you are not allowed to send adwords campaigns to pages with adsense on them?

I've never heard of it.

[kidder]

I am really sceptical about the article. I mean, if Google really felt that he was one of the big spammers -- then why wouldn't they just close his adwords/adsense accounts? If they know what they know about him and let him do this, whose fault is it?

Because they are making money from him - Buying traffic from one place and sending it to another is just business. Spam is a different matter altogether. As long as he delivers value to the advertisers then there should be no problem.

[hereyago]

he's a great man

[adolix]

i don't know if this has been posted before... if it has been, skip my message :)
i just found a nice ShoeMoney video: http://www.alsuran.net/2006/12/10/shoemoney-video/

[ablaye]

If shoemoney can advertise on the open that he is cheating Google, I wonder why Google has not banned him.

[Angelus]

If shoemoney can advertise on the open that he is cheating Google, I wonder why Google has not banned him.

Because of the money that he brings to G?

p.l.u.r.

[Motter]

If shoemoney can advertise on the open that he is cheating Google, I wonder why Google has not banned him.

once again look up and see what arbitrage is. It's buying something in a market that is cheap and selling that same something in a market that is high.

Let's not forget that google gets paid 2 times on this transaction. and the publisher pays once and gets paid the second time.