Weed, Pot, Marijuana.....Legalize it or not?

[Daniel]

What's your opinion? Should Maryjane be legal?

[digitalpoint]

I think they should legalize it, and I don't even smoke it.

[MELLA]

Yes.

I live in Amsterdam, people think it's legal here but it isn't. It's just tollerated.

I think it should be legalised. Holland's got it right - It is much easier to keep a check on things (prostitution/weed) if it's open opposed to if it is done in secret..which it is. It's also made into such a big deal in England ect because it's illegal and naughty oh errrrr...I know sooooo many dutch people that have lived their whole life around coffeeshops and smart shops (they sell herbal Extacy ecttttt) and they have never touched drugs in their life and have never even been bothered about smoking a spliff because they are around it day in, day out and it looses it's appeal.

I dunno if i'm making sense, im so tired :o

[Daniel]

I think they should legalize it, and I don't even smoke it.

Me too :) and I DO :)

The amount of lines or perl code I have written while high is crazy :) To tell you the truth it helped me focus and I managed to learn perl pretty damn well and the majority of the time I was a smokin :P

[Daniel]

Yes.

I live in Amsterdam, people think it's legal here but it isn't. It's just tollerated.

I think it should be legalised. Holland's got it right - It is much easier to keep a check on things (prostitution/weed) if it's open opposed to if it is done in secret..which it is. It's also made into such a big deal in England ect because it's illegal and naughty oh errrrr...I know sooooo many dutch people that have lived their whole life around coffeeshops and smart shops (they sell herbal Extacy ecttttt) and they have never touched drugs in their life and have never even been bothered about smoking a spliff because they are around it day in, day out and it looses it's appeal.

I dunno if i'm making sense, im so tired :o

The RED-ZONE!!! Some day C and I will take a vacation to amsterdam :) I always wanted to go :)

[Colleen]

Me too and I DO

The amount of lines or perl code I have written while high is crazy To tell you the truth it helped me focus and I managed to learn perl pretty damn well and the majority of the time I was a smokin
Did you post this to make me have to ring yer neck!? :p

Hurrah to all the people with blackened lungs, hurrah to the invite to cancer, hurrah hurrah!! :D :confused: :mad:

What's the "RED-ZONE"?

[Daniel]

Did you post this to make me have to ring yer neck!? :p

Hurrah to all the people with blackened lungs, hurrah to the invite to cancer, hurrah hurrah!!

Cigarettes are the KILLER my sweet :)

but you can ring my neck if you'd like.....or you can try :)

[Colleen]

Cigarettes are the KILLER my sweet :)

but you can ring my neck if you'd like.....or you can try :)
Umm I'm a lot stronger than you...remember?

Again, what's the "RED-ZONE"? I don't wanna go. Go alone. :p

[noppid]

The white zone is for loading and unloading only. If you gotta unload, please go to the white zone.

[Daniel]

Umm I'm a lot stronger than you...remember?

Again, what's the "RED-ZONE"? I don't wanna go. Go alone. :p

You and I wont be going to the red-zone babe :)

It's the place Mella was talking about where it's tollerated. I may be wrong but its just a designated part of Amsterdamn that tollerates it right Mella?

[Daniel]

Colleen are you the one that voted "Damn Burnouts" ?? :D

[YianG]

It is obvious that the so-called government is only interested to keep their citizens health enough to support the system so the people at top can feed from the "cattles". United States outlaw the use of weed and similar substances, but it doesn;t ban cigarettes, nor do they provide national health care. Thw way I see it is this thing kills your brain cell and it definitely have negative effects on your body. But so is driving and boarding an airplane, which aren't absolutely free but people do them anyway. Most people in the world don;t have any opinion on anything. It is a few people in power or with the tools to spread the prapaganda that do, and most poople's opinions are just a translation of that opinion re-expressed through their mouth while they think it is from their own.

Whenever I see the anti-drug commercial on TV, it makes me sick. Media trys to portray the drug-users as an "inferior" group. That's open discrimination. US used to ban alcohol, too.

[SEbasic]

I smoke a lot but don't think it should be legalised.

Holland has it right :)

[MELLA]

You and I wont be going to the red-zone babe :)

It's the place Mella was talking about where it's tollerated. I may be wrong but its just a designated part of Amsterdamn that tollerates it right Mella?

Red zone? You mean the red light district. Yes, that is where it's legal. They have special windows and rooms. But most larger towns have their own red light area, not just Amsterdam.

When I was younger and I came to visit my mum in Holland with my granny and aunt... It is customary to show tourists around the Red light district, but my mum obviously didn't want to take me as it wasnt suitable..sooooo she made me wait with my uncle and her reason was ''Its full of tramps, Mella'' But I thought she meant tramps as in homeless people. So for years and years I thought it was one big hangout for homeless junkies. :o

It's really cool there though and is actually my absolute fave part of A'dam. The bars there are the best. Just avoid making eye contact with the junkies injecting themselves on the bridges and the hardnut pimps and you'll have a grand old time.

[Daniel]

It is obvious that the so-called government is only interested to keep their citizens health enough to support the system so the people at top can feed from the "cattles". United States outlaw the use of weed and similar substances, but it doesn;t ban cigarettes, nor do they provide national health care. Thw way I see it is this thing kills your brain cell and it definitely have negative effects on your body. But so is driving and boarding an airplane, which aren't absolutely free but people do them anyway. Most people in the world don;t have any opinion on anything. It is a few people in power or with the tools to spread the prapaganda that do, and most poople's opinions are just a translation of that opinion re-expressed through their mouth while they think it is from their own.

I am not a big fan of using extertnal substances to enhance the mood, but maybe that's why i'm also not very happy most of the time. I say government should stay out of this business.

O....K.....Then :)

[Daniel]

I smoke a lot but don't think it should be legalised.

Holland has it right :)

They were going to decriminalize it here in Canada. you could get caught with up to an ounce of pot and only get 100$ - 400$ fine.

Im not sure what happened as to if they passed the new laws or not. I think they tried and had lots of trouble so they killed the idea.

[Colleen]

Colleen are you the one that voted "Damn Burnouts" ?? :D
Nope, I voted "I'd have it no other way!"

Isn't the RED ZONE where the prostitutes are? I don't see why WE'D be THERE. :eek:

[Daniel]

Red zone? You mean the red light district. Yes, that is where it's legal. They have special windows and rooms. But most larger towns have their own red light area, not just Amsterdam.

When I was younger and I came to visit my mum in Holland with my granny and aunt... It is customary to show tourists around the Red light district, but my mum obviously didn't want to take me as it wasnt suitable..sooooo she made me wait with my uncle and her reason was ''Its full of tramps, Mella'' But I thought she meant tramps as in homeless people. So for years and years I thought it was one big hangout for homeless junkies. :o

It's really cool there though and is actually my absolute fave part of A'dam. The bars there are the best. Just avoid making eye contact with the junkies injecting themselves on the bridges and the hardnut pimps and you'll have a grand old time.

MWahahahahahahaha!

[Daniel]

Nope, I voted "I'd have it no other way!"

Isn't the RED ZONE where the prostitutes are? I don't see why WE'D be THERE. :eek:

Exactly :) HENCE why I said we wouldnt go there :) Then again Mella says it's pretty cool so maybe we should check it out at least :)

[SEbasic]

They were going to decriminalize it here in Canada. you could get caught with up to an ounce of pot and only get 100$ - 400$ fine.

Im not sure what happened as to if they passed the new laws or not. I think they tried and had lots of trouble so they killed the idea.
Reply With QuoteThey ran a pilot program in Brixton (SE london) where you wouldn't get in trouble for having it...

I thnk it caused more problems than they anticipated though because people were just going down there to smoke... Then people that did other things came too, then so did crime - the list goes on.

If a government wants to test whether or not decriminalisation will work, do it country-wide... Not in a small area where all the low-lives of society will flock to (Brixton isn't exactly mayfair either).

[Daniel]

I think im going to roll me one right now :P

[SEbasic]

I just got in :D

[Daniel]

I just got in :D

What do you mean?

[SEbasic]

I don't smoke in the house...

[Colleen]

I just got in :D
Oliver, did you kill the frog? Thank God you got rid of it, now we just need Rob to take it off his face and we're cool. :D

[SEbasic]

Yeah, I like this avater for some reason :)

[Daniel]

I don't smoke in the house...

hehe I do :)

[Daniel]

87.50% in favor :D wooohooooooo!!!

[Colleen]

You gave the poll a closing date, Dan? :) Guess you're happy, most everyone agree's with you.

[Daniel]

You gave the poll a closing date, Dan? :) Guess you're happy, most everyone agree's with you.

Yep closes in a week.

Not happy nor sad :) It's interesting to see peoples opinions on this subject.

[Colleen]

Yep closes in a week.

Not happy nor sad :) It's interesting to see peoples opinions on this subject.
I've never tried weed so I can't say much. :( Now I feel SO left out. :)

[debunked]

I know a kid who smoked weed a lot and then ended up with a tumer in his head. After almost dying and having some brain damage he convinced his doctor to prescibe him pot "for the pain" which he knows isn't true, but in Oregon we have medicinal marijuana. I just don't understand the logic in that.

Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking, pot can be just as damaging to relationships and health. I have seen it with my own eyes. I also know many who started smoking pot at 14 or so and now 40 to 50 but still act like 15 and aren't able to take care of themselves without help, that is sad to me.

[Colleen]

I know a kid who smoked weed a lot and then ended up with a tumer in his head. After almost dying and having some brain damage he convinced his doctor to prescibe him pot "for the pain" which he knows isn't true, but in Oregon we have medicinal marijuana. I just don't understand the logic in that.

Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking, pot can be just as damaging to relationships and health. I have seen it with my own eyes. I also know many who started smoking pot at 14 or so and now 40 to 50 but still act like 15 and aren't able to take care of themselves without help, that is sad to me.
Thanks Debunked, this is exactly what people need to see, read and absorb. It scares me what can happen because of it. I've heard enough bad stories to know it's not worth it....

Dan... :(

[YoungCoder]

Weed is good! Solves alot of problems!

[YoungCoder]

I know a kid who smoked weed a lot and then ended up with a tumer in his head. After almost dying and having some brain damage he convinced his doctor to prescibe him pot "for the pain" which he knows isn't true, but in Oregon we have medicinal marijuana. I just don't understand the logic in that.

Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking, pot can be just as damaging to relationships and health. I have seen it with my own eyes. I also know many who started smoking pot at 14 or so and now 40 to 50 but still act like 15 and aren't able to take care of themselves without help, that is sad to me.

It is no worse than smoking, smoking is legal, it is people like you that get weed banned! ARGH *i really want to flame but am not in a position to, nor do i want to suffer penalties for doing so*

Why are we not allowed to make our own decisions? Isnt it a free world?

Things i want legalized:

All drugs,
suicide,
EVERYTHING!!!

Ok im an anarchist, oh well....*lights up a spliff*

[Colleen]

Weed is good! Solves alot of problems!This coming from the guy who killed 237 frogs in under a minute? You must have been high. If that's the problem it solves, how many frogs you can kill, then I don't want any. I am fine with my 22 frogs.... :D

[noppid]

This coming from the guy who killed 237 frogs in under a minute? You must have been high. If that's the problem it solves, how many frogs you can kill, then I don't want any. I am fine with my 22 frogs.... :D

Who went frog giggin'?

[Daniel]

I know a kid who smoked weed a lot and then ended up with a tumer in his head. After almost dying and having some brain damage he convinced his doctor to prescibe him pot "for the pain" which he knows isn't true, but in Oregon we have medicinal marijuana. I just don't understand the logic in that.

Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking, pot can be just as damaging to relationships and health. I have seen it with my own eyes. I also know many who started smoking pot at 14 or so and now 40 to 50 but still act like 15 and aren't able to take care of themselves without help, that is sad to me.

Yep I've seen the same kinda stuff... however it really depends on the individual :)

I work a good job in a management position 5 days a week for a large company.

I am self taught in everything I know from linux/unix Mac os7 - X/ Crappy Microsoft, perl programming, I run a web hosting company as my second job, Wrote all the hosting scripts myself so that I only use propriatry software. I own my house.

I would say responsibility and morals are things that are instilled by our parents. If the individual is an irresponsible lazy person well then yes weed will not be good for them and could most definitely effect their relationships. If however they are responsible good moraled persons then you never know they may end up genuine good people that are sucessful even though they smoked weed for years.

As far as the health issues go cigarettes are killers and cause tumers etc. I havent heard of too many tumer issues caused by weed unless if the individual smoked insane amounts of it every day of their life for 30 or 40 years (bob marley) anything in moderation if you ask me :)

And maturity? Ive seen 50 year olds that act like they are 15 and they have been stone cold sober no drinking or smoking their entire life :D

Thats just my 2 cents :D

[Daniel]

Weed does not solve your problems!

[Colleen]

Yep I've seen the same kinda stuff... however it really depends on the individual

I work a good job in a management position 5 days a week for a large company.

I am self taught in everything I know from linux/unix Mac os7 - X/ Crappy Microsoft, perl programming, I run a web hosting company as my second job, Wrote all the hosting scripts myself so that I only use propriatry software. I own my house.

I would say responsibility and morals are things that are instilled by our parents. If the individual is an irresponsible lazy person well then yes weed will not be good for them and could most definitely effect their relationships. If however they are responsible good moraled persons then you never know they may end up genuine good people that are sucessful even though they smoked weed for years.

As far as the health issues go cigarettes are killers and cause tumers etc. I havent heard of too many tumer issues caused by weed unless if the individual smoked insane amounts of it every day of their life for 30 or 40 years (bob marley) anything in moderation if you ask me :)

And maturity? Ive seen 50 year olds that act like they are 15 and they have been stone cold sober no drinking or smoking their entire life :D

Thats just my 2 cents :D

Ahhh..you're so sexy...I know I know..get a room... :rolleyes:

[YoungCoder]

Live life to the full, you gotta try everything. The old mature men that think weed should be illegal tend to be the loosers that got the crap beaten out of them at school! :)

[Blogmaster]

OK, I smoke it like 2 or 3 times a month in social settings. Don't think that does me harm. But I know people who make it a life style. Some can handle it, others are being affected by it. I really don't know to what extent people should be governed. I think no one should smoke anything period but then again I just put out a cigarette. Life is not that easy that simple solutions can come up and take care of the bigger problem which is that people feel a need to medicate themselves in the first place.


I know a kid who smoked weed a lot and then ended up with a tumer in his head. After almost dying and having some brain damage he convinced his doctor to prescibe him pot "for the pain" which he knows isn't true, but in Oregon we have medicinal marijuana. I just don't understand the logic in that.

Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking, pot can be just as damaging to relationships and health. I have seen it with my own eyes. I also know many who started smoking pot at 14 or so and now 40 to 50 but still act like 15 and aren't able to take care of themselves without help, that is sad to me.

[sarahk]

I think the whole debate over dope is a bit of a joke when you have legal party pills that are killing kids and P which is destroying plenty of lives - and damn quickly.

down here


we've legalised prostitution - and boy now we have bigger problems
lowered the drinking age - and now we have a more kids killing themselves on the roads etc in drinking related accidents

The old argument that legalising it will take control from the gangs is utter bull****. It just makes it harder for kids to decide whats going to be ok and what isn't - because the whole lot f**** with your head - it's just how much and how quickly.

Cheers! hic!

Sarah

[Blogmaster]

You know what, I agree with everything you've just said. I just didn't want to look like the asshole that spoils the party for others.

I think the whole debate over dope is a bit of a job when you have legal party pills that are killing kids and P which is destroying plenty of lives - and damn quickly.

down here
we've legalised prostitution - and boy now we have bigger problems
lowered the drinking age - and now we have a more kids killing themselves on the roads etc in drinking related accidents

The old argument that legalising it will take control from the gangs is utter bull****. It just makes it harder for kids to decide whats going to be ok and what isn't - because the whole lot f**** with your head - it's just how much and how quickly.

Cheers! hic!

Sarah

[sarahk]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, the Government want to reduce the age for consent to 12!

Provided your sexual partner is no more than 2 years older or younger than you.

Because 12 year olds never get manipulated by their peers or anything.

Reminds me of the old saying...

01001111011011000110010000100000011001010110111001101111011101010110
01110110100000100000011101000110111100100000011000100110110001100101
01100101011001000000110100001010010011110110110001100100001000000110
01010110111001101111011101010110011101101000001000000111010001101111
0010000001100010011101010111010001100011011010000110010101110010

too distasteful to have in uncoded english :o

http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php

[YoungCoder]

I AGREE that it is not good having drunk kids roaming the streets.
However I think that if they want to get wrecked then they can suffer the after-effects.

At the end of the day it comes down to responsibility...i think everything is ok in moderation. If kids havent been brought up to be responsible then they need professional help. (or to be shot LOL)

[sarahk]

Maybe but we had a kid doing 200ks round a corner sending a text message who killed himself and 4 mates, 1 lived to tell the story. Dunno if their parents feel quite the same.

[Crazy_Rob]

I don't know if I want it to be legal or not. I don't know enough about the effects it would have on society (can't get much worse :rolleyes: ).

Weed is bad for your lungs, BTW. If you want to do an experiment, take a hit and exhale onto a rope...and watch it turn BLACK!

There are more than 400 known chemicals in marijuana. A single joint contains four times as much cancer-causing tar as a filtered cigarette.

[noppid]

Weed is bad for your lungs, BTW. If you want to do an experiment, take a git and exhale onto a rope...and watch it turn BLACK!

There are more than 400 known chemicals in marijuana. A single joint contains four times as much cancer-causing tar as a filtered cigarette.


It's Reffer Madness! :eek:

[Crazy_Rob]

Reefer madness?

Is it?

[noppid]

Ok, so far a great Zappa quote and a classic goverment propaganda flick have failed to be recognized.

I'm either too old or there are no merican's here?

[Blogmaster]

Reefer madness?

Is it?
It's social madness, whether you take painkillers, valiums, heroin, whatever.

[Crazy_Rob]

Ok, so far a great Zappa quote and a classic goverment propaganda flick have failed to be recognized.

I'm either too old or there are no merican's here?

I was asking if you thought what I said was propaganda.

[YoungCoder]

Harmful toxins in marijuana smoke can be effectively avoided by a vaporization device, according to a new study by California NORML and MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) with support from a grant from the MPP (Marijuana Policy Project).

The study, conducted by Chemic Labs in Canton, Mass., tested vapors from cannabis heated in an herbal vaporizer known as the Volcano® ( manufactured by Storz & Bickel GmbH&Co. KG, Tuttlingen, Germany www.storz-bickel.com) and compared them to smoke produced by combusted marijuana. The Volcano® is designed to heat material to temperatures of 130° to 230° C (266° to 446° F) where medically active vapors are produced, but below the threshold of combustion where smoke is formed.

The vapors from the Volcano® were found to consist overwhelmingly of THC, the major active component in marijuana, whereas the combusted smoke contained over 100 other chemicals, including several polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), carcinogenic toxins that are common in tobacco smoke. The respiratory hazards of marijuana and tobacco smoke are due to toxic byproducts of combustion, not the active ingredients in the plant, known as cannabinoids.

The study suggests that medical marijuana patients can avoid the respiratory hazards of smoking by using a vaporizer. In its 1999 report on medical marijuana, the Institute of Medicine recommended against long-term use of smoked marijuana because of the health risks of smoking. However, the IOM failed to take account of vaporizers.

Previous studies have found that vaporizers can reduce harmful toxins in cannabis smoke. However this is the first study to analyze the gas phase of the vapor for a wide range of toxins. A previous NORML/MAPS study conducted by Chemic Labs found that a vaporizer known as the M-1 Volatizer® (www.volatizer.com) completely eliminated three specific toxins (naphthalene, benzene and toluene) in. the solid phase of the vapor (D. Gieringer, "Cannabis Vaporization: A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction," Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics Vol. 1#3-4: 153-70 (2001); www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy1.html).

The new study used a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer (GCMS) to examine the gas components of the vapor. .The analysis showed that the Volcano® vapor was remarkably clean, consisting 95% of THC with traces of cannabinol (CBN), another cannabinoid. The remaining 5% consisted of small amounts of three other components: one suspected cannabinoid relative, one suspected PAH, and caryophyllene, a fragrant oil in cannabis and other plants. In contrast over 111 different components appeared in the gas of the combusted smoke, including a half dozen known PAHs. Non-cannabinoids accounted for as much as 88% of the total gas content of the smoke.

The study used standard NIDA cannabis with 4% THC content. A quantitative analysis found that the Volcano® delivered 46% of the THC into vapor following three 45-second exposures of the sample to the heat. This compares favorably with the typical efficiency of marijuana cigarettes as observed in other studies, which depending on conditions can fall below 25% due to loss of THC in sidestream smoke. An important feature of the Volcano® is that it uses a balloon to capture the vapor, thereby avoiding leakage to the air. It is possible that higher THC efficiencies could have been reached with the Volcano® by stirring the sample around and exposing it to more heat.

The combusted sample achieved a relatively high THC efficiency of 78% upon complete combustion. The high efficiency seems due to the fact that the sample was completely consumed by combustion, and that smoke leakage was effectively prevented by the laboratory setup. Similar conditions do not obtain under normal circumstances when a marijuana cigarette is smoked and much of the THC is lost to the air or left in the unburned "roach."

Two other cannabinoids , cannabidiol (CBD) and cannabinol (CBN), were detected in the NIDA cannabis in trace amounts of 0.1%. Both the Volcano® and combustion delivered an apparent increase in CBD and CBN, but the variance of the data was too high to reach statistically significant conclusions.

Sponsors believe that the study results lend support for wider use of vaporizers by medical marijuana patients and researchers. At present, the only FDA-approved method for administering marijuana to human research subjects is via smoking NIDA cigarettes. NORML and MAPS are supporting efforts to have vaporizers approved by the FDA. As a first step in this effort, Dr. Donald Abrams of the University of California, San Francisco, has submitted a grant proposal to the California Center for Medical Cannabis Research in San Diego to test the Volcano® in human subjects. If the protocol is funded and the Volcano® approved by the FDA for human research, it will be the first human study using a vaporizer. If the FDA requests additional laboratory data about the Volcano@, additional funding may be necessary.


For more information , see

www.maps.org/mmj/vaporizer.html
www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizers.html

There is a god ;)

[ferret77]

Either a person has a addictive personality or they don't

If they have an addictive personality, then they will be screwed up any addictive substance be it legal or not.

The country is full of normal successful people that on the weekend once in awhile smoke pot, take Extasy, snort coke etc. The president has gotten high, along with the majority of adult americans at least once.

If someone can't take care of themselves because they smoke pot then most likely that person is a sad sack anyway.

It costs around $30,000 a year to house someone in prison and there are thousands of pot and other drug offenders in prison. If you think that its worth it to spend $30,000 a year of our tax moeny to keep some stoner off the street then you are retarded.

[Crazy_Rob]

I agree it should be decriminalized. It should be treated like alcohol I guess.

I would just be worried about the effect that would have on kids.

[sarahk]

Either a person has a addictive personality or they don'tso before you can buy you have to have a personality test, be told if you are at risk and counselled. I can just see it!

[sarahk]

Ok im an anarchist
Aren't you obliged to be...?

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[noppid]

I would just be worried about the effect that would have on kids.

That's the parents problem. If they do their job, it's a non issue. PEROID

kids can easily kill themsleves with many things, but with proper supervision they don't.

What bleeding heart bullshit. Mention kids and it's a social issue?

How about you are a losuy parent and don't blame other people instead?

People play politically correct at the expense of common sense. I'm sorry, I refuse to act dumb just to go along with the crowd.

P.S. You and them are used as general terms. It don't mean Rob.

[sarahk]

How about you are a lousy parent and don't blame other people instead?Lets just hope it's that simple! I'll come back to you in 10 years!

[noppid]

Lets just hope it's that simple! I'll come back to you in 10 years!

I aint scared. I'm there doing my job.

[debunked]

Boy, I am pleasently surprised at the positive and constructive responses I received from my post. Usually if I say anything I just get hammered. I personally never smoked it and don't want to but I did drink a bit when I was 17 and 18 and I am glad it no longer has any power over me.

Rob, (I think it was rob) the study that you posted, you need to understand that if a promoter of a product does the study it is essentially useless. That is just like a marketing company saying the study they did on their product holds much value. You need to back that study up with 1 or 2 3rd party study to give it ligitimacy.

Great thread people, even though I would prefer no one every smoked it, you all have been putting in valid points and have made the thread interesting without anyone being attacked. (I suppose I should see if I have any rep left now. LOL)

[Crazy_Rob]

That's the parents problem. If they do their job, it's a non issue. PEROID

kids can easily kill themsleves with many things, but with proper supervision they don't.

What bleeding heart bullshit. Mention kids and it's a social issue?


Of course it's parents fault! That doesn't mean it's not a problem though.

But I don't see weed being legalized any time soon.

Someone sent this to me last night...look at this BULLSCHMIDT!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-1528

http://action.downsizedc.org/background.php?cid=28

debunked, I think your referring to what Young Coder posted?

[rhinoplayer]

Legalize it - I want my taxes reduced by all that tax revenue the govt would waste!

[ferret77]

so before you can buy you have to have a personality test, be told if you are at risk and counselled. I can just see it!

No, I am saying the it doesn't matter legal or illegal the same people will have problems with substances.

So its stupid to lock up or arrest non-addictive people when they smoke, snort or whatever once in awhile.

Its stupid to create such a profitable black market, and spend millions locking up citizens becasue they are addicts.

Honestly screw the children, people act like kids are more important then people. Adults shouldn't be limited in their freedoms because parents are too lazy to raise and supervise their kids.

[Crazy_Rob]

YEAH!

fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids. fuck the kids! fuck the kids! fuck the kids!

[Solicitors Mortgages]

ok...break it up...the police have found your hideout !!
http://serv1.uploadengine.com/1117897468.jpg

[minstrel]

Cigarettes are the KILLER my sweet
If you believe smoking weed isn't carcinogenic or doesn't damage the lungs in other ways, some more serious than tobacco smoke, you're dreaming... or you've been smoking way too much of it.

What about the fact that regular to heavy use suppresses testosterone production? Keep it up and in about 5 more years you'll have man-boobs and testicles like raisins... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[noppid]

YEAH!

fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck yeah, yeah. fuck da kids, fuck da kids, fuck da kids. fuck the kids! fuck the kids! fuck the kids!


You are missing the point. If my kids saw you smoking pot or dead in an ally from shooting up, I would not worry one bit. The goverment hype that says this will make them a junkie too is just pure bullshit. I know that my kids would feel sad for the person and move on securely that I told them the truth.

Anyone who says that such events will impact their kids negetively is a lousy parent that can't do their job.

This is NOT about kids, this is the fear of parents that can't or won't parent and their fear of the unknown tring to make their lack of action raising their kids your and my problem.

Some war on drugs we have. When the Mayor of Washington DC was found to be a crack head, no laws were changed to prevent him havin an office again and he was re-elected. Some war on drugs. HUH?

Don't believe the hype.

[Crazy_Rob]

You are missing the point. If my kids saw you smoking pot or dead in an ally from shooting up, I would not worry one bit. The goverment hype that says this will make them a junkie too is just pure bullshit. I know that my kids would feel sad for the person and move on securely that I told them the truth.....

Why is this post directed at me?

I'm pretty much with you on this, man.

My post was lyrics from a song.

[minstrel]

I agree it should be decriminalized. It should be treated like alcohol I guess.

I would just be worried about the effect that would have on kids.
I think this is likely the best compromise.

Pot is NOT without dangers. Then again, neither is alcohol.

Decriminalization doesn't mean legalization but it can mean control and quality control -- one of the problems with the current situation is that there is no control over what is sold as weed and what contaminants have been added to it (I'm assuming most teens at least don't have the option of growing their own).

I do think if you are going to make the decision to smoke (or to drink, for that matter) it should at least be an INFORMED decision -- don't kid yourself into thinking it's "natural" (so is opium, so is poison ivy, so are several poisonous plants, so are a lot of things that aren't very good for you) or "safe".

I also do think there is something wrong with a society where teens cannot obtain cigarettes or alcohol until age 19 (the law in Ontario) but they can buy pot in almost any school yard at recess from about grade 5 or 6 on...

Apart from the obvious risks to lungs and circulatory system (shared with tobacco), in the case of pot you also need to worry about alterations in neurotransmitters and hormones.

[noppid]

Why is this post directed at me?

I'm pretty much with you on this, man.

My post was lyrics from a song.

Right over my head! I thought you were taking the opposite stance. :o

But I'm not addressing you per se. I'm addressing those that claim to want things illegal to "protect" the kids. That is already their job, if they need a law to do it, they have already failed.

M:
Regarding hormones, that's pure bullshit and you should know it. Feed your daughter meat and then when she's 9 with tits talk to me. I can dig out old year books that it would be almost inpossible to find a normal girl with tits.

These days you can see tits on an anorexic 75 LB 8 year old female and it was not pot they got the extra hormones from my friend. :/

The goverment, now pronounced "corporations", make the rules and the lies. Time to stop reading the content and start reading between the lines. Goverment and the corps do not tell the truth, that is a fact in life.

Their truth is to support profit margins, not safety. Don't be fooled!

[ferret77]

Ministral,

I don't think anyone is saying drugs are healthy or harmless, but its supposed to be free country.

We have like the highest incarerated rate in the world

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1352643.htm

Do you see the irony there, free country?, we love freedom?

But we lock up more citizens then anyone else in the world.

[minstrel]

M: Regarding hormones, that's pure bullshit and you should know it. Feed your daughter meat and then when she's 9 with tits talk to me. I can dig out old year books that it would be almost inpossible to find a normal girl with tits.

These days you can see tits on an anorexic 75 LB 8 year old female and it was not pot they got the extra hormones from my friend. :/

I'm afraid it isn't nonsense, noppid.

But:

1. I didn't say it pot was injecting extra hormones into the system -- I said it can suppress hormone production, specifically testosterone production in males -- reduce testosterone levels sufficiently and you will see so-called male "feminization", as the levels of estrogens rise relative to the levels of androgens in the body.

2. I wasn't talking about daughters specifically, nor am I suggesting that pot is the only source of toxins in this world -- far from it.

I'm not arguing for an agressive crimininalization policy regarding pot. I'm arguing for INFORMED DECISION-MAKING, and that requires REAL and ACCURATE information, not propoganda on one side or the other.

[noppid]

Ministral,

I don't think anyone is saying drugs are healthy or harmless, but its supposed to be free country.

We have like the highest incarerated rate in the world

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1352643.htm

Do you see the irony there, free country?, we love freedom?

But we lock up more citizens then anyone else in the world.

Yep, get busted with pot and got to jail.

Wal-Mart comes to town and puts 20 small businesses out of businesses and gets a goverment tax incentive in the form of cash to do it.

If you can't see the irony of that, it's gonna get worse. The attacks on society by coporations are masked by telling you that someone else is having more fun then you.

If someone took the time to realize the corps and goverment are the one's having more fun then you and using your tax dollars to do it, maybe it would hit home?

But it won't! Americans want to party, not work and even with free tax dollars , building a business looks like work, not fun.

They got you right where they want you!

[minstrel]

I don't think anyone is saying drugs are healthy or harmless, but its supposed to be free country.

We have like the highest incarerated rate in the world

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitem...04/s1352643.htm

Do you see the irony there, free country?, we love freedom?

But we lock up more citizens then anyone else in the world.
You've misread me, ferret. I am not proposing jailing people for smoking pot any more than jailing people for smoking cigarettes or drinking beer.

I agree it should be decriminalized. It should be treated like alcohol I guess.
I think this is likely the best compromise.

I'm not arguing for an agressive crimininalization policy regarding pot. I'm arguing for INFORMED DECISION-MAKING, and that requires REAL and ACCURATE information, not propoganda on one side or the other.

[ferret77]

Relax ministral

I was just taking some facts for the lock up the darkies crowd.

[noppid]

I'm not arguing for an agressive crimininalization policy regarding pot. I'm arguing for INFORMED DECISION-MAKING, and that requires REAL and ACCURATE information, not propoganda on one side or the other.


They won't disclose what's in food at the live animal level or disclose ALL the side affects or chemicals of a drug that is new.

But yet, pot should be illegal bacause they know and disclose everything about it?

Can't you see, the same people that won't do full disclosure on their own products, fabricate a whole story about pot and it's chemical compound?

If they can do it for pot, they should do it for food and drugs. PERIOD

But that won't happen, playing the game on both sides with disclosure would put them out of business.

Don't ever expect full disclosure on something the corps can profit on, the truth would put them out of business.

But do realize the load of bullshit they are giving you when they can do full disclosure on something that is taking money out of their pockets and they want you to stay away from it.

Wake up world!

[minstrel]

Relax ministral

I was just taking some facts for the lock up the darkies crowd.
Fine with me... but those comments were addressed to ma and I'd rather you didn't misquote me or imply that your comments are in response to something I purportedly said but in reality didn't say at all.

[Daniel]

Relax ministral

I was just taking some facts for the lock up the darkies crowd.

Stearoids in the meat man!!!!!

I think pot is way less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes !!!

Pot doesnt turn your world into a spinning mess like alcohol does !

Alcohol should be the illegal substance if you ask me.

Then again I dont drink lol

[noppid]

Stearoids in the meat man!!!!!

I think pot is way less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes !!!

Pot doesnt turn your world into a spinning mess like alcohol does !

Alcohol should be the illegal substance if you ask me.

Then again I dont drink lol

One is man made, the other natural.

This is a no brainer IMO. PERIOD!

Everybody whines, do it for my kids, protect my kids. Wake up call folks, they have no clue you exist nor give a rats ass about your kids. They check the numbers when making decisions. Again, when they do it, it's not about you or your beloved child. It's about money.

[Daniel]

One is man made, the other natural.

This is a no brainer IMO. PERIOD!

Everybody whines, do it for my kids, protect my kids. Wake up call folks, they have no clue you exist nor give a rats ass about your kids. They check the numbers when making decisions. Again, when they do it, it's not about you or your beloved child. It's about money.

I agree 100% :D

[minstrel]

They won't disclose what's in food at the live animal level or disclose ALL the side affects or chemicals of a drug that is new.

But yet, pot should be illegal bacause they know and disclose everything about it?

Can't you see, the same people that won't do full disclosure on their own products, fabricate a whole story about pot and it's chemical compound?

If they can do it for pot, they should do it for food and drugs. PERIOD

But that won't happen, playing the game on both sides with disclosure would put them out of business.

Don't ever expect full disclosure on something the corps can profit on, the truth would put them out of business.

But do realize the load of bullshit they are giving you when they can do full disclosure on something that is taking money out of their pockets and they want you to stay away from it.

Wake up world!
noppid, are you actually READING what I'm posting? :confused:

You are posting as if we are on opposite sides of some debate -- I don't think we are.

I am NOT arguing that pot-smokers should be jailed. I am NOT arguing that we should unquestioningly accept what the White House or the DEA says about pot or anything else. I am NOT arguing for taking away freedoms, including but not limited to freedom of choice.

What I am saying is that I don't believe pro-marijuana propaganda is any better or any more helpful to informed choice than anti-marijuana propaganda.

[minstrel]

One is man made, the other natural.
1. what is non-natural about meat? or tobacco? or alcohol? all occur naturally and are certainly no less natural than pot.

2. what makes you think "natural" means safe or healthy? see above re: other "natural" but dangerous substances

[noppid]

noppid, are you actually READING what I'm posting? :confused:

You are posting as if we are on opposite sides of some debate -- I don't think we are.

I am NOT arguing that pot-smokers should be jailed. I am NOT arguing that we should unquestioningly accept what the White House or the DEA says about pot or anything else. I am NOT arguing for taking away freedoms, including but not limited to freedom of choice.

What I am saying is that I don't believe pro-marijuana propaganda is any better or any more helpful to informed choice than anti-marijuana propaganda.

No sir, I'm following up on my own tangent. Some of your statements are bringing out my strong opinions and I'm ranting. I'm not necessarily debating.

Sorry about that.

[dcristo]

What's your opinion? Should Maryjane be legal?

Very big NO from personal experience and from what Ive seen happen to mates. Theres this stigma that because gear is natural it has no real huge negative effects. This is total bollocks. I reckon its one of the hardest drugs, definately worse then E. Research is showing an alarming rate of depression in heavy users of gear which is pretty frightening. If a certain illicit drug should get regulated I reckon it should be E.

[MELLA]

Come on guys, let's all go get high..

[dcristo]

Come on guys, let's all go get high..

LOL :D

This drug topic is reminding me of Human Traffic which was on pay tv just the other day. What a whacked out movie.

[Crazy_Rob]

This is total bollocks. I reckon its one of the hardest drugs, definately worse then E. Research is showing an alarming rate of depression in heavy users of gear which is pretty frightening. If a certain illicit drug should get regulated I reckon it should be E.

Please tell me you're joking. :confused:

If not, I think you need to be "evaluated".
;)

[dcristo]

Please tell me you're joking. :confused:

If not, I think you need to be "evaluated".
;)

Im being serious.

How do you disagree?

[Crazy_Rob]

You think weed is worse than ecstacy?

[dcristo]

You think weed is worse than ecstacy?

Very much so. In a number of ways.

[Crazy_Rob]

You're fucked!

[dcristo]

You're fucked!

I gather you've neither used one or the other regularly?

[Crazy_Rob]

Nope, I've used 'em both. Not regularly. Maybe that's your problem.

[MELLA]

I've done E many times. I've also smoked weed many times.

I can't see how in any way shape or form weed is worse than E.

It only takes a dodgy pill and you're a goner.

[dcristo]

Nope, I've used 'em both. Not regularly. Maybe that's your problem.

Was my problem. I'll be the first to admit that. If it werent for all the shit in E's (hence my point of regulating it) then they would be the shit!

Those who think dope is harmless are either very light users or very mis-informed.

[noppid]

You think weed is worse than ecstacy?

I've seen people smoke pot and pass out. More pot then they'd ever need and plenty left at the time they passed out. They sleep and wake up hungry. A very peaceful sleep as well.

I'm have seen people on exasty pass out. It is very violent. They have convulsions. They foam at the mouth. They lose their faculties. This is not peaceful and is god damn scary. They were out of X, they only took what some termed a little. But had there been more, they'd have taken it and maybe died.

Not the same in any way shape or form.

[Crazy_Rob]

http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/brainscan1.gif

http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/brainscan2.gif

These brain scans show the amount of serotonin activity over a 40-minute period in a non-MDMA user (top) and an MDMA user (bottom). Dark areas in the MDMA user's brain show damage due to chronic MDMA use.

[Crazy_Rob]

Those who think dope is harmless are either very light users or very mis-informed.


If you ever have this conversation again, just leave it at that and don't even bring up E.

[dcristo]

I'm have seen people on exasty pass out. It is very violent. They have convulsions. They foam at the mouth.

They didnt drop E then.

[noppid]

They didnt drop E then.

OK, tell the witnesses of those that have seen an X death. Here in Florida is kills by dehydration my friend.

See, you don't know everything yet and neither do I. But it's best to keep an open mind. There's alot to see yet. ;)

[Crazy_Rob]

Here in Florida is kills by dehydration my friend.

It can also lead to acute water intoxication when people drink too much water.

[dcristo]

Actually these symptons Im all too familair with. If your going to try something it's a pretty good idea to do some research prior to using it. Any regular party-goer and E user knows you should always keep up your fluid levels when out and not mix it with any alcohol.

[ferret77]

Most of the ecstasy overdoses are usually caused by the stuff they cut ecstasy with.

2cb, speed , synthetic heroin etc

That and dehydration.

(sidenote: there is something appealing about raver girls who have been up on E for awhile, sweaty, makeup kind of running ...)

[noppid]

It can also lead to acute water intoxication when people drink too much water.


Yeah, but the most common side affect to the newb that isn't hanging with experienced trippers that will make them drink water is it makes them too stupid to do the main thing we need to live, drink water.

Cocain, same thing. Given a choice of food or coke, junkies take the coke.

Give a person a hit of a joint, and they want the name of the nearest resturant. :)

[Daniel]

Yeah, but the most common side affect to the newb that isn't hanging with experienced trippers that will make them drink water is it makes them too stupid to do the main thing we need to live, drink water.

Cocain, same thing. Given a choice of food or coke, junkies take the coke.

Give a person a hit of a joint, and they want the name of the nearest resturant. :)

This thread turned out great im REALLY enjoying listening to all of you :D:D

[Crazy_Rob]

E. really shouldn't be used more than a couple of times.

(even that might be harmful)

[noppid]

E. really shouldn't be used more than a couple of times.

(even that might be harmful)

Don't go soft on me now! :D

I like the topic of how X and crank can make a nice girl a whore. What's up with that? I've seen it. It's kinda sad in the end really.

[dcristo]

Sex and E is like OMG!

Sex on gear just doesnt happen.

Period.

Noppid, whats with using E and tripping in the same sentence?

[minstrel]

This thread turned out great im REALLY enjoying listening to all of you

The REAL reason Daniel started this thread:

Breaking News! (http://daniel.spaniel.wasarrested.com/S-Ontario/Ottawa/crack)

[Crazy_Rob]

Better click the real link! (http://minstrel.minnie.wasarrested.com/S-Ontario/Ottawa/crack)

[minstrel]

Pffttt... that doesn't look like me at all, CR... photos don't lie...

It's a perfect shot of Daniel, though :D

[Crazy_Rob]

Same beard!

[Daniel]

The REAL reason Daniel started this thread:

Breaking News! (http://daniel.spaniel.wasarrested.com/S-Ontario/Ottawa/crack)

ummm errrrrrr :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Pffttt... that doesn't look like me at all, CR... photos don't lie...

It's a perfect shot of Daniel, though :D

Perfect shot of me eh minstrel. Hmmmmmm considering your line of business I am sure you are aware that putting others down is simply a way of making yourself feel better.

What ever floats your boat big guy :)

[minstrel]

ummm errrrrrr
See? He's even lost the capacity for intelligible speech... :eek:

I am sure you are aware that putting others down is simply a way of making yourself feel better.
Hmmm... and evidently his sense of humor... :confused:

[noppid]

The REAL reason Daniel started this thread:

Breaking News! (http://daniel.spaniel.wasarrested.com/S-Ontario/Ottawa/crack)


Now that was funny! Mom's house! ROTFLMAO!

I heard the cop only has nine pairs of pants. What's up with that? Don't they pay cops in Canadia?

[minstrel]

Don't they pay cops in Canada?
They are paid in clothing chits according to the number of busts they make.

Jim Bob isn't the sharpest cop on the beat, evidently.

[noppid]

They are paid in clothing chits according to the number of busts they make.

Jim Bob isn't the sharpest cop on the beat, evidently.

I take it from your spell checking I'm not allowed to make fun of Canadia? :D

I am concerned about Jim Bob Though. There seems to be an Identity crisis. :confused:

[minstrel]

I'm worried too, noppid... I mean, the guy definitely needs more pants :eek:

[Daniel]

I'm worried too, noppid... I mean, the guy definitely needs more pants :eek:

You da man!!

[noppid]

You da man!!

He really really is. I think we have a poll to prove it!

[Daniel]

He really really is. I think we have a poll to prove it!

Minstrel.....I think you have an admirer :D:D

[noppid]

Minstrel.....I think you have an admirer :D:D

Hey wait a minute! You sucked up first! LMAO!

[Daniel]

Hey wait a minute! You sucked up first! LMAO!

Sarcasm is very hard to sense in written form :) I was not sucking up :D

[Daniel]

Why would one want to suck up to minnie :confused: or ANYONE for that matter :D:D

[Colleen]

Hey wait a minute! You sucked up first! LMAO!So is this follow the leader? :)

Minstrel is the man on what terms?

[Daniel]

So is this follow the leader? :)

Minstrel is the man on what terms?

babe you can suck on.....ummm I mean up to me ANYTIME :cool:

[noppid]

So is this follow the leader? :)



Sure, I'll follow you. :)

[Colleen]

babe you can suck on.....ummm I mean up to me ANYTIME :cool:
Is that an invitation?

noppid, I'm not sure you wanna follow me, who knows where I might lead you! :eek: :confused: Especially considering Daniel's offer above...

[noppid]

Is that an invitation?

noppid, I'm not sure you wanna follow me, who knows where I might lead you! :eek: :confused: Especially considering Daniel's offer above...

I'll leave that between you and him! :eek:

[Colleen]

I'll leave that between you and him! :eek:
May the force be with you, noppid. :D

[Daniel]

I'll leave that between you and him! :eek:

Good answer :) :D

[noppid]

May the force be with you, noppid. :D

I got yoda in my corner. ;)

[mkeen]

I would rather walk down a dark ally past a bunch of stoners than a bunch of drunks, if someone smokes weed and gets ill, who cares? its self inflicted, you dont find many stoners getting violent for no reason.

I feel drinking is much worse than getting stoned.

[Daniel]

I would rather walk down a dark ally past a bunch of stoners than a bunch of drunks, if someone smokes weed and gets ill, who cares? its self inflicted, you dont find many stoners getting violent for no reason.

I feel drinking is much worse than getting stoned.

AMEN to that !!!

[Colleen]

The only good thing to come from weed....

It's Like, I don't care about nothin man,
roll another blunt, Yea (ohh ohh ohh),

La da da da da da La, Da Daaa,
La da da da, La da da da, La da da daaa

I was gonna clean my room until I got high
I gonna get up and find the broom but then I got high
my room is still messed up and I know why (why man?) yea heyy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I was gonna go to class before I got high
I coulda cheated and I coulda passed but I got high
(La da da da da da da da da)
I am taking it next semester and I know why, (why man?) yea heyy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I was gonna go to work but then I got high
I just got a new promotion but I got high
now I'm selling dope and I know why (why man?) yea heayy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I was gonna go to court before I got high
I was gonna pay my child support but then I got high
they took my whole paycheck and I know why (why man?) yea heayy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I wasn't gonna run from the cops but I was high
I was gonna pull right over and stop but I was high
(La da da da da da da da da)
Now I am a paraplegic and i know why (why man?) yea heayy,
- because I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I was gonna pay my car note until I got high
I was gonna gamble on the boat but then I got high
now the tow truck is pulling away and I know why (why man?) yea heyy,
- because I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I was gonna make love to you but then I got high
I was gonna eat yo pussy too but then I got high
now I'm jacking off and I know why, yea heyy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I messed up my entire life because I got high
I lost my kids and wife because I got high
now I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and I know why (why man?) yea heyy,
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

(La da da da da da da da da)

I'm gonna stop singing this song because I'm high
I'm singing this whole thing wrong because I'm high
and if I dont sell one copy I know why (why man?) yea heyy,
- cause I'm high [repeat 3X]

La da da da da da, La da da da, Shoop shooby doo wop.


hehehe

[DarrenC]

I can't believe I read this thread all the way through.. I must be on something to even think about doing something so stupid.

[noppid]

I can't believe I read this thread all the way through.. I must be on something to even think about doing something so stupid.

I wish I had a nickle for every thread that comment has been made in!

[Colleen]

I can't believe I read this thread all the way through.. I must be on something to even think about doing something so stupid.
Geee....hint much Darren?! :D :rolleyes: :eek:

[DarrenC]

Nah I'm a good lad me, don't touch drugs apart from coffee and coca cola! I think legalising cannabis in the UK though is a complete joke, you either make all drugs socially acceptable (and legal) or none.

[Will.Spencer]

My own War on Drugs (http://www.fortliberty.org/american-politics/war-on-drugs.shtml) page says this:

The American government exists at the consent of the governed. Americans are the beneficiaries of a long liberal democratic tradition which places individual liberty at the height of our value system. This liberty has given us peace and prosperity at levels which were completely unknown to our ancestors. The War on Drugs is a direct threat to that long and illustrious legacy.

The War on Drugs envisions individual Americans as government property. By self-medicating, American citizens are seen as damaging that government property.

The United States government then spends billions of taxpayer dollars per year to protect that government property from the American citizenry.

I am not government property and I object to being taxed to pay for a government program which treats me as if I were.

[sarahk]

I am not government property and I object to being taxed to pay for a government program which treats me as if I were.Too funny. That kind of me-centric stuff turns me off because if you extrapolate it out you end up in a much worse situation. You only have to review the social history of the last 200 years to see that with the bad controls have come very good things too and it's about finding the right balance not outright rejection.

Sarah

[Will.Spencer]

Over the course of the last 200 years, the world worked out this conflict of "me-centric" vs. "state-centric" to a final conclusion.

Adam Smith won; Karl Marx lost.

Smith brought prosperity; Marx brought poverty.

Smith brought a high standard of living; Marx brought the dark ages into modern times.

Smith brought civil rights; Marx brought civil obligations.

Even the Russians have given up and moved to a "me centric" model.

The war is over.

Sorry. :)

[Daniel]

After 145 posts we are still 55% in favor :D TAKE THAT all you non believers!!

:D:D:D

[Colleen]

After 145 posts we are still 55% in favor :DThe force is with you too, Daniel. :)

[Daniel]

The force is with you too, Daniel. :)

You know it sweet heart :) now come over here and let me show you my lightsaber :) :p

[Colleen]

You know it sweet heart :) now come over here and let me show you my lightsaber :) :p
My spaceship is on it's last legs, I will be there in 7 days, k?! :D cough*you geek*cough

[Daniel]

My spaceship is on it's last legs, I will be there in 7 days, k?! :D cough*you geek*cough

7 days for me to go 400 km jesus the ship really SUCKS !!!!

[DarrenC]

Sorry to change the subject, but Daniel, can you tell me how the hell you cope with Lady78?

[Daniel]

Sorry to change the subject, but Daniel, can you tell me how the hell you cope with Lady78?

Cope?

I dont have to cope :) Lady78 is the most incredible, amazing, beautiful, sexy woman I have ever known :) She has touched my heart in a way like no other.

Oh and her ass is PURRRRFECT :D

I love you C
X0x7+

[Colleen]

7 days for me to go 400 km jesus the ship really SUCKS !!!!
huh!? :confused: lol....aww you're so cute, you'd drive all that way, for me? :)

Sorry to change the subject, but Daniel, can you tell me how the hell you cope with Lady78?
Harhar! Sooooooooooooo funny! He copes cause he likes being fed chocolate and other things. Plus he's afraid of me. I have my clutches in him. :) :rolleyes:

Cope?

I dont have to cope Lady78 is the most incredible, amazing, beautiful, sexy woman I have ever known She has touched my heart in a way like no other.

Oh and her ass is PURRRRFECT

I love you C
X0x7+
And really, I don't pay him to say that... see reason above why he says that.

I love you too D.

[DarrenC]

nice one mate :)

.. but you can PM me your proper answer! lol :D (jokin!)

[Colleen]

nice one mate

.. but you can PM me your proper answer! lol (jokin!)and then copy and paste it to me, ok!? Or else! :rolleyes: :confused: :D

Wait...do you think Daniel just wants something??? grrrrrrrr....hehe.

[Daniel]

huh!? lol....aww you're so cute, you'd drive all that way, for me?



Yes I WILL my love :)


Harhar! Sooooooooooooo funny! He copes cause he likes being fed chocolate and other things. Plus he's afraid of me. I have my clutches in him.

And believe me when I tell you those clutches are in deep !!!

nice one mate

.. but you can PM me your proper answer! lol :D (jokin!)

That was 100% my real and honest answer :)

[DarrenC]

And believe me when I tell you those clutches are in deep !!!

I believe ye! My girlfriend always has her clutches on my credit card! :(

[Daniel]

I believe ye! My girlfriend always has her clutches on my credit card! :(

LOL yeah im hoping C doesnt do that to me :eek:

[Colleen]

Yes I WILL my love



And believe me when I tell you those clutches are in deep !!!



That was 100% my real and honest answer

Yep, I got you back didn't I?!?! And if you leave, I shall hunt you down and destroy your light saber! :mad: :rolleyes: :) :D

[Daniel]

Yep, I got you back didn't I?!?! And if you leave, I shall hunt you down and destroy your light saber!

:eek: :eek: DON'T EVEN JOKE ABOUT THAT!!!! :eek: :eek: Are you trying to scare me off????

[Colleen]

LOL yeah im hoping C doesnt do that to me :eek:
You know me better than that dear. I make money but don't spend it, you'll have to do that part. :) I am happy with the bare minimum. As long as I have you, I am happy. Always, ok? :o

[Colleen]

:eek: DON'T EVEN JOKE ABOUT THAT!!!! :eek: :eek: Are you trying to scare me off????
Ummm...ohhhh......hmmmmmmmmmm,, well I can make up for it making it feel better? :confused:

[DarrenC]

lmao @ destroy your light saber.. and cos you made me laugh Ive just spit mineral water on me new keyboard :(

Daniel.. Good luck lol

[Daniel]

You know me better than that dear. I make money but don't spend it, you'll have to do that part. :) I am happy with the bare minimum. As long as I have you, I am happy. Always, ok?

I know sweetie pie :) :)

Ummm...ohhhh......hmmmmmmmmmm,, well I can make up for it making it feel better?

If its DESTROYED !!!! there is no making it better !!! :eek:

[Colleen]

lmao @ destroy your light saber.. and cos you made me laugh Ive just spit mineral water on me new keyboard :(

Daniel.. Good luck lol
Lol..why good luck :confused: I make Daniel feel good in all the right ways.. :eek:

Yepyep. :)

[Daniel]

lmao @ destroy your light saber.. and cos you made me laugh Ive just spit mineral water on me new keyboard :(

Daniel.. Good luck lol

Yeah ill NEED it :D

[DarrenC]

.. Well as long as you don't play with his light saber in public, unlike Ninetendo it appears from the threads :o

[Colleen]

.. Well as long as you don't play with his light saber in public, unlike Ninetendo it appears from the threads :oWhat?! come again!? Nintendo plays with his light saber in public? I missed that thread.

[Will.Spencer]

After 145 posts we are still 55% in favor :D TAKE THAT all you non believers!!

Like dude, I was gonna vote, but like, dude. You know what I mean?

[Daniel]

Like dude, I was gonna vote, but like, dude. You know what I mean?

Good one Will :)

[Colleen]

Good one Will :)The only thing I wanna smoke is your light saber, Daniel. :cool:

[Daniel]

The only thing I wanna smoke is your light saber, Daniel. :cool:

;) :cool: :D

[noppid]

The only thing I wanna smoke is your light saber, Daniel. :cool:

What's in a name, right?

[Daniel]

What's in a name, right?

huh? :confused:

[noppid]

huh? :confused:


Dude, no body here posts like you. You can't change you name and be a new person.

Beside, you're fucking up AC's post count. :mad:

[Daniel]

Dude, no body here posts like you. You can't change you name and be a new person.

Beside, you're fucking up AC's post count. :mad:

What the hell?? Who do you think I AM noppid :confused:

[Colleen]

Dude, no body here posts like you. You can't change you name and be a new person.

Beside, you're fucking up AC's post count. :mad:Oh man, I am lmao! Dan if he does think that, it's hilarious!! See you in 6 days, AC...um I mean Daniel. :D

[noppid]

What the hell?? Who do you think I AM noppid :confused:

You're Anthony Cea of course.

I have the tapes. Don't hide!

OK, maybe I'm wrong. What do you drive?

[Daniel]

Oh man, I am lmao! Dan if he does think that, it's hilarious!! See you in 6 days, AC...um I mean Daniel. :D

Yeah thats funny as hell!!! believe me buddy that LAST person I am is AC!!!

mwahahahaha and you think I post like him :D:D lol

honestly dude think again your not as smart as I thought you were if you really think that :D

[Daniel]

You're Anthony Cea of course.

I have the tapes. Don't hide!

OK, maybe I'm wrong. What do you drive?

Hahahah of COURSE your wrong !!!

I drive a 4 cylender Honda all kitted out with nice rims and an integra engine!

I work in an office NOT in the construction zone.

mannnn this is hilarious !

[noppid]

Yeah thats funny as hell!!! believe me buddy that LAST person I am is AC!!!

mwahahahaha and you think I post like him :D:D lol

honestly dude think again your not as smart as I thought you were if you really think that :D

What does smart have to do with it?

AC is gone. You're here outta nowhere.

Do you have references?

What do you think of Dick Cheney?

[Colleen]

Hahahah of COURSE your wrong !!!

I drive a 4 cylender Honda all kitted out with nice rims and an integra engine!

I work in an office NOT in the construction zone.

mannnn this is hilarious !
It will be like old times, seeing you in the Honda again, that's what you picked me up in when we first met, it's gonna be strange getting in there again!! :D

[noppid]

It will be like old times, seeing you in the Honda again, that's what you picked me up in when we met, it's gonna be strange getting in there again!! :D

I'm not buying any of this.

Paypal me 2 cents Dan and prove it. AC has paid me for code.

[Daniel]

What does smart have to do with it?

AC is gone. You're here outta nowhere.

Do you have references?

What do you think of Dick Cheney?

LOL I joined this forum in Nov of last year :)

If you look at my posts from the start youll see I just took a break from the place for quite a few months :) (There's my references and im SURE Colleen would act as a refernce aswell)

I couldnt care less about Dick Cheney or any thnig else to do with polotics.

Also Im in Canada and not in the states.... Minstrel knows where im from.

Honestly im deeply offended that you took me for Anthony.

I sooooo hope I dont come across like that.

[noppid]

LOL I joined this forum in Nov of last year :)

If you look at my post from the start youll see I just took a break from the place for quite a few months :) (There's my references and im SURE Colleen would act as a refernce aswell)

I couldnt care less about Dick Cheney or any thnig else to do with polotics.

Also Im in Canada and not in the states.... Minstrel knows where im from.

Honestly im deeply offended that you took me for Anthony.

I sooooo hope I dont come across like that.

No you don't come off like him at all! Not a bit.

Damn! I was hoping I was right. Oh Well.

[Colleen]

LOL I joined this forum in Nov of last year :)

If you look at my post from the start youll see I just took a break from the place for quite a few months :) (There's my references and im SURE Colleen would act as a refernce aswell)

I couldnt care less about Dick Cheney or any thnig else to do with polotics.

Also Im in Canada and not in the states.... Minstrel knows where im from.

Honestly im deeply offended that you took me for Anthony.

I sooooo hope I dont come across like that.

I love you Daniel!! :) You don't post anything like AC. Oh whip out that old PayPal account and give noppid your 2 cents hehe.... :cool:

hehehe he even spelt "politics" wrong! More proof he's not AC!

[Daniel]

I'm not buying any of this.

Paypal me 2 cents Dan and prove it. AC has paid me for code.

Your not buying any of this?

BELIEVE ME my friend I am NOT anthony !

:D:D

[noppid]

I love you Daniel!! :) You don't post anything like AC. Oh whip out that old PayPal account and give noppid your 2 cents hehe.... :cool:


I've already made a fine deposit tonight, he can keep the two cents. :D

[Daniel]

It will be like old times, seeing you in the Honda again, that's what you picked me up in when we first met, it's gonna be strange getting in there again!! :D

It will be awesome sweetheart :)

[Daniel]

No you don't come off like him at all! Not a bit.

Damn! I was hoping I was right. Oh Well.

Mwahahahah ;)

[noppid]

Your not buying any of this?

BELIEVE ME my friend I am NOT anthony !

:D:D

Look back 4 posts.

But are you sure? I was hoping this was the good personality!

[Daniel]

I love you Daniel!! :) You don't post anything like AC. Oh whip out that old PayPal account and give noppid your 2 cents hehe.... :cool:

hehehe he even spelt "politics" wrong! More proof he's not AC!

lol the old paypal account ahs been deleted because I didnt use it in years :D

[Daniel]

Look back 4 posts.

But are you sure? I was hoping this was the good personality!


Yes I am sure :) the good personality :confused:

[Colleen]

lol the old paypal account ahs been deleted because I didnt use it in years :DOk well you can use me....any way you'd like. :cool:

[Colleen]

Daniel, we have a problem, I was told "I must spread some around before giving it to Daniel again."

hehehe

[Daniel]

Hey noppid!!!! Oil prices are sky rocketting and Bush administration is garbage!!!

;)

[Daniel]

Daniel, we have a problem, I was told "I must spread some around before giving it to Daniel again."

hehehe

Whattttttt?!?!?!?!?!?! Who told you that young lady and LET ME AT HIM!!!!

[noppid]

Hey noppid!!!! Oil prices are sky rocketting and Bush administration is garbage!!!

;)

Houston, we have an anomoly! :eek:

[Colleen]

Whattttttt?!?!?!?!?!?! Who told you that young lady and LET ME AT HIM!!!!
hehe, I knew it'd be over your head! :D

When I click to give you rep I can't cause I already gave you some, so you'll have to wait while I spread myself around. :D

[Daniel]

Houston, we have an anomoly! :eek:

:eek::eek::eek:

[Daniel]

hehe, I knew it'd be over your head! :D

When I click to give you rep I can't cause I already gave you some, so you'll have to wait while I spread myself around. :D

DAMMIT !!!!

[Colleen]

Bush and Cheney make me work the construction crew so I can get some oil for me old rattling truck so I can go to work and get more money for me truck.... damn oil bush and cheney :D

[noppid]

hehe, I knew it'd be over your head! :D

When I click to give you rep I can't cause I already gave you some, so you'll have to wait while I spread myself around. :D

Please do spread the love darling! ;)

[Daniel]

Please do spread the love darling! ;)

Please Dont! :mad:

[noppid]

And now another episode of...

[Colleen]

Please Dont! :mad:I'm all yours, sweetie. :p :o

[Daniel]

I'm all yours, sweetie. :p :o

Yep Yep I know my love :)

[noppid]

I'm all yours, sweetie. :p :o

Can I be the best man? I almost feel like I've been there from the beginning! :)

I still got a beer or two, pizza and donuts. I'm glad someone is up for this mindlessness. Look at that, two sufixes!

[Daniel]

Can I be the best man? I almost feel like I've been there from the beginning! :)

I still got a beer or two, pizza and donuts. I'm glad someone is up for this mindlessness. Look at that, two sufixes!

Haha and im getting tired ! Noppid your in the same time zone as C and I I think.

its 2am here.

[noppid]

Haha and im getting tired ! Noppid your in the same time zone as C and I I think.

its 2am here.

Here too, almost outta gas, but there's beer left!

[Colleen]

Me three, getting pretty tired. :)

[zman]

Im a rare breed of Conservative. I say legalize it. :)

[MorgansMom]

My husband's habitual pot smoking almost ruined our marriage. It didn't solve any problems, it just created a whole mess of them.

I've noticed a huge difference in him since he quit. He's not as irritable, he remembers things now, we have more money, he's more attentative to our daughter....the list goes on.

[sarahk]

Thanks MorgansMom, that's the other side to the adult self responsibility thing :!: Every action impacts on others, sometimes good (like now) and sometimes bad. Dope is always in the neutral to bad range. Never the good.

Surely most of us hope our actions are in the neutral to good range?

Sarah

[GTech]

Im a rare breed of Conservative. I say legalize it. :)

I depart from typical conservative ideas on this issue as well.

At a minimum, legalizing it for medical uses where there is clear evidence the drug helps those in pain should be considered. On one hand, patients could have something they can grow themselves and use for free to help with their pain/suffering. Verses spending hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars a month for over-priced prescription drugs. Patients that do not have large sums of disposable income to spend on drugs would have a cost-effective treatment (free) to help with their pain.

At a maximum, legalize it and subject it to the same or similar standards as alcohol. I personally think alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana. Put a dozen rednecks in a room with a keg of coors light, and before the night is over, someone's going to be in a fight. Put a dozen rednecks in a room with a few joints and they'll come out laughing and best friends.

[ST.Matthew]

I think legalizing it would be better because there is too many cases of police arresting youngsters and by that ruing their life for a better future later on, so I agree its ok to smoke in some level (I hardly know people that never even tried) but just like drinking it shouldn't be often.
And I don't believe all the propaganda from both sides, I do however know for sure that its not as harmful the way they showing it in commercials.

[debunked]

don't blame the police for ruining their lives... The youngsters do have choicing, including breaking the laws even if you don't agree with the law. Then what they do after getting busted? They just smoke more and fry more brain cells... I have a friend who smoked it all the time and he would just piss me off. He also couldn't figure out why he was broke or why nothing seemed to work for him - like keeping a job. :LOL I think he is off of it now and has been keeping jobs longer.

[Trance-formation]

What's your opinion? Should Maryjane be legal?
I think they should legalise it and I don't smoke anything ... or drink

[STVP]

MMMM do I need to even say my thoughts..... Look at my avatar...


" Stoners dont beat up there chics" Ouote of the day

[chachi]

I don't really think smoking a naturally occuring plant on this planet should be illegal. I have been looking for the beer tree for a while, but I got sidetracked looking for the Vodka bush. It is not going anywhere, just like booze, beers and cigarettes are not going anywhere. Why not legalize it or place restrictions on it like any other "controlled" substance.

[Izo]

I don't really think smoking a naturally occuring plant on this planet should be illegal.


100% ACK!
It just makes no sense to me to outlaw a part of nature. :confused:
The same goes with magic mushrooms...i can't understand how a plant can be declared 'illegal'.

[STVP]

A Hamburger from Carls Jr. is worse then.. a spliff. for real..

[palespyder]

I don't smoke anymore ( or any less ;) ) then I use to, but, I think if you are in your home, you don't drive, and you aren't hurting anyone but yourself....whats the fu**ing problem? I swear to god, someone said we have the highest incarciration(sp) rate in the world and yet we are supposed to be the only truly "free" country. I would love to know the percentage of these that are drug related.

http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/947/928_2620be50d236fabd6217b0b4bab8ea37.jpg

[chachi]

Izo - Oleanders are poisonous...they are not illegal. Obviously a posionous "part of nature" should be illegal using your rationale, no?

[Izo]

Belladonna isn't illegal either...and it can poison you to death. In contrary to weed....it's simply a political decision that has been made...and politics and "rational decisions" is another pot of tee we could discuss for ages...

[chachi]

I like to think for myself and I agree with palespyder...no harm, no foul. It is a plant, if I want to grow it I should be able to without the long arm of the law saying otherwise. My 2 cents.

[zman]

My husband's habitual pot smoking almost ruined our marriage. It didn't solve any problems, it just created a whole mess of them.

So we should get rid of alcohol as well then eh?

Its all about personal responsibility. JMHO

[Trance-formation]

So we should get rid of alcohol as well then eh?

Its all about personal responsibility. JMHO

First, I would decriminalise possession and personal use of all psychoactive/recreation pharmaceuticals. Just to make my stance clear for what follows:-)

There is a lot more to this debate than personal responsibility. I have been a psychiatric nurse now for 15 years and involved in mental health for longer. Over the last 15 years I have seen drug precipitated psychosis admitted to hospital on a steady increase from maybe one every few months to it forming a stable (probably about 10%) part of the inpatient population. Recreational drug use precipitates significant mental health problems in a significant proportion of the population. This can't just be ignored. But it can't be effectively dealt with by criminalising that section of out society that use drugs recreationally or experimentally (and I do believe that consciousness research is a legitimate field).

The problem won't go away... it's going to get bigger... it becomes easier and easier to make artificial psychoactives... new recreational drugs ARE going to hit the market, and they are going to be chemicals our bodies and our neuro-receptors have never seen.

To debate this succesfully we have to acknowledge that drug use impacts society and non-drug users in many significant ways, economically and in terms of law and order and security etc. But I don't believe that can be dealth with by shoving the activity under the carpet. I speak as someone who has probably messed with my head chemically more than most of you have had food, and has made a conscious decision now to not take any form of recreation chemical. I would rather it was legal, we control the sources (take it from the hands of organised crime), we educate as to the consequences (I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it) both personal and social, and we deal with the consequences openly and without shame.

</soapbox>

[zman]

ummm... arent we talking about pot? You can do all the studies you want, but that doesnt change the fact that you are probably talking to people who have smoked the stuff for years and years.

Where are the nevative effects? Where are the problems? Im a responsible person, Im very active in politics and run my own business at only 25 years old. I smoked pot from the age of 16 to 23, and I mean several times a day, every day. I feel great! Im healthy, motivated, doing good on finances.

I no longer touch the stuff because I am quite active in politics and breaking the law is something I can no longer be a part of.

One of the reasons I am active in politics is because I am a big opponent of those who would raise our taxes for wasteful spending.

Let me ask, do you think it is worth paying our hard earned dollars so that a 71 year old man who was pulled over and happened to have a roach in the floorboard can spend 27 days in jail on a first offense?

Think it doesnt happen? Think again. I just so happened to know the man.

We let people who beat on woman out without even thinking about it, but God forbid we have a little old man who likes to puff on a spliff from time to time walking the streets. :rolleyes:

Im sorry, but I just dont see the logic in that.

[Trance-formation]

Did you read my first line??

And I'm not talking studies, I'm talking direct observation of patients and friends... they may only make up say 2% of the smoking population but it is a significant problem. Mind altering drugs alter your mind. And that's OK but lets not pretend it is a risk free activity.

Where are the nevative effects? Where are the problems? Im a responsible person, Im very active in politics and run my own business at only 25 years old. I smoked pot from the age of 16 to 23, and I mean several times a day, every day. I feel great! Im healthy, motivated, doing good on finances.

Oh come on... I know guys in their 70's who smoke and drink whisky every day... their existence is not proof that drinking whisky and smoking are risk free activities.

Negative effects? In some, extreme paranoia, delusions, in others, lethargy, reduced cognitive function. Not in everyone, but in enough. And yeah, I'm talking weed here.


Let me ask, do you think it is worth paying our hard earned dollars so that a 71 year old man who was pulled over and happened to have a roach in the floorboard can spend 27 days in jail on a first offense?

Of course not...if you read my post at all you would have realised I would criminalise NOBODY for smoking.

[zman]

Mind altering drugs alter your mind. And that's OK but lets not pretend it is a risk free activity.

First of all, I never said it was risk free. Coffee is not risk free, smoking cigarettes are not risk free, driving a vehical 70 mph is not risk free.

My argument is that there seems to be a double standard when it comes to this.
Pot didnt really alter my mind that much, it was more a physical pleasure in my case. Alcohol on the other hand is FAR more dangerous IMHO.

Trance, I respect your opinion, but I can only speak from personal experience, and honestly, there are far more important things to worry about rather than what Jim next door may be puffing on.

Again, its about personal responsibility. If a person can control themselves, they will be ok. At least this was the case when it came to me or ANYONE I know.

[dcristo]

First, I would decriminalise possession and personal use of all psychoactive/recreation pharmaceuticals. Just to make my stance clear for what follows:-)

There is a lot more to this debate than personal responsibility. I have been a psychiatric nurse now for 15 years and involved in mental health for longer. Over the last 15 years I have seen drug precipitated psychosis admitted to hospital on a steady increase from maybe one every few months to it forming a stable (probably about 10%) part of the inpatient population. Recreational drug use precipitates significant mental health problems in a significant proportion of the population. This can't just be ignored. But it can't be effectively dealt with by criminalising that section of out society that use drugs recreationally or experimentally (and I do believe that consciousness research is a legitimate field).

The problem won't go away... it's going to get bigger... it becomes easier and easier to make artificial psychoactives... new recreational drugs ARE going to hit the market, and they are going to be chemicals our bodies and our neuro-receptors have never seen.

To debate this succesfully we have to acknowledge that drug use impacts society and non-drug users in many significant ways, economically and in terms of law and order and security etc. But I don't believe that can be dealth with by shoving the activity under the carpet. I speak as someone who has probably messed with my head chemically more than most of you have had food, and has made a conscious decision now to not take any form of recreation chemical. I would rather it was legal, we control the sources (take it from the hands of organised crime), we educate as to the consequences (I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it) both personal and social, and we deal with the consequences openly and without shame.

</soapbox>

This has to be the most intelligent post in this thread. I would like to hear your viewpoint on the psychological effects of marijuana vs ecstasy use for moderate/high usage. What's been your experience?

[Trance-formation]

zman- the nature of my work is that I get to see the damage that most people don't, but it is out there whether you see it or not.... but I agree, alcohol is far more dangerous

[minstrel]

My position is very similar to Trance's and for much the same reasons (see my posts on this subject about 10 pages ago :eek: I can't believe this thread is still going).

It's not about locking people up -- it's about informed choices. And as Trance said, pot is NOT risk-free. If, knowing that, you make a personal choice to take the risks, go ahead. I don't believe you should be locked up for making that choice. But, as I said earlier, I think the pro-weed propaganda is at least as bad (harmful) as some of the more extreme anti-weed propaganda: No matter which side you're on, it's still propaganda. And that won't help anyone.

Get the facts out there and let people make informed choices and I'd be satisfied: Regular or long term heavy use of pot has a number of negative effects, some of them potentially serious. So does regular or long-term heavy use of alcohol. Know that and make your own decision. Just don't stick your head in the sand before making that decision.

Addendum: Just saw Trance's last post and I disagree with one statement there -- I don't think alcohol is far more dangerous -- I'd say the dangers are about the same for most people. For some, alcohol is clearly more dangerous -- for others, there's little doubt that pot is far more dangerous.

[Trance-formation]

Addendum: Just saw Trance's last post and I disagree with one statement there -- I don't think alcohol is far more dangerous -- I'd say the dangers are about the same for most people. For some, alcohol is clearly more dangerous -- for others, there's little doubt that pot is far more dangerous.

Maybe my point would be clearer if I said that the consequences of the extreme use of alcohol are more damaging to the indiviudal and to society than the consequences of extreme use of cannabis in most of its common forms.

[zman]

If, knowing that, you make a personal choice to take the risks, go ahead. I don't believe you should be locked up for making that choice

I concur..

[Trance-formation]

This has to be the most intelligent post in this thread. I would like to hear your viewpoint on the psychological effects of marijuana vs ecstasy use for moderate/high usage. What's been your experience?

I'm not sure I would want to compare them. Nor, I have to say, would I consider my opinion more intelligent than anyone elses... it does concern me though that the debate on this subject very quickly seems to take on a cartoon Tom and Jerry quality which does no ones position any justice.

Ecstacy is not currently a major problem in my experience when it comes to rapid onset of mental illness... cannabis can be... most of my professional encounters with people taking ecstacy tend to be on a friday or saturday night when I used to to Mental health Liaison in Casualty :-) but seemsed to be the effects of the drug itself rather than the trigger of any latent mental health problems... long term I think we have yet to really discover anything useful. But it will be what it will be. People will, and should take intelligent risks.

[ST.Matthew]

First, I would decriminalise possession and personal use of all psychoactive/recreation pharmaceuticals. Just to make my stance clear for what follows:-)

There is a lot more to this debate than personal responsibility. I have been a psychiatric nurse now for 15 years and involved in mental health for longer. Over the last 15 years I have seen drug precipitated psychosis admitted to hospital on a steady increase from maybe one every few months to it forming a stable (probably about 10%) part of the inpatient population. Recreational drug use precipitates significant mental health problems in a significant proportion of the population. This can't just be ignored. But it can't be effectively dealt with by criminalising that section of out society that use drugs recreationally or experimentally (and I do believe that consciousness research is a legitimate field).

The problem won't go away... it's going to get bigger... it becomes easier and easier to make artificial psychoactives... new recreational drugs ARE going to hit the market, and they are going to be chemicals our bodies and our neuro-receptors have never seen.

To debate this succesfully we have to acknowledge that drug use impacts society and non-drug users in many significant ways, economically and in terms of law and order and security etc. But I don't believe that can be dealth with by shoving the activity under the carpet. I speak as someone who has probably messed with my head chemically more than most of you have had food, and has made a conscious decision now to not take any form of recreation chemical. I would rather it was legal, we control the sources (take it from the hands of organised crime), we educate as to the consequences (I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it) both personal and social, and we deal with the consequences openly and without shame.

</soapbox>

(I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it).
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to my death, your right to say it".
I couldn't resist to post that line, maybe one of the most important quotes for pluralism.

Anyway I'm supporting your opinion (since I've tried some of these "chemical" myself).and just to make it clear to a lot of you, it never damaged me neither mentally or physically, I think it all depends about your personality. Some have addictive personalities the other (like me) dont.beside that, I believe anyone can limit themselves, I prepared myself way ahead before even trying anything and made sure that it's just for the experience,and I don't regret every second of it. it dosent really matter what people do as long as they're not a threat to society.
P.S.I would like to hear more about LSD effect. (Negatives and positives reactions)

[minstrel]

I've tried some of these "chemical" myself... and just to make it clear to a lot of you, it never damaged me neither mentally or physically
How can you be so sure?

Some adverse effects are subtle and don't become overt for years in some case...

[yfs1]

Huh? What was the question again Minstrel?

[debunked]

How can you be so sure?

Some adverse effects are subtle and don't become overt for years in some case...

I take it you have seen first hand many of the effects - like the surfers in santa cruz who would say "I have been smokin pot for years and it hasn't affected me in any way" the problem is it takes some decifering to figure out what he just said.

Being around the homeless in the area and many guys who have become borderline homeless (living place to place) have one thing in common - drug and/or alcohol use. The results are actually similar in most cases: a lack of reasoning and the mental state is that of the age they started using heavily.

Most struggle very hard to live apart from the drug (or alcohol)

[STVP]

If you guys only new how many people on forbes list smoked weed. Some people tend to blame the drug maybe its the will power that is the problem.

[sarahk]

Being around the homeless in the area and many guys who have become borderline homeless (living place to place) have one thing in common - drug and/or alcohol use. The results are actually similar in most cases: a lack of reasoning and the mental state is that of the age they started using heavily.

Most struggle very hard to live apart from the drug (or alcohol)But then you have the counter argument that the drug of choice is actually self-medication for some other problem and therefore a symptom not the cause.

[minstrel]

Options...

[sarahk]

If you guys only new how many people on forbes list smoked weed.That is such a cliche, with so many variations. care to out anyone?

The only public figure I've ever seen being out there and proud about his drug use is Nandor Tanczos (http://www.ps.parliament.govt.nz/mp133.htm), and unlikey Member of Parliament.

Now, why aren't the others?

[noppid]

How many movie stars have taken a misdemeanor for pot?

I think that's enough examples. :)

[sarahk]

How many movie stars have taken a misdemeanor for pot?shop lifting, assault... not realistic role models really, I'd rather have someone who does a regular days work - like in IT :o

[noppid]

shop lifting, assault... not realistic role models really, I'd rather have someone who does a regular days work - like in IT :o

I've worked in the biggest of big companies. Pot is not your problem Cocaine, heroin and meth are. Trust me honey, I've seen heroine on the desks of corporate raiders. I have no intention of outting anyone or any company though. We're talking fortune 100 here too.

Pot, you gotta be kidding, they have to have it to come down. LOL

[minstrel]

Is shoplifting Twinkies considered a crime? Or a suicide attempt? :confused:

[noppid]

Is shoplifting Twinkies considered a crime? Or a suicide attempt? :confused:

I don't even want to know where one hides twinkies when shoplifting them! :eek: