My beefs with Link-vault

[Homer]

I joined LV April 25, 2005. Here are my comments/ beefs with them. Firstly I want to say that they are a new kid on the block and deserve credit for attempting to create a coop that includes static linking. They will need time to grow. In time to come they may be a real network force. Right now I'm probably pulling out. Here's why:

1) When you reach level 3 referrers you can see all the links that point to you. Many of them simply don't have my link included on the said page or there are shady webmasters redirecting to other pages. In my case I had PR6 page redirecting to a PR0 page. When I posted this on the forum I was told they' re on 7 day warning. WTF...I've seen Shawn become aware of blantant COOP manipulation (Cloaking)...you're out now PERIOD. Here they get a seven day grace period for blantantly abusing the system.

2) I have posted another message to forum admins stating that LOTS (roughly 1/3 of 4500 links) of pages DON'T have my link. I have said that I would be happy to post a detailed list. My vaultage has been consumed based on having these links. The higher the PR of your linkback the more 'vaultage' it costs you. No response to this post for 1 week now :rolleyes:

3) I cannot create enough ads to consume my vaultage. It is very time consuming, which is OK and I don't mind if it pays off. But not all links go up, although your vaultage is debitted accordingly.

4) Server is WAY TO SLOW. I don't have time to wait up to 5 minutes for a reply from their server.

5) If their network (server) goes down your pages hang forever. I beleive this has been fixed now. But this was a pain in the ass when it happened.

6) The way they find pages that bear the LV code is by hand (?). So your vaultage is a VERY slow climb. IT increases as they find more pages. Unlike DP COOP which assigns your weight when you join. In my case I have 1 site with 1300 indexed pages with Google all PR ranked from 1-4. I can hardly find links on any of my pages.

7) I get some nice links once in a while...then they're reppoed (repossessed). I have all this vautage and NO way to use it. If I sit down tonight and create 100's of ads all I get is link backs from crap sites. This hardly consumes any vaultage.

8) I am not sure if this is coincidence or not but I can find 1 link back in Google's index from LV. I have found a few in MSN and Yahoo, but nothing to write home about. It's because they are constantly changing who links to who. Geez they may as well be rotating.

Well that's about it for now. In light of the recent DP Ranking experiment (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=15507) it is (to me) pretty obvious where my weight needs to be.

[Infiniterb]

As to your post in the experiment thread, my main beef is that all pages MUST be cached by Google in order to direct an ad to a page. So, if your brand new site on widgets isn't cached by Google, you cannot point any of your vaultage to your new site (or even a new PAGE on an established domain). This means you need to wait x number of days before you can begin the slow and steady climb with a max of 20 links a day.

I also noticed some pages not having my links as well. I noticed that when I left the network awhile back I was still showing as active, with vaultage, and links still pointing to my pages. I had even taken the lv code off and reaped whatever benefits they had for up to a week it seemed.

[davert]

In a way this points to one of the big scams of linking: webmasters who post very temporary links, or who post all their links on pages not attached to their site in any way, or who have software that shows a different page to different people - all worthless.

I was also disappointed in LinkAdage when I bought links there - the quality of the pages was lower than I expected. They aren't bad for revenue generation if you want to take the time.

[AfterHim.com]

If you have complaints with LV...why aren't you posting this at their forums?

[noppid]

If you have complaints with LV...why aren't you posting this at their forums?


This is a review and alot of folks are interested.

I will find the post, but the sites hanging and the server being too small were the exact predictions I made in another thread that would take them down.

It seems to be happening in their infancy.

[Homer]

If you have complaints with LV...why aren't you posting this at their forums?Here's three good answers:
1) Another Dp member asked me to post it.
2) It may benefit COOP members here
3) I did post it in there forum.

Are you a coop member? My bet is no, or you would not make such a comment :rolleyes:

[nightmare5liter]

If you have complaints with LV...why aren't you posting this at their forums?

Perhaps this is for the benefit of the dp readers and not just a rant. I for one appreciate the comments here.

[noppid]

Here's my comment.

Can LinkVault Set a New Standard? (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=170783&postcount=101)

[ferret77]

I was kind of curious how link vault was going

I enrolled one small site, and according to their control panel, it got me 94 links

I was thinking of enrollinga a large site just to see what it would do, but since I am like a crack head with my weight, I am hesitant to jump to the unknown for any length of time.

After dozens of posts on the virtues of link vault, I am curious to know its shortcommings

[pcdoc]

IMO, the jury is still out.

[Homer]

but since I am like a crack head with my weight LOL...you better stay away from LV then, you'll being doin crack for a long time. :)

After dozens of posts on the virtues of link vault, I am curious to know its shortcommings Strictly my opinions and comments, you can take it or leave it ;). It would seem that this network could make real go of it in time. There in a tough position, I think. Alot of DPers jumped ship, plus word got around. Their resources have been exceeded.

I can recall Shawn had donations he was accepting for the new COOP server from coop members. I beleive the cost was 20k USD. It's a good thing he had/ has such a large network of good members that contributed.

[noppid]

IMO, the jury is still out.

Can you explain why your opinion is positive in light of his experience? What is being done to want one to wait for improvements in these areas?

It sounds like an experiment going wildly wrong or a scam when redirects are an issue.

What about the slow server response?

What about the lack of recip management despite compliance?

[Homer]

Just got to big too fast, noppid. I have tried a few sites over there I am going to bring the heaviest one back now to DP and study the results more closely. Maybe I have to learn how to use my weight more wisely.

I can't help but thinking that the static linking structure would be a better long term solution. If it was set up from front to back with adequet resource and planning, this could work.

[noppid]

Agreed, it's a huge task though that puts too much manual effort on end users though, that part is hard to control.

[Bazkaz]

Thanks for the opinions Homer. Good to hear.

[wendydettmer]

I can recall Shawn had donations he was accepting for the new COOP server from coop members. I beleive the cost was 20k USD. It's a good thing he had/ has such a large network of good members that contributed.

I could be wrong, but I think the donations were for a new server for the keyword tracking tool - i don't believe it had anything to do with the co op, although the co op may be running on those servers.

sorry about your not so positive experience with LV.

[Homer]

I could be wrong, but I think the donations were for a new server for the keyword tracking tool - i don't believe it had anything to do with the co op, although the co op may be running on those servers.

sorry about your not so positive experience with LV.

Hi Wendy. Nice to talk you...hope all is well with you. I am pretty sure that some/ all of the funds raised were for the coop server. I can recall this was right around the time I joined. I think I recall reading either in a thread or right in COOP CP that donation were being accepted to upgrade server for coop. With that also was a running chart showing daily funds increase.

[mrdjkcool]

To add to this. I added a few sites a few days back to LV and then it seemed to revert back to an older version of LV last night.

(perhaps another server crash and back to a backup?)

The concept is definitely good but I dont think they are ready for the traffic they could have gotten yet. Maybe time will improve things.

I also noticed that while I have the weight I cant consume it all. Maybe the sysadmins cant keep up?

[AfterHim.com]

Are you a coop member? My bet is no, or you would not make such a comment :rolleyes:

I don't understand the relevance to this discussion, but I am a member of both.

The reason I posted what I did was because it seemed more like 8 complaints that a review. Complaints are better directed towards LV so if they know what your issues are, they can try to resolve them.

In fact if you search, I posted my complaints to the LV forum about 3 weeks ago. Some of which were resolved.

Not trying to create a fight...however, my comment was directed towards you Homer, not the flamers...

[Dominic]

mrdjkcool... You can't consume all your vaultage?

Do you realise it is spent over time as you accumulate links at a set rate? Have you recieved links to the level that you set to accumulate them?

Homer... The thread posted in the Link Vault forums on this topic has a response from the admin have you read it yet?

[noppid]

mrdjkcool... You can't consume all your vaultage?

Do you realise it is spent over time as you accumulate links at a set rate? Have you recieved links to the level that you set to accumulate them?

Homer... The thread posted in the Link Vault forums on this topic has a response from the admin have you read it yet?

That's where the program is flawed and will fail. You have to depend on manual work by other webmasters the way it is described so far to achive that.

That will be the downfall, PERIOD! If we could count on people to do this and manage hundreds of pages and more links manually, link trading would work.

I can not see this part of the program ever having success. You just can't conut on people no matter how good their intentions.

Put up a link, wait for the other webmaster to recip and it's all manual. In the mean time, if they don't comply in the seven days, you flew their ad for free, now have to remove it and play pick another webmaster.

[Homer]

I don't understand the relevance to this discussion, but I am a member of both. Then you should understand that this post is for the benefit of all of us here...it is not a rant. It is my experience and feelings around LV. If you don't like what I have to say...
If you have complaints with LV...why aren't you posting this at their forums? Then don't read it, it's that simple. You probably should have checked with LV before posting a meaningless dumb comment like this.
The concept is definitely good but I dont think they are ready for the traffic they could have gotten yet. Maybe time will improve things. Agreed...it's just frustrating when you put hours a day into creating ads only to find out that your links back are constantly changed or simply not on the pages they are supposed to be. :(
That's where the program is flawed and will fail. You have to depend on manual work by other webmasters the way it is described so far to achive that. I agree with this as well. Not sure if failure is a certainty, though. These guys seem like they are willing to do what it takes. If they can react fast enough they may not lose too many members.
Homer... The thread posted in the Link Vault forums on this topic has a response from the admin have you read it yet? I have tried countless times to get back into their forum...THE SERVER IS TOO SLOW. :rolleyes: I managed to get in last night and read what some have said. It appears I am not alone in my thinking. I will try to login again later Domenic, thanks.

[bloodwrath]

No program is perfect and yes its new, and will take time to mature.
I moved most of my sites over
i have a few to try and compair the 2 (LV & DP)
and ya i took a hit the in SE, but im starting to get my links back
in less than 1-2 weeks..

LV has many good features (depending on referals, but your sites count as referals:D)
http://www.link-vault.com/faq.asp
Level 1 (1 referral) –Vaultage bonus up to 250
Level 2 (2 referrals) – Vaultage bonus up to 500 plus extra extra urls
Level 3 (4 referrals) – List of pages your links have been placed
Level 4 (7 referrals) – List of links placed on your site(s) and where
Level 5 (10 referrals) – Simply up down stats tracking for adverts with brief history
Level 6 (13 referrals) – History graphs to display the past performance of your adverts
Level 7 (16 referrals) – Unlimited URL allowance

SO
I can see what site/page my sites are linked to
I can see what sites or linked to my site/pages
My pages load just as fast with or without link vault code.

auto update - I dont have time to manually update all my sites when new code comes out, its done automatically. this is not the default, you have to setup this way.

Theme bases links..not to bad just need more site to join to get better
Permanent Static links.. i like these.. save me time exchanging links

these are just a few of the reasons i moved to link vault

[Dominic]

noppid, do you even use link vault or are you just pissing in the breeze again?

The only work required from other members of link vault is to put the code on the pages they want to display links once! That's it.

That's where the program is flawed and will fail. You have to depend on manual work by other webmasters the way it is described so far to achive that.

That will be the downfall, PERIOD! If we could count on people to do this and manage hundreds of pages and more links manually, link trading would work.

I can not see this part of the program ever having success. You just can't conut on people no matter how good their intentions.

Put up a link, wait for the other webmaster to recip and it's all manual. In the mean time, if they don't comply in the seven days, you flew their ad for free, now have to remove it and play pick another webmaster.

[Dominic]

Actually bloodwrath it's just changed, but they haven't updated the faq page.

Now everyone gets the first 5 levels of features and a % weight bonus (think it's 5%) for referrals.

[bloodwrath]

Actually bloodwrath it's just changed, but they haven't updated the faq page.

Now everyone gets the first 5 levels of features and a % weight bonus (think it's 5%) for referrals.

ya was just reading that

[noppid]

noppid, do you even use link vault or are you just pissing in the breeze again?

The only work required from other members of link vault is to put the code on the pages they want to display links once! That's it.

Do you always come off so charming when you don't get the answer you want?

What part of each page is seperate and needs the code added by hand to each to be specifically different makes it easy? I'm asking, not telling and you are no help convincing me you are right with half baked answers. If I am wrong in my understanding correct me.

Is every page unique? Does every page require unique code installed to be unique? Can I install one file site wide and get each page reconized as unique and have the proper unique ad show on that specific page only?

Help me out here, pissing at me is not helping the cause really. I don't want to see them fail, but it's obvious they are right now. Whether it's bad code, slow server, or bad members, the fact remains, they are young and are out of resources early in the game. They did not grow that large either, that I aint buying.

So what's up? Correct me with the facts please.

[Homer]

noppid, do you even use link vault or are you just pissing in the breeze again?

The only work required from other members of link vault is to put the code on the pages they want to display links once! That's it.
Don't forget about creating the ads. To me that's where all the work is. The system and user interface is good. But admin and policing of the said links is where I am coming from. If I log in today, spend a couple hours making ads, they are sometimes approved withing 24 hours. Then we wait for placement unless the links you create are pointing to non cached pages. Then you wait and wait to maybe get placement. It is probably better that you don't create ads for non cached pages because you will probably wait a long time for link placement.
LV has many good features (depending on referals, but your sites count as referals)
http://www.link-vault.com/faq.asp
Level 1 (1 referral) –Vaultage bonus up to 250
Level 2 (2 referrals) – Vaultage bonus up to 500 plus extra extra urls
Level 3 (4 referrals) – List of pages your links have been placed
Level 4 (7 referrals) – List of links placed on your site(s) and where
Level 5 (10 referrals) – Simply up down stats tracking for adverts with brief history
Level 6 (13 referrals) – History graphs to display the past performance of your adverts
Level 7 (16 referrals) – Unlimited URL allowance

SO
I can see what site/page my sites are linked to
I can see what sites or linked to my site/pages
My pages load just as fast with or without link vault code.

auto update - I dont have time to manually update all my sites when new code comes out, its done automatically. this is not the default, you have to setup this way. I have seen this and love the idea, but the network must function as a network first. All these incentives are simply NFG if server goes down, links aren't being placed fairly, webmasters are cheating the system, etc. So IMO, there are bigger issues to sort out before we start benefiting from these great perks.

[teamshop]

Is every page unique? Does every page require unique code installed to be unique? Can I install one file site wide and get each page reconized as unique and have the proper unique ad show on that specific page only?

noppid,

The link vault setup is exactly like coop. An external php file, a text file, and include code added to each page (or once to header/footer files). Every page gets unique ads to that page.

[Dominic]

Sorry for that, you tend to post a hell of a lot and have annoyed me lately. I'll get over it. :)

What part of each page is seperate and needs the code added by hand to each to be specifically different makes it easy?

Is every page unique? Does every page require unique code installed to be unique? Can I install one file site wide and get each page reconized as unique and have the proper unique ad show on that specific page only?

If you want to allocate ad space sitewide, you just ad the code to your footer or where ever you want. Like the coop, this same set of code calls info from their server. No need to make an addition page by page by page one at a time or anything crazy like that unless you want to... to pick and choose which pages you allow ads on and which ones you don't.

I think the confusion on this comes in as you don't have to include the code on every page. One of the good points I believe is you can choose to only allocate ad space on a page by page basis.

The reason why your weight or 'vaultage' is used up slowly is you can specify in the control pannel for each ad you run, the number of links to acquire each day. The advantage being you are able to acquire the links gradually rather than all at once, allowing for a more natural link building campaign.

[Homer]

noppid,

The link vault setup is exactly like coop. An external php file, a text file, and include code added to each page (or once to header/footer files). Every page gets unique ads to that page.
...plus, as previously mentioned, 'auto update' which is optional, but if you elect to have this you never have to update again.

[noppid]

noppid,

The link vault setup is exactly like coop. An external php file, a text file, and include code added to each page (or once to header/footer files). Every page gets unique ads to that page.

So why do folks say, "then you have to wait for the webmaster to add the link?"

You lose me there.

Add the link where? Why do you say each page? That is a confusing term.

So if I added this to my site that uses one common footer and has 900 pages indexed, each with a unique name, a user can request to show their link on a specific page and that will happen without me or them doing anything else? For all 900 pages?

[teamshop]

So why do folks say, "then you have to wait for the webmaster to add the link?"

You lose me there.

Add the link where? Why do you say each page? That is a confusing term.

So if I added this to my site that uses one common footer and has 900 pages indexed, each with a unique name, a user can request to show their link on a specific page and that will happen without me or them doing anything else? For all 900 pages?

You have no control on which sites add your link as with the coop. All a webmaster has to do is add the LV code and the system takes care of the rest. Supposedly once enough sites are in the program, links will be added to sites by theme.

[Infiniterb]

You have no control on which sites add your link as with the coop. All a webmaster has to do is ad the LV code and the system takes care of the rest. Supposedly once enough sites are in the program, links will be added to sites by theme.

Links currently are added by theme first, then if there isn't a theme, the links are placed whereever there's place in the network.

[Dominic]

Homer how come it takes you a few hours creating ads? Their server was pretty slow when it was getting upgraded but it takes no time now.

I agree there are some issues to sort out with what sites are allowed in to be linked to, but on the same token don't want to be linking to uncached pages. My sites are well established, so linking to several pages goog has never seen before isn't probably such a good idea.

[Dominic]

So why do folks say, "then you have to wait for the webmaster to add the link?"

You lose me there.

Add the link where? Why do you say each page? That is a confusing term.

So if I added this to my site that uses one common footer and has 900 pages indexed, each with a unique name, a user can request to show their link on a specific page and that will happen without me or them doing anything else? For all 900 pages?

The webmaster doesn't ad the link, link vault does.

Yes you can ad the code to one common footer.

Only the link vault admins know what space is available.

You write an ad, specify the language, theme and number of links to place each day and submit.. that's it.

[noppid]

You have no control on which sites add your link as with the coop. All a webmaster has to do is add the LV code and the system takes care of the rest. Supposedly once enough sites are in the program, links will be added to sites by theme.

You guys lost me, I thought the point of LV was to put the ads in specific places?

I just don't think anyone really knows the real intention or how it works to be honest.

No ill will meant, I'm sure as they grow, they will improve. However, even if it hurts your feelings, It's not going well right now by the feedback being given.

[teamshop]

No feeling hurt here noppid,

LV is basically the exact same thing as the coop except for the static versus rotating links and the planned exclusively theme based links (infiniterb, you are right unless your site category is thinly populated). Of course LV is in it's infancy so there are bugs and growing pains that need to be worked out

[Dominic]

The point for me is static links, and lots of them.

You know if you register, you can knock around in the control pannel and see how it's set up, without adding the code to any of your sites.

[noppid]

Thanks to both of you for the help. I was apparently confused.

[Homer]

Homer how come it takes you a few hours creating ads? Their server was pretty slow when it was getting upgraded but it takes no time now. Besides server issues, (which seems to be improving) I try to create tons of ads to use up more vaultage. I did say 'if' though. The reality is I may spend 1 hour to create 100 ads.

So we are clear on this, I have NOT pulled all sites out of LV just larger ones as I cannot use up vaultage quick enough. My smaller ones have anywhere from 500-3000 vaultage. I will remain in the middle on this until I can see improvements.

I do understand the value of this network, so I don't want ANY members of DP nor LV getting bent up because I may appear to be LV bashing. That is not the case. Remember knowledge is power...we share, we all profit from this.

[bloodwrath]

I have over 12 sites, 6000+ vaultage
and in a 2 weeks ive used up 4600 vaultage
with 1 ad per site
so 12 ads..
and my vaultage is going up every day..
so why do u need to create so many ads??

my sites range from pr 0-5
most are PR 4

LV has a max of 20 links a day to the SE dont take note of your site
by you having a few links to bam thousands all at one time

[noppid]

I have over 12 sites, 6000+ vaultage
and in a 2 weeks ive used up 4600 vaultage
with 1 ad per site
so 12 ads..
and my vaultage is going up every day..
so why do u need to create so many ads??

my sites range from pr 0-5
most are PR 4

LV has a max of 20 links a day to the SE dont take note of your site
by you having a few links to bam thousands all at one time

You are running 12 ads total in the network? You recieve 12 static backlinks in other words for that vaultage?


Thanks

[bloodwrath]

yes and yes
1 for each site

[teamshop]

You are running 12 ads total in the network? You recieve 12 static backlinks in other words for that vaultage?


Thanks

No he has 12 ads that get distributed throughout all the network sites. Each link placement uses up x amount of vaultage based on the popularity of the site placed. For each ad you can choose to have up to 20 links added per day so if he had 12 ads set at 20 links per day he would get 240 links placed per day

[teamshop]

yes and yes
1 for each site

How are you set up? 1 link per day per ad?

[noppid]

No he has 12 ads that get distributed throughout all the network sites. Each link placement uses up x amount of vaultage based on the popularity of the site placed. For each ad you can choose to have up to 20 links added per day so if he had 12 ads set at 20 links per day he would get 240 links placed per day

That's interesting. So each link cost vaultage times the number of sites you want it to fly on?

When you say per day, that means they become permanant right? The per day is another confusing term. It makes it sound like tomorrow the pool could be different and the ad moved?

[teamshop]

That's interesting. So each link cost vaultage times the number of sites you want it to fly on?

When you say per day, that means they become permanant right? The per day is another confusing term. It makes it sound like tomorrow the pool could be different and the ad moved?

Yes, vaultage is charged based on the value of the link placed, say a link gets placed on a PR8 site, it cost much more vaultage than it would on a PR0 site. (using PR as example, their algo uses numerous factors) and it becomes permanent.

Each ad is only place x amount of times per day up to 20 (your choice) so as not to be seen by the SE's an un-natural linking scheme ie. gaining too many links too fast

[bloodwrath]

How are you set up? 1 link per day per ad?

I have 1 ad per site
12 sites.
20 link a day per ad/site

[noppid]

Yes, vaultage is charged based on the value of the link placed, say a link gets placed on a PR8 site, it cost much more vaultage than it would on a PR0 site. (using PR as example, their algo uses numerous factors) and it becomes permanent.

Each ad is only place x amount of times per day up to 20 (your choice) so as not to be seen by the SE's an un-natural linking scheme ie. gaining too many links too fast

You mean added to aditional sites per day if you have the vaultage to grow, or litterally only shown up to 20 times per day per selected site?

You've been very helpfull and paitent BTW. Thanks

[teamshop]

You mean added to aditional sites per day if you have the vaultage to grow, or litterally only shown up to 20 times per day per selected site?

You've been very helpfull and paitent BTW. Thanks

up to 20 ads per day per ad on additional sites or pages on the same site I believe (could be wrong on that as I haven't reached the referrals yet to see exactly where my links are placed) up until your vaultage is used up.

Currently I have 12 ads running setup for between 5 and 20 links per day and as of this morning I have 512 links placed using 282 vaultage points and about 13,500 in total vaultage to use and I have been using LV for about 2 weeks. So if you look at me as an example I have gained about 512 static links in 2 weeks

[Dominic]

Here is something else to confuse you:

I currently have 38 urls recieving links from LV.
So far I have gained 5251 permenant links.
Which cost me 8826 vaults ( I have around 30,000 vaults).

The lower pr links cost less vaults, higher pr links cost more.

Initially you only recieve pr0's and pr1's links as there are more of these available, then you get pr2's and 3's then 4's and 5's and so on.

The links you get are limmited to a maximum of 20 links from any one site, so not too many from the one c-class ip block.

It automatically excludes the sites under your own management, so you aren't linking to yourself from one of your sites in the link vault to another one of your own sites.

[noppid]

up to 20 ads per day per ad on additional sites or pages on the same site I believe (could be wrong on that as I haven't reached the referrals yet to see exactly where my links are placed) up until your vaultage is used up.

Currently I have 12 ads running setup for between 5 and 20 links per day and as of this morning I have 512 links placed using 282 vaultage points and about 13,500 in total vaultage to use and I have been using LV for about 2 weeks. So if you look at me as an example I have gained about 512 static links in 2 weeks

Nice ratio. Those are good link numbers.

And you know exactly where they are too since you set it?

I'll assume yes and I'm making you repeat. Thanks for the help. The plan seems pretty good. I'll be watching the growth.

[teamshop]

Nice ratio. Those are good link numbers.

And you know exactly where they are too since you set it?

I'll assume yes and I'm making you repeat. Thanks for the help. The plan seems pretty good. I'll be watching the growth.


You can't choose where they are placed as that is done by the system but you can see where they are placed once you reach 4 referrals (I think they are changing that) plus eventually you'll be able to see where they are via the link command in G, MSN, Yahoo etc. as they are static

[Dominic]

teamshop this feature is now available to all members. Just go to 'Organise Links' and you will find that where it lists the number of links placed and the voltage spent.. that is clickable which takes you to a list of where your links were placed.

[teamshop]

teamshop this feature is now available to all members. Just go to 'Organise Links' and you will find that where it lists the number of links placed and the voltage spent.. that is clickable which takes you to a list of where your links were placed.

Thanks Dominic,

Now I guess I should look through that info :D

[Homer]

Best in successful link builing...whatever we do ;).


Cheers


Thanks for all contributions!

[BigPhil]

teamshop this feature is now available to all members. Just go to 'Organise Links' and you will find that where it lists the number of links placed and the voltage spent.. that is clickable which takes you to a list of where your links were placed.

Brilliant I hadn't seen it. Easy to see your links now :D :D

[Homer]

I have just logged into my account at LV...it's as though I'm starting all over again. All my profiles have been wiped clean :confused:. No ads...ALL GONE :eek:. I have spoken with one other LV user who is experienceing the same thing. Anyone else??

[bloodwrath]

ya
today it defaulted to NO domains
click the down arrow and choose
ALL or what ever site u want and display links
i got an error. so maybe thier working on or have some issues
but every thing is still thier.. no worries

[rbfallon]

Working fine. Now you just have to choose the domain from the drop down menu and click "display links". Much better this way because if you have a ton of ads you don't have to download all of them everytime.

[Homer]

Yup works fine, thanks guys. Also noticed the last few days server seems more responsive. :).

[Infiniterb]

Server was pretty slow for me just a few minutes ago.

[shtirlitzz]

Have your checked out BannerShift Link Exchange Network?

This network is smaller but it is steadily growing.

And nobody is choosing links for you. You decide where to place them.
This network has a search engine in the backend.
www.bannershift.com

[Homer]

Hmm, looks interesting:
Want to get 20 quality links for free now? Have you used this network before? Is there a cost after the first 20?
And nobody is choosing links for you. This is actually a good thing if the admins are selecting links for you that are relevant. I have to say I have notice major improvements at LV.

[nevetS]

I don't have any experience with Link Vault other than seeing all the spam they posted in this forum. I'm surprised that they got much response, and I'm also surprised Shawn let them do it for so long. (if he ever did ban someone I didn't read about it - maybe they stopped on their own).

I was skeptical of them then, and I have to say that this kind of thing seals the deal against them. While there have been scammers and spammers in the DP network, I've seen DP have a quick response to get them out. Server side performance issues resulted in updates to address them as fast as possible. You can argue the effectiveness of the coop network versus some other method until you are blue in the face, but the thing you can't argue is that the DP Coop network is managed and supported extremely well - and that's something that is very hard to find when you are looking for a free service.

Even if you created an exact copy of the network, you can't duplicate the dedication of the admins nor the helpfulness of the community.

[Infiniterb]

To be fair, the LV admins didn't spam DP. It was users of the network that wanted to gain referrals.

[Homer]

I don't have any experience with Link Vault other than seeing all the spam they posted in this forum. I'm surprised that they got much response, and I'm also surprised Shawn let them do it for so long. (if he ever did ban someone I didn't read about it - maybe they stopped on their own).

I was skeptical of them then, and I have to say that this kind of thing seals the deal against them. While there have been scammers and spammers in the DP network, I've seen DP have a quick response to get them out. Server side performance issues resulted in updates to address them as fast as possible. You can argue the effectiveness of the coop network versus some other method until you are blue in the face, but the thing you can't argue is that the DP Coop network is managed and supported extremely well - and that's something that is very hard to find when you are looking for a free service.

Even if you created an exact copy of the network, you can't duplicate the dedication of the admins nor the helpfulness of the community. Boy oh boy I can't argue any of the points you make. Shawn is a gr8 guy...not to mention a genius. I too, was surprised that Shawn allowed some of the DP members BLANTANTLY ADVERTISE the LV network as they did. Not to mention any names but some got really carried away with the IN YOUR FACE LV sigs. But then again that's what makes DP what it is...the best forum online for ALL types of webmasters from novice to expert. Let it run...unsensored ;).

There will always be some that knock the DP COOP. Especially when some Ses appear (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=digital+point&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8)to be gunning the COOP down. It will come down to your choice as to what is best for you and, of course, nothing personal :).

I appreciate what Shawn has done here and really did benefit at one point with DP COOP. But right now it is my choice to move along if that is what I desire to do.

The one important point I want to make is the DP forum is second to none. I really enjoy the feedback, interaction with others, opinions, tech talk and OMG, general chat has been a recent discovery of mine that consumes me :eek:. Unless I get banned I will likely remain a DPer for life.

[nevetS]

Unless I get banned I will likely remain a DPer for life.

Too funny.

[ServerUnion]

sounds like you guys have a "man crush" on shawn.

BTW: although all of these link exchanges work on increasing web exposure, LV and DP have major difference that suite themselves to seperate situations.

[nevetS]

It didn't take long for that red rep to show up in my user control panel.

I love the comment: stop your wide statements on software you have never used.

I don't see any wide statements in my post above. I even prefaced my comment by stating all that my experience with the LV Network is all from spam posted in this forum.

I don't care if people use link vault or click exchange or any other mechanism they can to market their websites. If you can make money or at least pick up some traffic more power to you.

Do I trust linkvault? no. Will I join their network? no. There are several reasons for this - first being the fact that their marketing that I saw was all spam - whether it was affiliates or the admins, and I suspect it was both - but either way I'm not going to go use a service that markets itself that way. The second reason is that there is no indicator that they will grow consistently in the future. The third reason is that there is no indication that if they do grow consistently that they will handle that growth gracefully.

There's no "man crush" going on here, but the guy does his work consistently, he has a dedicated community which he is responsible for building, and there are plenty of people including myself that have picked up great results from his free products. Just because he allows people to speak freely in here, doesn't mean that it's right to dance around in his forum evangelizing a competitive product.

[ServerUnion]

come on man, lighten up. Dont take it personaly that there is another product. If you are complaining about spam, how about all the users the have coop links in the sigs?

It is great to hear about new developments in the industry, glad most have an open ear for it. We cannot afford to limit or discredit any product just because of the source of the marketing or development.

As far as i can tell you dont like LV just becaue, there are no hard facts as to why you dont like it.

We all would be interested to hear specific, hard fact as to the benifits and drawbacks of this product offering.

[Infiniterb]

Do I trust linkvault? no. Will I join their network? no. There are several reasons for this - first being the fact that their marketing that I saw was all spam - whether it was affiliates or the admins, and I suspect it was both - but either way I'm not going to go use a service that markets itself that way. The second reason is that there is no indicator that they will grow consistently in the future. The third reason is that there is no indication that if they do grow consistently that they will handle that growth gracefully.


And how is the marketing any different than with the CO-OP? Both have affiliate codes that grant the user who referred someone to the network a bonus in either weight or features (or both). I remember when everyone had a co-op referral link in their sig here (I did too). Some people market things differently than others.

There was also no indicator with the co-op that they would grow consistently. They were the only game in town in the past, and people figured they'd give it a try.

As far as handling growth gracefully...I don't see what that has anything to do with...anything. It sounds to me like you really don't know how the network works and are basing what you know of the network on the forum signatures of others. I don't personally use the network anymore because of their hardware issues (and at one point DP would have been in that same boat if it weren't for donations), however I may go back at some point.

[Homer]

I am somewhere in the middle of ServerUnion and nevetS
It is great to hear about new developments in the industry, glad most have an open ear for it. We cannot afford to limit or discredit any product just because of the source of the marketing or development. I agree, hence the reason for this post.
Do I trust linkvault? no. Will I join their network? no. There are several reasons for this - first being the fact that their marketing that I saw was all spam - whether it was affiliates or the admins, and I suspect it was both - but either way I'm not going to go use a service that markets itself that way. The second reason is that there is no indicator that they will grow consistently in the future. The third reason is that there is no indication that if they do grow consistently that they will handle that growth gracefully. Valid points, but there are associated (calculated) risks with any seo tactic we choose to employ. At the end of the day we are talking about 'rotating' vs 'static' links and it's your judgement call.
While there have been scammers and spammers in the DP network, I've seen DP have a quick response to get them out I agree that some DP members went overboard with "The big bright Red Sigs", but the mods allowed it. I don't think it was intended spam but rather other coop's just trying to get referal bonuses. That's what I enjoy about DP as a community.

No, I am not into hairy asses ServerUnion :eek: ;)

[noppid]

They're baaaack.

[ServerUnion]

I have sites that use co-op and sites that use LV, links seem to increase for both.

The issue I have with any conversation of this sort is when people stay away from the facts of the outcome and lean toward "I just dont like it" with no reason.

What I have found is that when people move away from the facts and stick to opinions, that means that there are no facts to make the choice and personal preference will come into play.

as stated, the first question is if you feel static or rotating links are the best for your SEO strategies...

[noppid]

I have sites that use co-op and sites that use LV, links seem to increase for both.

The issue I have with any conversation of this sort is when people stay away from the facts of the outcome and lean toward "I just dont like it" with no reason.

What I have found is that when people move away from the facts and stick to opinions, that means that there are no facts to make the choice and personal preference will come into play.

as stated, the first question is if you feel static or rotating links are the best for your SEO strategies...


Maybe they know the owners past and they have a bad reputation? Saying they don't like it and moving on would be polite then.

I'm not saying it's true, but it's to be considered.

So let me ask, who is the owner and staff? What sites do they run? Where do they hang out? What nicknames did they use in the past? Can we get a little background?

[Homer]

noppid: I have done some research on the faces behind LV. They are very committed to making this work and are constantly updating user CP for the better. There main consultant is 'webby' who I understand is one of the few real SEO masters left on this planet ;).

The forum names of the main admins are SOX and SENSEI. Both seem willing to listen and grow with their network. Time will tell...results are all that counts. So far I can't find ANY links from them showing using link: command. I joined 11 Apr 2005. LV shows I have over 10,000 static links pointing to me. Their system allows you to see these links so you know they are there. There must be some kind on link sandbox for static links :confused:. In any case I am going on my 3rd month of link building with them.

At the end of next month I will assess again. <shrug>

[noppid]

That's cool info. Thanks.

[webinv]

I use Link-Vault as well and some of the sites you get listed on are on the same domain and just a different page. That doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't each link pointing to your site come from a different domain for optimal effect?

Otherwise, it is a great service and the more referrals you get the better. Maybe we could setup a link vault exchange between forum members to bost our VAULTAGE.

-Jon

[teamshop]

I use Link-Vault as well and some of the sites you get listed on are on the same domain and just a different page. That doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't each link pointing to your site come from a different domain for optimal effect?
-Jon

While that would be the perfect scenario, one link per domain is just not possible at this point in their development. You would only have the opportunity to place a much smaller amount of links due the number of sites in the network and then you'd have people complaining that they weren't placing enough links. It's still early in the game and if you prefer static links over rotating links, they are one of the better options out there and they seem to be dedicated to making a success of the program to this point.

[digidogstudios]

oh wow cry me a river dude

success means patyience, so what their not perfect now, but neither is coop - sur eyou get traffic from coop but its not static so the value is split in half.

stop crying and bitching about it, instead why dotn u go to LV forums and make suggestions of improvements ina polite way? im sure coop was just as unprofessional when it started, but it sure got better and i bet most of the improvements were due to constructive critiscism

[ServerUnion]

oh wow cry me a river dude

success means patyience, so what their not perfect now, but neither is coop - sur eyou get traffic from coop but its not static so the value is split in half.

stop crying and bitching about it, instead why dotn u go to LV forums and make suggestions of improvements ina polite way? im sure coop was just as unprofessional when it started, but it sure got better and i bet most of the improvements were due to constructive critiscism

unprofessional? Are you talking about yourpost? have not seen any issue with professionalism.

[Homer]

im sure coop was just as unprofessional when it started, but it sure got better and i bet most of the improvements were due to constructive critiscism These cats are as professional as they can be with a rapidly expanding network.
Side Note: Has anyone thought to assess the value of linkbacks lately? In light of what seems to be going on with some se's (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=19524&highlight=yahoo+upddate)? I can see lots of links out there BUT nothing with link: command.:confused: almost 3 months have gone by
I use Link-Vault as well and some of the sites you get listed on are on the same domain and just a different page. That doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't each link pointing to your site come from a different domain for optimal effectI personally have found quite a few crap links, (or lack thereof) reported it and is was dealt with. But it's alot of policing IMO.

I have submitted links that were not yet indexed and was denied, but I continue to see questionable link backs...eg no pr, made for adsense, link pages. This may sound a little selfish and ungrateful but I am bringing nothing but good quality to the table. That said, I do appreciate the time effort and energy these folks have put into it. Perhaps more of the members should be proactive in policing.:cool:

PS: digidogstudios, you can bitch here if yu want...if that's what ails you ;)

[noppid]

Wow I'm getting some popcorn, this is fun, there must be a conspiracy! LMAO

[ChinaNick]

Yep.. LV has quite a number of crappy pages, but I personally don't care much about it. There are a very large number of affiliate sites in LV, most of which get spidered rarely and so links won't show up soon. The pages I link to seem to be sort of OK (Yes, some are affiliate sites, not perfect, but not too bad either).

The good point is - with high quality, content-rich sites you get good vaultage even if the sites are very small. I've been experimenting with LV and put in two PR4 sites with total 22 PR4 and 65 PR3 pages chached (only cached pages count in LV), which get me around 3,000 of their 'vaults'. This has so far resulted in 2,400 IBL's and consumes 75% of those vaults. Most IBLs are from rubbish pages, but they don't cost much, about 0.3 vaults each. The stats are not quite complete, but so far I counted 4 PR5, 34 PR4 and around 120 PR3 IBLs from LV, plus a few PR2, about 200 PR1, and 1,500 PR0's (I haven't looked at all links as I don't really have the time). From this, it seems like a good deal, I don't think the many PR0 links are a problem, as at least I get enough PR3 - 5 links to make it worthwile. I didn't yet see major changes in G SERPs as the sites are still in the sandbox, Y & MSN seem to be better and increasing most of the time. It does take much longer to have an effect than the coop.

[RectangleMan]

I signed up for LV about 2 weeks ago. It can be very confusing but as you begin to understand it you realize it's genious. I think everyone should sign up and add a site or two. This is something you have to experience to really understand. It will take you about a week before you start to understand everything but now I check my LV even more than my adsense. I love watching my vaultage rise and I just keep adding sites and getting more and more links. It's amazingly easy. I have a site with 250 links built up already. Imagine how much work it would have been contacting webmasters trying to get them to link. Some links are worthless but some are very good. Also links do not expire. As long as there is vaultage and the person does not remove the code your link stays. This is perfect for SEO.

Also you start off with crappy PR0 sites but eventually you can get PR5 ,PR6 and some have reported PR7 links now.

LV is NOT for the impatient. If you are willing to give it a try you will be rewarded but I think the return you may not truely see for months. This is why I encourage you to get in now. LV is gonna take off big time. It's barely a buzz word in certain forums but give it time and everyone will be placing the code.

[ferret77]

I put some new sites in its pretty cool

[Homer]

I signed up for LV about 2 weeks ago. It can be very confusing but as you begin to understand it you realize it's genious. I think everyone should sign up and add a site or two. This is something you have to experience to really understand. It will take you about a week before you start to understand everything but now I check my LV even more than my adsense. I love watching my vaultage rise and I just keep adding sites and getting more and more links. It's amazingly easy. I have a site with 250 links built up already. Imagine how much work it would have been contacting webmasters trying to get them to link. Some links are worthless but some are very good. Also links do not expire. As long as there is vaultage and the person does not remove the code your link stays. This is perfect for SEO.

Also you start off with crappy PR0 sites but eventually you can get PR5 ,PR6 and some have reported PR7 links now.

LV is NOT for the impatient. If you are willing to give it a try you will be rewarded but I think the return you may not truely see for months. This is why I encourage you to get in now. LV is gonna take off big time. It's barely a buzz word in certain forums but give it time and everyone will be placing the code.
Welcome to DP. Nice post. I agree with you now. After yesterday's PR update...OMG...the proof is in the pudding. Patience in for doctors I,ve always thought! But you are correct in this case, BE PATIENT AND YOU SHALL SEE.
BTW, I also noticed a few DP ads in LV pointing to keyword tracker:cool:.

[Dominic]

It's limited to a maximum of 20 links from the same domain. So, not problem there.

I use Link-Vault as well and some of the sites you get listed on are on the same domain and just a different page. That doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't each link pointing to your site come from a different domain for optimal effect?

Otherwise, it is a great service and the more referrals you get the better.

[ferret77]

20 links from one domain is sort of a lot, but i guess it insures one is findable

[Dominic]

I've got a ton of links from LV and haven't noticed the same domain sending me 20 links yet. Most I tend to notice are max of 7 from the one site... but 20 is a good default maximum. I'm really against sitewides so I'm happy with the cap.

[ferret77]

i thought it might be five, because when you look at the links placed it groups them in 5

[eduardomaio]

It's 5 to a link, and 20 to a domain...

domain.com gets 5 links
domain.com/gadgets.php gets 5 links
domain.com/widgets.php gets 5 links
domain.com/sumthin.php gets 5 links

Here you go, 20 links to one domain...

I've maxxed out my vaultage, got 2471 links, some of them are PR6. Got 3 #1 places, a #2, a #3, a #7, a #9 and two #15...

It's working for me better than the Coop so I'm sticking with it. Also, I'm already a subscriber, because of it my montlhy revenue went up about 50% so its worth it!

Give it a try, get a domain there that is cached, add a few links and try it for a month or two and you will see the results. I've done it and I'm really happy with it.

[Homer]

Yep, I am seeing some definate increase in serps now. I can deal with server issues that have been a major pain in the ass over the past few days, as long as I am seeing improvement! I have also topped out my vaultage and had to add more accounts :cool:.

[Homer]

Does anyone know what's up with LV? Servers have been down since Friday night, my sites are hanging, can't login to LV acct and their site is down :(.

This weekend traffic and AS way down as a result!

Are they doing upgrades or are they overloaded again?

[yfs1]

An LV representative posted here this morning that all those using LV will be getting an email explaining the current situation.

[yfs1]

Speaking of the email - This just came in

Link Vault Status

We have received an email from our server hosts in Port Arthur, Texas.

They have told us that they have had no power since Hurricane Rita hit the area on Friday. The flooding around the area has not damaged any of the servers that they supply us so that means all our servers and data are ok.

They have an emergency generator that they use when they lose power. However this generator runs on gasoline and has ran out during the storm. They are currently trying to get a supply of gasoline from the only available working gas station in the area. They have said if they manage to get gasoline they will have the power back to the servers ASAP.

The worst case scenario is that they do not manage to get some gasoline and cannot get power back to the servers. They are estimating it could be up to 14 days until the power lines are repaired and stable.

We will keep you all updated on the situation with the servers.

We would like to thank you for your patience on this unfortunate matter.

The Link Vault Team

[Homer]

That is really unfortunate :(. I wonder why there was no plan B :confused:. It's not like we didn't know it was coming and where it was hitting. Don't get me wrong mother nature in nasty sometimes but this could have been avoided, no? There were people here at DP (like Nintendo) giving ample warning to move your hosting if you were on these servers?

So now all LV paid members lose there link presence for up to 14 days? Forgive me for suggesting this but doesn't this potentionally defeat the purpose?

[Dominic]

Not at all. The links placed on people's sites are still there and haven't moved anywhere so no problems.

The only inconvenience having the servers offline is you can't update or change your campaign settings and no new links are placed during the interim.

Remember, this isn't just moving a website - it's moving a large database, not so simple and not really needed in this case. The data is fine, all links are still where they are supposed to be.

They let people know in the forums, and on the news page of what would happen in advance and have updated everyone since. I'm happy with that.

[Homer]

Not at all. The links placed on people's sites are still there and haven't moved anywhere so no problems.

The only inconvenience having the servers offline is you can't update or change your campaign settings and no new links are placed during the interim.

Remember, this isn't just moving a website - it's moving a large database, not so simple and not really needed in this case. The data is fine, all links are still where they are supposed to be.

They let people know in the forums, and on the news page of what would happen in advance and have updated everyone since. I'm happy with that.
Thanks Domenic. The links are showing only on some of my pages. Some of my other pages are spiratically hanging. I fear, if other webmasters are experiencing the same thing they may remove our links to avoid the hang time! Are you experiencing the 1-2 minute load time on some of your pages, Domenic? For me it seems to have improved but on the weekend my sites grinded to a halt at one point, then up then down.

So I understand what your saying the DB of LV users is on one server and the user admin is on another? If that's the case why are my sites hanging?

[TheHoff]

Thanks Domenic. The links are showing only on some of my pages. Some of my other pages are spiratically hanging. I fear, if other webmasters are experiencing the same thing they may remove our links to avoid the hang time! Are you experiencing the 1-2 minute load time on some of your pages, Domenic? For me it seems to have improved but on the weekend my sites grinded to a halt at one point, then up then down.

So I understand what your saying the DB of LV users is on one server and the user admin is on another? If that's the case why are my sites hanging?

None of my sites are hanging and all links are present; it may be your server/host. I don't believe there is any communication between site and LV server just for a page load.

[Homer]

Thanks VB, yah today the links are present on the pages that I have checked and load time seems good now. I have also rec'd an email this AM from LV.
Link Vault Status

We have received an email from our server hosts in Port Arthur, Texas.

They have told us that they have had no power since Hurricane Rita hit the area on Friday. The flooding around the area has not damaged any of the servers that they supply us so that means all our servers and data are ok.

They have an emergency generator that they use when they lose power. However this generator runs on gasoline and has ran out during the storm. They are currently trying to get a supply of gasoline from the only available working gas station in the area. They have said if they manage to get gasoline they will have the power back to the servers ASAP.

The worst case scenario is that they do not manage to get some gasoline and cannot get power back to the servers. They are estimating it could be up to 14 days until the power lines are repaired and stable.

We will keep you all updated on the situation with the servers.

We would like to thank you for your patience on this unfortunate matter.

The Link Vault Team Yes this is unfortunate and I am happy with this situation as I understand it now! I am going to check with my host to see why the hang time :confused:. If no other LV users were reporting this then it has to be my server, I agree!

[Dominic]

None of my sites are hanging and all links are present; it may be your server/host. I don't believe there is any communication between site and LV server just for a page load.

Homer I think vBMechanic has pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

The information about what LV links to place on your pages is stored in a file on your site (one you had to add when installing LV). That is where the link info is called from. So as mentioned, instead of querying the LV server when a page loads, the code in your page query's this file on your server with the list of your links in it. So your pages don't consult the LV server to display links.

[Cyclops]

Ok it's six months down the track...LV has had time to sort out the problems mentioned in this thread.

So what's the consensus, how's LV doing ?

[Dominic]

Something about the 'news' section at Link Vault (http://www.link-vault.com/?ss=954) is they do tend to let everyone know what little bug fixes they are doing as they go or what improvements they are making.

It's all very out there and open in that regard, so have a read of the news section and if you understand programming stuff that will probably help you interpret some of it.

A lot of people said the coop would fizzle and die, a lot of people said link vault would fizzle and die. To date neither has fizzled and both have grown (while remaining completely unique and different).

There are some interesting ideas kicking around the private forums at Link Vault at the moment... worth a look.

[Homer]

Ok it's six months down the track...LV has had time to sort out the problems mentioned in this thread.

So what's the consensus, how's LV doing ?
Well the system, in theory is good. However, I think what lacks is the ability to be proactive from the creator's perspective. Once we all agree that this is a tool intended to help your rankings along then we have to say how are we tweaking this tool to, at least, fend off the cat(G). What I mean is Google has aggresively gone after this and other 'link schemes'.

I still use this tool, but not much...for deep linking on a few small sites it seems to still have results but as far as anything significant, nothing (some may say even worst). Since Jagger 1 I am convinced, without tweaking, LV and ALL others are going to eventually be rendered useless. Relevance and quality of linking is a big issue now with Google and I think that's where LV and others need to drastically improve, IMO.