Forced to take a site down :O

[soapbath]

I am seeking advice. As of today (24th May 2005) my school has issued the following statment to me

"We demand that you take down the follow website located at http://www.antiblock.tk or we will be taking other action"

Can they do this? Can they activly force me to take down a website of which was created outside of school and with no copyright content that they own. (I Live in UK)

[TommyD]

Mind if I ask what is 'their' issue?

tom

[soapbath]

Its a site to get past School blocks, Well, there issue is valid but don't I have a right?

[mcfox]

I get a redirect to a domain site which says dontblock.tk is available.

[soapbath]

Oops. Sorry, http://www.antiblock.tk

[yfs1]

How is a school even involved?!?! :confused:

I don't get the connection

[Design Agent]

Yeah, I am a little confused - want to expplain in more detail? What did they say? what is the purpose of your site exactly?

[soapbath]

Its a Proxy server, gets past school internet blocks, it was ment for people to use and the school have good involved as people are using it at the school.

[yfs1]

Just to be clear, is it your school that is asking for it to be taken down

[soapbath]

Yeah, indeed.

[dct]

I'd guess the school blocks certain outbound internet activity that site could be used to circumvent it. I can't see them being able to take action against the site but if yur a pupil at the school then other school rules may apply to you as an individual. I want to know what legal action you take against teachers that visit the site :D

Edit: too slow (again) soapbox beat me to it

[yfs1]

but if yur a pupil at the school then other school rules may apply to you as an individual. :D

That is my guess and I think there is more to this than just a random school asking for it to be taken down

[TommyD]

Hmmmm......

Even if they have an issue, doesn't seem excessive to demand a site be taken down.

Heck, I would ignore the letter.

DISCLAIMER: NOT A LAWYER

tom

[soapbath]

Heh, none. Its to use againts them if they are going to be bitchs. My point is, can they decide what I do out of school? (Edit: I really don't want to take this down, it earns me $7 in advertise per a day

[lorien1973]

If the site is hosted on school computers -- their network, their rules as to what is hosted there. If you want a site like this, you should host it outside of the school's realm of authority.

[yfs1]

Even if they have an issue, doesn't seem excessive to demand a site be taken down.

Heck, I would ignore the letter.


I suspect tommy that he is asking other kids in school to use it for purposes that the school is not happy with. Normal legalities won't apply in this case as they don't need the law behind them to suspend you.

I would find out exactly why they want it removed and NOT ignore it

[soapbath]

It is hosted outside of the school, its on my servers.

[soapbath]

I would find out exactly why they want it removed and NOT ignore it

This I don't know.

[TommyD]

OPPS,

I posted and didn't notice it was a school you are attending.

Yes, either get rid of the site, or transfer it to someone not part of the school system. Since most school have rules of conduct, I would suspect you are in violation.

DISCLAIMER: NOTA LAWYER

tom

[yfs1]

Heh, none. Its to use againts them if they are going to be bitchs. My point is, can they decide what I do out of school? (Edit: I really don't want to take this down, it earns me $7 in advertise per a day

If you want to hold your ground and sit out a suspension then sue them, thats your business but it will cost you a lot more than $7 a day.

I still mantain that a school doesn't ask you to take a site down if you arent using it for (or asking others to) activities that are against the schools rules.

Why jeopardize your education for $7 a day?

[Design Agent]

It can always be sold to someone who isn't at the school - removing all issues. I guess.

[dct]

I think it's pretty obvious why they want it removed, if I was in you position I would take it down, apologise and then start it again with a different domain and don't advertise the fact it has anything to do with you :D

[soapbath]

But I just see it as wrong that they are demanding I take down a site which was not created againts the school.

TommyD, Its not on the school system.

dct: Its already been remade by other people on other servers.

[yfs1]

Also learn a lesson from this...Don't Sh*t where you eat

If you design something like this at home, market it elsewhere. Not at your own school where you can be suspended for chewing gum.

[dct]

But I just see it as wrong that they are demanding I take down a site which was not created againts the school.

TommyD, Its not on the school system.
Life ain't fair, do they teach you nothing in school :p

[lorien1973]

If the site is not hosted on school servers, they cannot "demand" anything.

I demand amazon.com be taken down, they get way more sales than I do and I'm miffed!

[soapbath]

yfs1, It was not maketed, it has found its way into the system by forums that my school mates must visited.

[Design Agent]

+ Dont forget to take off that hoodie too ;)

[yfs1]

Like I said, you may be legally in the right but whats that get you?

You are a smart girl, college and continued education should be on your mind. Not making $7 at the expense of your education.

[soapbath]

$7 which may I add goes to charity, as does most of the money I make :P. But okey im starting to see your point.

[caroline]

They technically have no right to force you to shut down the site, but they could make your life difficult at school, couldn't they?

[TommyD]

You need to learn how to pick your battles.

DISCLAIMER: NOT A PHYLOSOPHER

Tom

[NetMidWest]

Been down to your local library lately? Highly filtered in KC, there seems to be a manual blocking of sites... someone posts a f-bomb in a forum, and some old lady decides you can't visit the entire domain.

This is a useful tool, school or not.

Get your folks involved, if they agree with you. They will be treated as intelligent adults, not ignorant children to be bullied.

[Old Welsh Guy]

Sorry guys but you are muddying the waters on this issue. There are 2 issues here, and we appear to be answering them at the same time.

This chap is a pupil at a school, he has a site that is actively promoting and therefore advocating pupils in the education system bypass the very security that is put in place to protect them. Sorry but if you live in my house, you live by my rules!

Case 1: can they deman he remove the site?

case2: can the school punish him for not doing so.

In the second case the answer is bluntly that the school are within their rights to expel him from school because of his actions. The LAW allows people to be punished if their actions outside of a school or place of work impacts on that school or place of work.

Are they within their rights to demand it be taken down? NO legally if the information is not illegal, then they do not. I suspect though that we have not had the full story, and that the letter demanded that he took the site down, or face the consequences. In this case that is likely to be a suspension/expulsion!

[vord]

I'm with the Welsh bloke.

Schools run on their own rules. Forget the law. You annoy them - they suspend you.

Best thing to do would be to tell them you are no longer running that site. Doesn't mean you can't run the site anymore, just transfer it to some other name and make it not traceable back to you.

Then apologise to them, and tell them you've reaslised the errors of your ways. Be meek. Explain that you would have closed it down, but it was worth money so you sold it. Tell them you sold it to VORD if they ask.
Really it works.

And don't promote it publicly in the school. From the way it you've promoted it so well the teachers have found out you won't have to.

[jlawrence]

I'll stick my 2 peneth in here.

Don't take the site down and seek legal advise.

This isn't a lot different to what a company I used to work for tried.
Many companies think that because you're contracted to them for 8 hours per day, that they can tell you what you can and can't do during the other 16 hours. No they f'in can't and if you signed a contract that says they can then you need your head seeing to.
Schools seem to be trying to go down the same route.
I have many many issues with the schooling system in the UK, and the legal requirement to send my child to school yet a school can arbitarily decide to exclude any child from their school (my child is only 2 years old atm so I'm not really affected yet) even because they've decided to go on strike for the day. Lord I hope I'm rolling in it when my child has to go to school.

Get legal advise. Then assuming the legal advise is in your favour, write up a press release and send a copy to the school (without sending it anywhere else). In this day and age, a school's reputation is everything and imagine what publicity a school (any school) will get when people start hearing, reading in the papers, viewing on the TV and Internet, that the school doesn't support creative thinking. Be prepared to take some serious s**t though. The establishment don't like people who rock the boat, and schools are part of the establishment.
Above all, be prepared to follow the legal advise you get. If they say you don't have a leg to stand on then back peddle fast.

If your school is stupid enough to make an issue of this then that's their problem, it could quite literally destroy any reputation they have (if the press release is worded correctly) and that could destroy intake numbers which in turn affects funding, sponsorship etc etc.

At the end of the day it's your call, but I dispise anyone (school, company, or whoever - with the exception of SWMBO) who tells me what I can do in my time. And yes, I have threatened to walk out of jobs in the past over this - if you're good at your job they will back down. It's easier now that I work for myself as I get a big say as to what's written in the contracts.

note: if you are a minor, then clear everything through your parents first. They are legally responsible for what you do. In fact, if you're a minor then I'm not sure the school can demand that you take the site down - they may be able to demand that your parents/legal gardian take the site down.

and remember IANAL

[uca]

The main problem is that we don't really know the whole story, as someone already said.

What did your school exactly complain about?

Anyway, from what I know I would go for getting rid of the site and maybe putting it in someelse's name but very discretely.

Still, the school can make your life harder even though you don't formally run the site, but simply because you started it and that pisses them off, and they could suspect your involvement anyway.

[T0PS3O]

Why jeopardize your education for $7 a day?

Because you shouldn't bow down to rediculous requests. People have to stand up against so-called authorities.

If the site is hosted privately they can not ask you to take it down (unless it slanders the school in question or something to that effect).

Even if you were ignoring school rules and access the site (if that's the case) they can only punish you for that and still not make you take yuor site down. That's just rediculous.

Will they ask all webmasters of sites their pupils visit to take their sites down if they don't like the content? Give me a break.

Tell them you won't take it down and say sorry if you have been accessing this or other sites whilst forbidden by school rules.

[yfs1]

If you take Jlawrence's advice keep in mind the school may also get aggresive. I suspect your proxy was used to do something illegal or at the very least against school rules. Those involved may have been able to use ANY proxy service but they used yours and you can probably be directly linked to them knowing about it.

They might then argue your involvement and your press release will be met by their rebuttal which will include all the facts. I agree they will be concerned with their reputation so thats even more of a reason for them to release what the students in question were using your proxy for. They will then argue that it was made just for this purpose.

If you are willing to lose everything you have acquired and risk your future over principal (which without all the facts may not even be the case), then go for it.

[yfs1]

I have to disagree T0PS. You and I may persue a legal battle but we know the risks involved.

This is a young girl who needs to think about more than principal.

[T0PS3O]

Legal battle can be avoided IMO.

It depends on personality. If you're happy to bend over against your principles and want an easy life at school (you're probably already on their black-list now anyway) do take it down.

If you want to stand up for yourself and be a leader you don't.

Fact is, the school can not make you take the site down. If they don't want pupils to access it, they can block it with their firewall software and what not.

I'm not a lawyer either but I do know what's right and wrong.

Take whatever punishment comes at you for violating school rules if you have done anything out of order (you deserve it) but don't let them make you take down your business!

PS All this is assuming the site in itself is all fine/not attacking the school etc.

[TommyD]

I agree with yfs1.

Just the basis for the site, to bypass school filters, might not get much sympothy. I remember computer crime laws passed in the late 90's, the carrier of the information is just as guilty as the person commiting crimes with it, via a computer. Example, AT&T was just as liable for death threats made via emails that were carried over their networks, as the person making them.

Now all this is on the side of criminal law. Before it ever reaches this, other steps will have been taken, just pointing out that there is very little absolution in saying, 'hey i'm a victim here too' if you didn't take the precautions in preventing the abuse of what you built. Now toss in that you intentionally defeated steps taken by the school to 'protect' it's members, you can easily be in violation of codes of conduct for expelshion, and I wouldn't be surprised if a civil case could be reimburshment of expense when they try to 'fix' the new hole in their 'protection' your site creates.

IMHO: The message you received was 'recorded' and don't be surprised when you see it again as a form of evidence for the review of your actions if you don't act.

DISCLAIMER: NOT A LAWYER, BUT VERY PARINOID!

Tom

[Perrow]

Just a simple question, why don't the school just block his site?

Wouldn't that be much easier than this "shut your site down or else" bussiness?

ps. If the school rules says your not allowed to circumvent the blocking system then your in trouble. However you should be safe by configuring your site so that it can't be used from your school. I'm sure theres plenty of kids in other schools thats looking for this service and who would make you far more than $7 a day.

[yfs1]

I would agree that it is more about risk/reward than right/wrong. I tend to think some young people don't understand the risk part and are better off taking what they learn to create a site that earns $14 a day rather than $7

There are a lot of questions only soapbath can truly answer
1.) What was the proxy actually used for and what was your honest involvement?
2.) Was the revenue from strangers or did you have something going with these same friends
etc, etc

My only point is that you have to pick and choose your battles based on the amount of risk involved not necesarily whether you are technically right or wrong. This happens every day in business and doesn't mean you are bowing to the establishment. It just means you are looking out for #1 which has meant a high level of success for many.

I always figured if I wanted to fight every wrong with a legal battle I would be better suited to volunteering for the ACLU. In the end I just want to make money so I chose my path.

[jlawrence]

yfs1: hence why she should discuss everything with her legal guardian/parent.

I don't really care what the site/proxy was used for. Blocking access to it isn't difficult and any sys/network admin can do it without any problem.

If pupils are taught at school to abandon their principles then they will get zero respect when they enter the business world.
Principles and integrety are everything when you enter the real world (ie get a job) and this is yet another thing that doesn't get taught in schools.

Yes, the school can make life very very hard for you. But again, they again risk horrendous publicity in doing so. Many head teachers are getting much more business wise nowadays, schooling is becoming big business attracting sponsorship from major business players. Those big players will not put money into a school that gets too much embarassing publicity.
This fact begs the question: Is there something here we're not being told about ?
A school will not risk the adverse publicity over something petty - there's simply too much at stake nowadays - and if they do, then that head will not last long.

Schools need to teach business principles and one of those is integrety. If you say you're going to do something then do it. and following your principles is a big part of establishing your integrety.

[yfs1]

By the way this whole thread reminds me of War Games when he changes his grades using the school computer system (or was that Ferris Bueller's Day Off and attendance records) :confused: ;)

[T0PS3O]

Yfs1, I agree about 'picking' your fights. It would be a waste of time to fight all of them. Sometimes it's best to 'not be bothered' and cut your losses.

But this is a school/government body (crooks themselves in many regards) telling a talented person they can not exercise their talent even though (seemingly - depending on full story) there's nothing illegal about it. That's what pisses me off.

[yfs1]

You do know we are going to see an Associated Press story any day now where some schoolgirl in the UK was caught laundering money gained through Drug Proceeds through her School Computer system :p

[Perrow]

You do know we are going to see an Associated Press story any day now where some schoolgirl in the UK was caught laundering money gained through Drug Proceeds through her School Computer system :p
Yeah, but I'm betting she'll need some help hiding the money til she gets out again :D

[jlawrence]

Any authority can tell you what you can and can't do. This is the basis that our society is founded on.
But those authorities have to follow written procedures and written rules and it is those procedures and rules that specify what they can and can't demand of you.
Rules and regulations in schools are getting better and better, they had to - in years gone by, you could have run and entire fleet of busses through school rules which in todays litegious society simply wasn't good enough.

[nevetS]

This is a very serious issue. First and foremost, get your parents involved. If your parents agree with the school you won't get past first base in trying to fight this thing. The school is well within their authority in asking you to take the site down. Forcing you to take the site down is a different level, and the problems that can occur if they want to force you to take the site down are probably more than you are willing to endure.

When you are young, principal is everything. I'm still very hardnosed about fighting for what is right and it has cost me plenty of money over the years. If you try to fight them in court, you must be prepared to do so. I lost my first lawsuit in summary judgement because I didn't understand the system - at a cost to me of nearly thirty thousand dollars. And I never even got to tell my side or have my day in court.

If you are considering fighting this, let them know in writing. A letter to the effect of "This request is unusual and shocking. I require time to fully grasp the issues involved and to consult others for advice on what to do. I would also like a full explanation as to the reasoning behind your request and specifically what further actions you are considering. In any case, I will not come to a decision until at least thirty days from now."

At this point, everything should be in writing.

Understand that your classmates have already sold you out, and others will in the future. Any hope of maintaining any secrecy surrounding your activities on the site, or your in school marketing are gone. If they haven't done it on their own, their parents will make them. Consider also that even if you have done nothing to market this within the school, it's possible and even likely that someone will say that you have - either because they don't like you, or because the administration wants someone to say it and someone will see the opportunity to save their own rear end.

I'm with yfs1 - the best idea is to comply with their request.

I certainly see the other side, and depending on the kind of person you are, fighting this could provide a valuable learning experience - but you absolutely must understand the costs involved. This is new territory for a lot of schools. The things that they will do in response to a fight are unknown, and that is always the worst case. If you know what they will do, you can strategize. At this point, you don't know if you are facing suspension, detention, a drop in grades, an expulsion, a legal battle, an ethics board review, or what.

As a parent, I would be very angry that my childs educational institution is making vague and ominous threats without discussing anything with me or my child beforehand.

Come up with a list of reasons that this request is unreasonable for discussion with your parents and the school. You are going to have to discuss the site with them regardless of whether or not you close it down right now.

1) Similar sites are available everywhere. Closing my site down does nothing to protect the schools interest.
2) The site is for charity. You are effectively taking money away from a good cause.
3) The site has users outside the school. There is a legitimate need to maintain the site.
4) The site does nothing illegal. In fact proxies are standardized and there are similar commercial solutions available.
5) etc. etc.

When you present them with a good list, they will at least know that you have thought things through. It's much better than leaving the impression that you created this site to circumvent the school's authority to monitor web sites.

Another idea is to ask them what they are trying to accomplish. If they are trying to prevent kids from accessing proxy sites, suggest alternatives to trying to shut sites like yours down.

[jlawrence]

yfs1: and you know that the press are going to say she was following advise gained for shady characters on the internet with strange online names :)

[yfs1]

Excelent post Nevets. That is probably the best summary I have seen yet. I have to say I am actually extremely curious now about your first lawsuit. In a perfect system the person who is right would win but since its not perfect any company that wants to stay in businees has to evaluate their own risk/reward.

Some would gladly spend the 30k to make a point. Others would balk at the idea.

Good Stuff

[jlawrence]

yfs1: you should know by now, it's the person you buys the best lawyer that stands the best chance of winning.

[jlawrence]

I agree with nevetS that from now on, everything should be in writing with the school.
Personally I would think seriously before giving in to bullying tactics from any authority.

SoapBath:
You know your way around the internet - that I know - and I'm willing to put money on the fact that the school will be well aware of that as well.
Perhaps the school in question would like a demonstration of the power of online advertisement and the amount of damage that can be caused to reputations by using the internet as an advertising medium.

Your school can and will tell you what you can do on their premises (whilst you're under their duty of care) they cannot and should not be allowed to place restrictions on what you do outside of their time - with the exception of homework ;).

Discuss it with your parents, as NevetS said, put forward a reasoned case to them. If your parents back you, then have them take legal advise on your behalf - it's better that a legal rep sends a letter telling the school to get f*****d rather than you doing it yourself :). Your legal rep would word the letter in much better language than I'd use :D

[nevetS]

I suppose I could share here. It can help drive home the point that you better be prepared for the consequences.

I was employed by a company that dramatically underpaid me. I was billing close to 500K in services and was getting paid just a fraction of that. A year and a half into working for them, they forced me to sign a contract that said i would pay them for training expenses if I quit within two years. I put off signing as long as I could, but in the end I caved and I never should have. They started to treat me terribly - my most memorable moment was working 24 hours on Labor Day and getting yelled at for taking an hour to go home and shower.

Shortly after that, another company offered to double my salary. I took the job and told the first company to take a hike. They sued. Of course, they sued me out of state, and they demanded an absurd amount of expenses - like travel expenses for projects I worked and billed for - and they were reimbursed for by the client. They also inflated the costs of training classes, because they got over a 50% discount and demanded reimbursement for the retail cost.

I wrote out my side of the story in my court responses, but I neglected to get depositions or provide real evidence beyond my own word. They moved for summary judgement and won it without me even being able to argue against it. Looking back, I could have appealed the decision, but it would have been a fruitless venture because I would have made other mistakes down the road.

I settled post-judgement under the threat of bankruptcy for about 5K less than the judgement and made payments for 4 years. In the end, I was making payments to the company who hired me away because they ended up buying the company I left. (I had since gone independent). Needless to say, I'm still very bitter - and I know a lot more about legal issues these days. (and I finally have a lawyer on retainer).

In the end, being the primary developer behind our nations revamped 9-1-1 system, I literally would have made more money that year working at McDonald's.

[jlawrence]

Ouch, well you live and learn.
Companies will and do get away with near enough whatever they want with their employees. Most companies have their employees by the balls and they know it. They can and often do have ridiculous contracts and employees sign them simply because they can't afford not to.

Many people will just blindly sign a contract - at least you had the common sense to read it first.

[nevetS]

A couple of important background notes are:

1) The company I worked for was HQ'ed in Colorado. I live and worked primarily in California - employment law in California did not apply. Colorado employment laws heavily favor businesses whereas in California they favor employees.
2) I was just a kid with MS Word and findlaw. Paying for a lawyer would have literally cost me 10 grand and those I consulted said my case was defendable, but I stood a very good chance of losing, even with strong representation.
3) Being an out of state court, I couldn't go down and talk with the court clerk to get assistance. If I had been local, more than likely they would have taken pity on me and at least explained the deadlines and requirements for me to defend myself.
4) The threat of appeal and the potential bankruptcy can always get a judgement reduced via settlement.

(sorry to hijack the thread. I get worked up every time I think about this case)

[jlawrence]

I wouldn't consider it hijacking the thread. Taking the leagal road should imho opinion be the last couse of action - a couple of well worded threats can often change the course of a potential problem and avert unecessary and expensive court costs. Talking about the implications (whether you lose or win) of court action is valid in this thread.

But, back to the matter at hand.
Discuss it with your parents, you'd be either extremely brave or extremely foolish to take any action without their backing. If you think school can give you a hard time, imagine what you'd get a home if you went against your parents wishes.
You can allways find another school - you will never replace your parents.

[T0PS3O]

Discuss it with your parents, you'd be either extremely brave or extremely foolish to take any action without their backing.

If I remember correctly from other threads, this is a bit of an issue.

[yfs1]

A couple of important background notes are:

1) The company I worked for was HQ'ed in Colorado. I live and worked primarily in California - employment law in California did not apply.

This is a MAJOR issue and is further complicated when it gets international. I also don't think its off topic as Soapbath has gotten a lot of advice and this topic in general is always interesting to me.

I am still learning a lot about the legal system over here as it is a lot more involved when it comes to legal costs and who is actually responsible for them after the case is ruled on. The American system is pretty cut in dry in that respect as you can find yourself bankrupt even if you win.

To me that is BS and is the real problem.

[mcfox]

Obviously, there is more to this than we know about. Having said that, and previous advice notwithstanding, it would be a good idea to write to the school and ask them to clarify the reasons why they feel it is appropriate to demand you take the site down.

My own guess is that the proxy server is being used to circumvent pre-existing rules and regulations regarding internet access from within the school and is perhaps being used outwith the school to attempt to gain access to the school systems.

[marcel]

I've been in your shoes over similar matters...

If you purposely created a system, tool or device that lets you circumvent their rules and standards, Be HAPPY they haven't kicked ya out of school.

Basically, you using inside school information to "hack" and get access to banned material.

Maybe that definition is incorrect, but in the eyes of the public it's not.

And besides, the energy , emotion and dedication it will take to fight this all the way to the supreme court of whatever could be used in better ways.

Like improving your money making ecommerce skills...

[NetMidWest]

If you have ever worked on the site from the school, including checking email on the domain, they may have a case. Working on it during school hours using school property is the culpable point. I remember a kid who shoplifted from the store on lunch, almost got caught, and ran from the store (with the goods) back to school. Shortly thereafter, the police showed up and that student was suspended for illegal conduct during school hours, although it was lunch and off-campus.

By working on it during school hours, and considering the point of the site (bypassing filters) combined, they would have a strong case.

But I don't understand why they don't just block it... Sounds like a control game, to me.

Put up a disclaimer:

Using this site may violate TOS for your connection, library, school, may be illegal, etc.

Then offer to show them how to block your site manually, since it seems they are unable to do so.

They seem to be dependent on automatic software, and it does not work 100% of the time. I know of porn sites that look clean to anyone, pass filters okay, but do not filter because the software cannot actually view and judge the pics. They do crappy in the search engines, but offline marketing works wonders with all the mags available out there.

Hell, they might even thank you.

Be sure to bill them the going rate for any further help, though. :D

[soapbath]

Thanks alot, lots of views here and it has helped me alot. Im sure it will also help other people. I am going to pass the site onto someone else so I don't own it anymore, but I will not say sorry for creating it.

[jlawrence]

And if you do help them, the going rate for good network people in the UK is actually quite high. Especially when you take into consideration call out fees etc etc.
I regularly used to use my systems to bypass any and every filter they tried to put in place ( at a previous place of work ). They knew it was being done, but proof is another matter :)
Also, I was very very good at the job I was doing at the time - and they knew damn well I could double or treble my wage by moving to a competiter, so I guess they didn't try too hard.
But encryption is everything - try proving what that ssl connection was being use for.

To me it sounds like your school either a) uses crappy firewalls, or b) the admin doesn't know how to config them.
There is imho absolutely no excuse for ignorance when you connect a LAN to the 'net. Especially in the school arena. They have a 'duty of care' and if their systems aren't capable of stopping someone bypassing the firewalls by using a simple proxy (even if they do something unusual like encapsulating http within dns requests) then they are failing in that 'duty of care'.
The problem with schools is that the often give the network admin/maintainer job to a teacher or they can't pay what is required for good people.

I once went for an interview at a school for a network manager job, interview went well and I got offered the job there and then (even though they still have 5 more people to interview), the governers; representative and the school head made me an offer and then nearly had a heart attack when I told them how much they'd have to increase it by before I'd even consider it - I required over 3 times what they had the budget for.
Schools need to realise that they need to pay backroom staff realistic wages if they want good staff.
The sooner they realise that - or there is an big competent outsource system put in place - the better IMO.

[soapbath]

Just a update. I think I can say, due to you guys I have won :). Today the school has said sorry and offered me a gift vocher of £20 to cover loss. I put the points accrossed that you guys said and boya!

[yfs1]

Glad to hear you didn't get into any real trouble over the whole thing ;)

[dct]

Good for you soapbath, don't you just love it when a thread has a happy ending :D

[marcel]

Good for you soapbath, don't you just love it when a thread has a happy ending :D

I like that... and I'm happy for you.

[Design Agent]

Nice one - power to the people :p

[uca]

I'm happy for you too!

I'm also surprised as usually in these cases there actually is something at least grey, not illegitimate but maybe unethical.

If they said sorry, it means you were and are right and I apologise for thinking differently.

Congratulations Soapbath!

PS: I would ask for another 180 pounds (just kiddin') :D

[Hodgedup]

Congratulations. Way to stand your ground. Now go out there and make a lot more sites like that one. :D

[chiefshuddle]

I guess I don't get the issue, if this is just an anonymous proxy server what the hell, there are millions of them out there.

[soapbath]

You think its over then.. another school today Emailed me saying they will take 'Other more serious forms of action', now this one I just laughed at. Do they think they could do anything.. I mean the school that emailed me is from Iraland.

[yfs1]

I mean the school that emailed me is from Iraland.

I wouldn't take it seriously....There is no such country!

Seriously though, thats a different story and you have no obligation to even answer them IMHO.

[soapbath]

Yeah, thats what I thought, Thankies Yfs1. TBH my 'Antiblock' is widely used around England now days, and well.. its to late to stop it.

[Cyclops]

I'm guessing this is a product to circumvent firewalls at the schools and as a parent I think it is very reasonable and responsable for the schools to demand that the site cease to promote a product like this....if this is what it is about that is.
I don't send my children to school to use the schools computers to download porn and the other products that I won't let them download at home.
Their is a reason schools have firewalls in place.

[soapbath]

I fully agree with this Cyclops, trust me I do. But there are cases where the system is going over the top, I am making this 'Antiblock' system filter porn sites out, just not done yet.

[Cyclops]

But there are cases where the system is going over the top.Their is no "over the top".....the school owns the computers and have a duty of care not to let the students use them for any purpose other than education.
It's hard enough keeping them focused without having the added distraction of using the computers for whatever they want. Viewing porn is only a small part of the issue.
I know this first hand from listening to my son and his mates talk about what they have been using the schools computers for.
My son spends as much time as he can playing online games at school because he and his mates have got past the firewall.
If they get busted they will be suspended and depending on what they are caught doing could be expelled.

Believe me it's hard for me to have this attitude but enough is enough, these kids are just wasting their time going to school.