DMOZ description replaces META TAG

[yarman]

I know that Google uses DMOZ site descriptions in place of Meta tag descriptions on occasion - apparently depending on the search term, etc. However is there a way to prevent this? We are cross listed on DMOZ and the people there create the stupidest site descriptions for us, and we have tried to request being deleted from DMOZ but they refuse to listen. Anyone know any other way to increase the odds of META TAG descriptions being used instead of DMOZ descriptions? THANKS...
:confused:

[clasione]

If Google decides to take the description from the directory, there is no way that I know of to prevent it from doing so..

Now on the other hand, If it was taking the meta tag and you didn't want it to, you could just remove the meta tag and you would force it to either display the decription from the directory or from onpage text, but there is no way that I know of that you wopuld be able to do the opposite..

[zamolxes]

(... unless you get your site delisted in dmoz...)

I for one much preferred when google only used body text snippets in the search results.

[minstrel]

You could of course email Google and complain... if enough people do that, maybe it will have an effect.

On the other hand, although I have seen other complaints like yours, I haven't seen it for my sites. I'm not sure what this means but I would suggest you use one of the spider simulators and see what Googlebot is seeing...

Try:

Poodle Predictor Google simulator (http://gritechnologies.com/tools/spider.go)

[yarman]

thanks guys.

yah its so frustrating. I tried that Poodle thing and it doesn't show my meta tag description...is that normal? hmm...but it does show the meta description under "diagnostics."

Im so sick of DMOZ...there are way too many power trips going on over there. And too many people who can't even write yet are in charge of changing the world's largest decription database. I even tried to apply to be an editor, went through the process of giving examples, and got rejected. So I can't even control my own site's descriptions which keeps being changed in 2 different DMOZ listings so its not even consistent. What a joke.

yah i guess i will have to email Google, good idea...

ARRRR!!!

[frankm]

According to DMOZ, the most effective way to get deleted from their database is to spam it... Their mailbox seems to be input-only, I've tried contacting members 1000's of times, never had one single reply. (and I was actually asking serious things -- imho)

[minstrel]

What's the URL for your site, yarman?

[minstrel]

According to DMOZ, the most effective way to get deleted from their database is to spam it...
That's method #1. Method #2 is NOT to spam it.

The real question is what is the most effective way to get IN to their database?

And the answer is:

1. submit your site
2. wait until the site lapses or you die, whichever comes first
3. after a long time, your heirs find the submission info in a dusty old trunk in your basement
4. your heirs post a polite message at the Resource Zone asking about the status of the site their ancestor submitted in 1995
5. Hutcheson posts a polite reply and immediately lists the site, since it has been over 6 years since the last inquiry, in accordance with RZ regulations

[yarman]

you know first i tried to be extremely nice about it...
first i tried to "update" my dmoz listing, many times. and they updated it allright. to a horribly long description that i didn't request. then i tried to email the section editor, and also email the "report problem" and got no responses...although the "report numbers" all came back as "resolved." then i tried to "report abuse" and still it camed back "resolved"...then i tried to "submit new url" and still nothing.

so then...i spammed their mailbox atleast 50 times with different things saying DELETE US PLEASE!!!! and still, they won't delete us. so neither ways worked for me...and i know the editors have visited the site at least 7 times because we have their visits logged. funny thing.

minstrel...haha...how terribly depressing.

oh, my url is spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/ (add http:// to the front, the forum rules wouldn't let me post it...being a new member..? that is dumb)

it has been around a while since its a club for a public university. so that makes the issue more complicated...SIGH

I really really hate DMOZ and their horribly managed monopoly.

[minstrel]

spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/
This is a rather unfriendly page from the point of view of a spider...

1. title
<title>UCI Campus Crusade for Christ</title>
Expand this to include some of your most important search terms. Then find a place on your actual index page to use the same terms in natural sentences (e.g., titles set out with <h1>...</h1> and <h2>...</h2>. But you're right... I'm not sure what's going on in your code with all the scripts, iframes, etc., but it just doesn't look like the gtitle is being seen by spiders... see below...

2. image alt tags -- for example
<img border="0" src="1FLAME8.jpg" width="144" height="180">
change to something aproppriate like
<img border="0" src="1FLAME8.jpg" alt="campus Christian club" width="144" height="180">
using different phrases, appropriate to the image/section, for each image

3. you need more spiderable text on the page, not embedded in frames or javascript-fed boxes: For example, that page includes two "daily devotionals" which the human reader can read as text. Here's what the spider will see:

<script language="JavaScript" src="http://www.biblegateway.com/usage/votd/votd2html.php?version=31&amp;jscript=1">
</script>
<!-- alternative for no javascript -->
<noscript>
<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/usage/votd/votd2html.php?version=31&amp;jscript=0">View Verse of the Day</a>
</noscript><!--webbot bot="HTMLMarkup" endspan i-checksum="837" --></font></span></address>


or

<iframe src="http://281217.myshoutbox.com" width="698" height="150" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" target="_self"></iframe>
4. You've got about a million links on this page pointing to itself:

<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
etc., etc., etc. (this is just an excerpt).

This serves no purpose at all -- a link from a page to itself is just wasted space.

According to this tool: http://www.stargeek.com/crawler_sim.php -- THIS is what a spider sees on your page:

Crawler Simulation of http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/:
UCI Campus Crusade for Christ [[ our vision ]] [[ calendar ]] [[ forum ]] [[ photos ]] [[ testimonies ]] [[ the bible ]] [[ contact us ]] [ unashamed love ] [ allaboutgod ] [ christianity ] [ wallpapers ] [ music ] [ guestbook ] Regarding the men on campus with big scary posters about God 5/6/2005 View Verse of the Day PERSECUTION NEWS AGAPE PRESS CHRISTIAN POST WORTHY NEWS View RSS feed View RSS feed View RSS feed View RSS feed DAILY DEVOTIONAL BY BILL KELLER: DAILY DEVOTIONAL BY OSWALD CHAMBERS: Copyright © 2005 UCI Campus Crusade for Christ Webmaster contact: [ Click here to email us ] Reaching visitors since 3/24/2005 site maintained by: [ ***] [ Vote for our website! Give us a 10! =) ] Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI Campus Crusade for Christ UCI
This isn't an exhaustive analysis... I'm sure that others can do a view source and pick out some other problems... but the bottom line is that for a spider there's just not very much to work with there.

And of course, the other problem is this:

link:spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/

Results 1 - 3 of 3 linking to spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/

And finally, I am (obviously) not a fan of DMOZ at all but, to give credit, in this case the DMOZ editor's description is far better than anything on your page:

An interdenominational Christian organization whose goal is to help students grow in their relationships with God through evangelism and discipleship.

[ROAR]

look at result #1 here

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=carroll+communications

[minstrel]

:confused:

What are we looking at there, ROAR? Looks okay to me... straight from your meta description:

<META NAME="Description" content="VoIP Solutions: Avaya IP Office telephone systems and PBX phone systems from Carroll Communications your source for all office telephone systems including IP Office, Partner phone system and Merlin Magix PBX and VoIP solutions.">

[ROAR]

Sorry for not being clearer...The description is fine. I was referring to the title shown.

It is not the title of the page, but the name of my company. Is that "normal"?
The site has been in DMOZ for a few months...but obviously I do not search for my company name frequently.

[accountability]

yarman The DMOZ editors love your site so it's going to stay. They personally hate you for all your email spam, so maybe they are going to block your email - that's probably all that will happen.

[accountability]

ROAR - Company names - are in Business categories - the correct title for sites - it really should be Carroll Communications Inc.

http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#titles

[minstrel]

Things may make sense in DMOZ land, but I agree with ROAR - it just seems wrong to me that the page title should be changed in the Google SERPs.

Who knows better how to best describe a website? The person who owns and designed the site or some DMOZ editor in his mom's basement who spends maybe 5 minutes browsing it?

It seems to me that DMOZ can, of course, do whatever the hell it wants but I do find it extremely disconcerting that Google should data from DMOZ to override the webmaster's decisions. The correct title for this page (site) should NOT necessarily be the name of the company that owns the website anywhere in the real world. Since I am a one-man operation, by that logic all my websites should have the title "David Baxter".

[ViciousSummer]

you know first i tried to be extremely nice about it...
first i tried to "update" my dmoz listing, many times. and they updated it allright. to a horribly long description that i didn't request. then i tried to email the section editor, and also email the "report problem" and got no responses...although the "report numbers" all came back as "resolved." then i tried to "report abuse" and still it camed back "resolved"...then i tried to "submit new url" and still nothing.

so then...i spammed their mailbox atleast 50 times with different things saying DELETE US PLEASE!!!! and still, they won't delete us. so neither ways worked for me...and i know the editors have visited the site at least 7 times because we have their visits logged. funny thing.

minstrel...haha...how terribly depressing.

oh, my url is spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/ (add http:// to the front, the forum rules wouldn't let me post it...being a new member..? that is dumb)

it has been around a while since its a club for a public university. so that makes the issue more complicated...SIGH

I really really hate DMOZ and their horribly managed monopoly.DMOZ, the largest "human" edited directory, has robots now. I complained a couple of times about the robots f-ing up my category before I gave up...So stupid. :rolleyes:

[minstrel]

Perfect. Robotic Hutcheson clones... :eek:

[Blogmaster]

DMOZ, the largest "human" edited directory, has robots now. I complained a couple of times about the robots f-ing up my category before I gave up...So stupid. :rolleyes:
so do the robots affect current listings or just filter out spammy new submissions?

[Blogmaster]

Yarman, you are waving a red flag there. btw Hutcheson is a Christian, you may wanna PM him, he edits the Christian categories.This is a rather unfriendly page from the point of view of a spider...

1. title
<title>UCI Campus Crusade for Christ</title>
Expand this to include some of your most important search terms. Then find a place on your actual index page to use the same terms in natural sentences (e.g., titles set out with <h1>...</h1> and <h2>...</h2>. But you're right... I'm not sure what's going on in your code with all the scripts, iframes, etc., but it just doesn't look like the gtitle is being seen by spiders... see below...

2. image alt tags -- for example
<img border="0" src="1FLAME8.jpg" width="144" height="180">
change to something aproppriate like
<img border="0" src="1FLAME8.jpg" alt="campus Christian club" width="144" height="180">
using different phrases, appropriate to the image/section, for each image

3. you need more spiderable text on the page, not embedded in frames or javascript-fed boxes: For example, that page includes two "daily devotionals" which the human reader can read as text. Here's what the spider will see:

<script language="JavaScript" src="http://www.biblegateway.com/usage/votd/votd2html.php?version=31&amp;jscript=1">
</script>
<!-- alternative for no javascript -->
<noscript>
<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/usage/votd/votd2html.php?version=31&amp;jscript=0">View Verse of the Day</a>
</noscript><!--webbot bot="HTMLMarkup" endspan i-checksum="837" --></font></span></address>


or

<iframe src="http://281217.myshoutbox.com" width="698" height="150" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" target="_self"></iframe>
4. You've got about a million links on this page pointing to itself:

<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">Campus Crusade for Christ</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
<a href="http://spirit.dos.uci.edu/crusade/"><font color="#010066">UCI</font></a><font color="#010066">
</font>
etc., etc., etc. (this is just an excerpt).

This serves no purpose at all -- a link from a page to itself is just wasted space.

According to this tool: http://www.stargeek.com/crawler_sim.php -- THIS is what a spider sees on your page:


This isn't an exhaustive analysis... I'm sure that others can do a view source and pick out some other problems... but the bottom line is that for a spider there's just not very much to work with there.

And of course, the other problem is this:



And finally, I am (obviously) not a fan of DMOZ at all but, to give credit, in this case the DMOZ editor's description is far better than anything on your page:

[ViciousSummer]

so do the robots affect current listings...They sure do. It's really f-ing annoying when you are an editor and some crap ass robot thinks it's a better "human editor"...:rolleyes:

[orlady]

What are you talking about, ViciousSummer? :confused: At dmoz, we use robots to find bad URLs. Nothing more.

What were you smoking when you thought you saw a robot delete or edit a valid listing? ;)

[minstrel]

What are you talking about, ViciousSummer? At dmoz, we use robots to find bad URLs. Nothing more. What were you smoking when you thought you saw a robot delete or edit a valid listing?
Aren't you needed at the Resourceless Zone or somewhere, orlady? :rolleyes:

Paraphrasing Bill Murray in Ghostbusters, "You don't need to hang around here insulting people... you have hundreds of people waiting to be insulted...", and the Resourceless Zone is definitely the place to do that.

Better hurry... it's been a long weekend and Hutcheson must be getting tired by this time... :eek:

[ROAR]

Accountability---thanks. You are the best.

Can you change that for me...and look into putting my site into one of the meaningful cats while you are at it?

[ViciousSummer]

What are you talking about, ViciousSummer? :confused: At dmoz, we use robots to find bad URLs. Nothing more...Uh Huh...right. Orlady, you are either ignorant to this fact, or you're trying to cover dmoz's a$$.

Let me do a little research here...When I go through the editing logs for my category and check out the edits by "system", the following types of edits show up: unreview & modify. The "unreview" edits would jive with what you are saying, but what about the "modify"? Now, if you click on "system" it brings up the robots profile which reads: "This is the robot account used by staff to run maintenence-type tasks on the system -- bulk edits, fixing listing errors, for example. More information is available in the forums.

There is even more proof that dmoz robots modify listings in the forum, but I don't have time to post all that info right now (unless you want to continue to argue with me)...Time for surfing!

[macdesign]

You don't need to hang around here insulting people.That's mostly what you seem to do, Mintrel.

[Blogmaster]

Be careful the DMOZ mafia is everywhere watching, new one post wonders popping up

[anthonycea]

Shit this is getting good, I think they should replace all editors with robots, that would be progress to me, AOL should just dump the humans and install a spider and get the BS overwith :o

Well that is after they hire me as Chairman of DMOZ :o

[nddb]

Be careful the DMOZ mafia is everywhere watching, new one post wonders popping up

Apparently they will also come over here to respond to things you asked them at RZ. LOL.. touchy bunch, if only they spent this much time actually reviewing sites, or coding some kind of automated notification system for additions/rejections, then people wouldn't need to ask when their site was reviewed, or if it had been rejected. Guh... so stupid, if I may say so.

[Blogmaster]

nddb, what pisses me off is when editors who are members on my real estate forum, get contacted within DMOZ to edit the posts they have made in my forum, also the DMOZ section (http://www.national-real-estate-directory.com/real-estate-forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64) gets an unusual amount of visitors from guests and the same IP addresses I am starting to see again and again (and they are not bots).

[yarman]

roar: that sucks buddy. im with you.

accountability: haha. maybe you're right. those bastards.


minstrel, thanks so much for spending the time on reviewing that! i really appreciate it.

i made a few updates so far. i will try to work on a few header titles with more words. about the tons of links on there, i did that temporarily to help our google rank. and maybe its in my head, but after i did that, combined with spreading our link around the net a bit, our rank went from like page 12 to page 2 on google. whats your thoughts? i dont think its kosher but hey it seemed to work. also, that DMOZ description is okay but they gave us a 2nd one too...its so long that it doesn't even all fit on google when it shows up in search results!! thats why im upset....thanks again.

vicious summer: really? how did you find that out? thats bullcrup.

sitetutor: well maybe he is christian, but he's being a jerk, i'll tell you that much...or whoever is ignoring my pleas!!!

Orlady: you're just a sucker to the system!! don't believe their lies!! this is what im talking about!! DIE DMOZ DIE DIE DIE !!!

unbelievable...i hope the dmoz mafia is indeed reading this. maybe they will piss their pants and start putting power in the hands of webmasters again. hmmm....Orlady? relay THAT to Mr. Machine would you? =P

[nddb]

SiteTutor,

Wow, now that is ridiculous. :(

[anthonycea]

TOOT, I thought Minstrel and I fired you from the DMOZ circuit, what are you doing back :confused:

[Blogmaster]

Orlady: you're just a sucker to the system!! don't believe their lies!! this is what im talking about!! DIE DMOZ DIE DIE DIE !!!

hehe, orlady is just a tool to them.

[Blogmaster]

here they come again, 6 guests DMOZ DMOZ DMOZ DMOZ ... hehe I hope some of you guys are in there as well ;)

[anthonycea]

Well TOOT, are you going to give an answer to my question or not :confused: :eek:

[Blogmaster]

Anthony, ok you want it you get it: there are so many good DMOZ editors but if you wanna make a difference, IMO you need to step things up and really do something, otherwise it's a waste of time and they win.

[Blogmaster]

I don't like the tone in some of the DMOZ threads here, it is insulting the many editors who spend countless hours doing something they believe in. I suggest going for the big ones, otherwise this will just be a venting place like resource zone is to them, not any better, only reverse. We all know what threads we are talking about. It's not a good idea to keep on bashing without having any power to make any kind of positive change. When there are bash fests, it will only empower the bad ones over there to say "look at those idiots" and they are laughing, trust me. If you want this to be a joke, fine, but leave me out of it. People get hurt, the good editors and the webmasters who want to find some real info how to get their web sites listed

[anthonycea]

Wait until Chairman Minstrel gets hold of you TOOT :eek: :eek: :eek: :o

[anthonycea]

We have brought out better ideas in our "Bashing threads" than anyone at DMOZ could come up with on their own, so I really don't know what you are talking about :o

[Blogmaster]

those ideas are being ignored, call AOL or Time Warner or start a petition if it is that important. Otherwise, if it's all a joke, then it should be labelled as such.

[anthonycea]

I don't think so, just because you say that does not make it so, I could say the moon is made out of blue cheese also :)

What are your set of improvements?

Go ahead and list them if you have better ideas :o

[Blogmaster]

I listed the petition blog before but everyone seemed way too busy.

[Blogmaster]

I'm not claiming anything, not trying to be right, just saying if you guys want to do something, really do something.

[anthonycea]

TOOT, let me be honest, blogs are not anything that most folks really take seriously, if you want to start a thread on it here at Digital Point and not on some obscure forum your ideas may get some attention.

Other than that you are wasting your time.

You can call it the "DMOZ Best Ideas" thread.

[Blogmaster]

OK then let's keep doing nothing.

[Blogmaster]

At least I have been reaching out to the other side to get some things done, what have you guys done? Do you think AOL reads this? Yeh right and if they did, they would side with the editors even more. The anti DMOZ threads here have turned into the same disgrace like the ones on the RZ, sorry, just my opinion. At least be honest when you don't want to get involved, we can make the difference but not like the DMOZ team on DP did. here is my DMOZ Petition Blog (http://dmozpetition.blogspot.com) once again for anyone who cares. And don't take Antony's advice, people who want to make a difference, can make a difference, the keyword is WANT.

[anthonycea]

Like I said, your view only, I think they were some of the most productive threads ever with many DMOZ editors joining in also.

So you can say what you wish, like I said that does not make it so.

[Blogmaster]

Anthony, yes .... some productive things came out, but who cares when those in charge will never see them. Only ones who did were the clones and they make no difference, that would be like calling you to change the way digitalpoint is being run.

[Blogmaster]

Sorry, don't mean to come off in a bad way but you guys ask for it trying to drag me back into it. I am all or nothing, have other things to spend my energy on ...

[anthonycea]

Sure they see them, why do you think editors are here now and more are joining Digital Point everyday.

Why not put up your ideas in a thread on how DMOZ can improve and see where it goes TOOT :confused:

At least the ideas will get exposure here and not be buried in some page that no one will ever look at.

You know your entire problem here is that you are an editor of a competing directory and not many are going to take your ideas to heart at DMOZ even if they are good, plus Joe Ant may get pissed at you.

So these issues could hurt you more than help you, that is why I keep asking why you get involved in the first place :eek:

[Blogmaster]

JoeAnt means nothing to me, seriously. I shouldn't say that but ...

[anthonycea]

TOOT, you are just lucky Minstrel is not online right now :eek: :eek: :eek: :p

[Blogmaster]

AC obviously this is all a joke to you.

But anyways, here it is http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=15673

Are you trying to censor me like the head editors are doing it on the RZ??
Trust me, I cannot be intimidated especially not over something like this where noone wants to leave his own little comfort zone. Anyways, the thread is up, I'm done, let's see what you guys got.

[minstrel]

I don't like the tone in some of the DMOZ threads here, it is insulting the many editors who spend countless hours doing something they believe in.
Then stop reading them and posting in them. The problem with you, ST, is you can't make up your mind... pick a strategy, any strategy, and go with it. Stop waffling.

It's not a good idea to keep on bashing without having any power to make any kind of positive change.
I disagree. I don't see the alternate strategies you've suggested to date doing a damn thing. Maybe stepping up negative publicity will help... maybe not. I don't see how it can make anything worse than it is.

When there are bash fests, it will only empower the bad ones over there to say "look at those idiots" and they are laughing, trust me.
They are laughing anyway, ST... and I'm sure they are laughing twice as loud at you joining in the bashing one day and panicking the next when you realize one of the editors may have read your post.

If you want this to be a joke, fine, but leave me out of it.
We'd be happy to... stop jumping back in... make up your mind. And believe me, it's no joke.

People get hurt, the good editors and the webmasters who want to find some real info how to get their web sites listed
...and that's the real dilemma for you, isn't it, ST... see above... make up your mind... pick a side and stick with it.

[minstrel]

I listed the petition blog before but everyone seemed way too busy.
It's not that we were way too busy, ST... it's that your blog was way too pointless.

[noppid]

It's not that we were way too busy, ST... it's that your blog was way too pointless.

I love the way you get right to the point! :D

[minstrel]

At least I have been reaching out to the other side to get some things done, what have you guys done? Do you think AOL reads this? Yeh right and if they did, they would side with the editors even more.
And what did you accomplish? Do you really think anyone at AOL is reading your little blog? or even knows it exists?

Sorry, don't mean to come off in a bad way but you guys ask for it trying to drag me back into it. I am all or nothing, have other things to spend my energy on ...
What a load of crap.

This is getting really annoying, ST. Look: NO ONE IS DRAGGING YOU BACK INTO ANYTHING. The problem is you can't stay away... maybe it's a will power problem or just plain indecisiveness, but whatever it is it's YOUR problem: Don't try to hold anyone else responsible for your inability to make up your mind and stick to it.

Trust me, I cannot be intimidated especially not over something like this where noone wants to leave his own little comfort zone.
But the problem is that you ARE intimidated by the DMOZ editors, which is precisely why you keep lashing out at them and then going into a panic when you realize once again that this is a public forum and that *gasp* some of the people reading it and even running it are DMOZ editors. Your behavior is extremely transparent, almost embarassingly so. Do yourself a favor: Just make up your damn mind which side you want to be on. I think people on both/all sides will respect you a lot more if you do.

[Blogmaster]

There is no way to make up my mind since there is bad behaviour on both sides, you need to look at 1,000s of editors who believe in what they do and have NO interest other than being a part of something they believe in. Did you ever reach out and try to find out why they act like they do? I was banned like you at RZ but got unbanned. I am using this to find out the reason behind their actions. I wanna know what frustrates them to the point to where they resort to that behaviour. You feel comfortable labelling them as assholes and are happy venting about them. I am not.

What have you accomplished in the past years? When will you get tired of your battle?

Do you want to do something or not? If you are not looking for a solution, then you will become a part of the problem. I have put up this thread for a reason http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=15673&page=1&pp=10
What makes your posts different from the RZ guys who tell each others we are all spammers when you tell people all DMOZ editors are assholes?

[minstrel]

There is no way to make up my mind since there is bad behaviour on both sides
I was talking about making up your mind about a strategy, ST.

you need to look at 1,000s of editors who believe in what they do and have NO interest other than being a part of something they believe in. Did you ever reach out and try to find out why they act like they do?
Nope. Not interested. I'm pretty sure I already know why they act like they do. And even without the rogue editors, there are a LOT of other problems with DMOZ... I've explained that to you before.

I was banned like you at RZ but got unbanned.
I was never banned at RZ, as far as I know. I don't know if I've ever even posted there. And if they do/did ban me, I really can't say I'd care about it one way or another.

I am using this to find out the reason behind their actions. I wanna know what frustrates them to the point to where they resort to that behaviour. You feel comfortable labelling them as assholes and are happy venting about them. I am not.
Fine with me. Then don't. Go off and try to figure them out or whatever it is you want to do. Don't vent. Just stop posting in these threads if it bothers you. But please don't insult us by telling us it's our fault you keep popping up in these threads or claiming that we somehow "dragged you back in" -- are you really that spineless? Get a backbone, man... do whatever it is you want to do. Who here is stopping you?

I have put up this thread for a reason http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=15673&page=1&pp=10
Good idea. Now go post over there and quit whining in here.

What makes your posts different from the RZ guys who tell each others we are all spammers when you tell people all DMOZ editors are assholes?
I'd really like you to try to find a post anywhere, here or anywhere else, where I said that, ST. It just didn't happen.

[Blogmaster]

Who is whining? Everytime someone mentions DMOZ, you come in. Are you going to do something about the things that bother you, or not?

[minstrel]

Get some sleep, ST. You're not even making sense any more. Go back and read your posts in this thread over the last 2 or 3 pages.

And then, one more time and I really hope for the last time, go ahead and do it your way (whatever that is). Nobody is hindering you in the slightest. But stop complaining that some of us won't jump on your bandwagon du jour because we think your ideas on how to "fix DMOZ" are pointless and doomed. Just do it. If you believe in it, why the hell do you need me or my approval to proceeed?

[Blogmaster]

I don't, bro! You can have this thread ... I am moving to mine :)

[gworld]

those ideas are being ignored, call AOL or Time Warner or start a petition if it is that important. Otherwise, if it's all a joke, then it should be labelled as such.

You must be joking, why should AOL or Time Warner care about this, most of the people in management position probably haven't heard about DMOZ before.

Corrupt DMOZ editors is nothing in comarision to accounting problem that forced them to restate $690 million in 2 years accounting or paying $300 million in fine to SEC.

Time Warner & SEC settlement (http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/21/news/fortune500/time_warner/)

Forget about fixing DMOZ, it is too far gone. If you want to do something useful, concentrate on how to kill it which happens very fast if Google drops it.

[minstrel]

Precisely, gworld.

[gworld]

And what did you accomplish? Do you really think anyone at AOL is reading your little blog? or even knows it exists?



I don't think the management in AOL even knows DMOZ exists, let alone his blog.

[yarman]

I don't think the management in AOL even knows DMOZ exists, let alone his blog.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


:eek:



DEAR GOD ALMIGHTLY THIS IS EXACTLY THE BULL THAT IM TALKING ABOUT (I went over and took a look at the infamous DMOZ resource-zone forum, and this is the first thing i read...):

***********************************************
June 27, 2004
KRISH
Please letme know the status fo my website www.scintro.com
I have sumitted this site a month before. i forgot the category so i resubmitted it in kidsandteens/health/nutrition it is very informative webpage about fruits with nice pictures.
Thanks.
........................................................
July 6, 2004
leannabartram
Hi there!
Actually, you submitted twice to Kids_and_Teens/Health/Nutrition and once to Kids_and_Teens/Directories
Your site was not listed in Directories, one extra submission was deleted from Nutrition, and one copy awaits further review in Kids_and_Teens/Health/Nutrition.
Hope this helps!
........................................................
July 29, 2004
KRISH
Hi
Thanks for the reply just i am curious how long still it will take.
Thanks.
Krish
........................................................
July 29, 2004
leannabartram
Actually, it ranges anywhere between a couple of days and many months. Sorry I can't be more specific. You can request another update 6 months from your last request, though.
........................................................
October 31, 2004
KRISH
Hi,
Sorry for bothering you much. As it is 3 months from your last message i thought I can check once again for the status. If you can please help me.
........................................................
October 31, 2004
motsa - MODERATOR
You'll notice that she said you could come back for an update in 6 months, not 3.
That means that you can come back here after Jan. 7, 2005, to get another status update.
........................................................
January 7, 2005
KRISH
Hi,
I want to check the status of my site now.
Thanks.
........................................................
January 7, 2005
sole - EDITALL
It has been deleted from consideration. You are welcome to resubmit once the site is finished. Our editors attempted reviewing the site several times and noted that only pages for a and b were done. They were waiting for the rest of the alphabet before completing our review.
However, finally it removed from the queue because it was taking too long. As I said, you can resubmit once the site is finished.
........................................................
resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18219


POOR GIRL!!! SHE WAITED A FREAKING YEAR TO HEAR BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS AND THEN ONLY TO GET REJECTED!!! THEY CANT TELL HER THAT AFTER LIKE A WEEK OR WHAT??? BURN DMOZ!!! BURN!!! TRACK ME DOWN AND FIND ME!!! DELETE ALL MY WEBSITES FROM YOUR DATABASE!!! I WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY YOU RAT BASTARDS ON RAGING POWER TRIPS WHO ARENT EVEN NATIVE SPEAKERS OF ENGLISH AND CANT EVEN FREAKING TELL WHAT A WEBSITE IS ABOUT!!!

[compostannie]

POOR GIRL!!! SHE WAITED A FREAKING YEAR TO HEAR BACK FROM THOSE BASTARDS AND THEN ONLY TO GET REJECTED!!! THEY CANT TELL HER THAT AFTER LIKE A WEEK OR WHAT??? BURN DMOZ!!! BURN!!! TRACK ME DOWN AND FIND ME!!! DELETE ALL MY WEBSITES FROM YOUR DATABASE!!! I WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY YOU RAT BASTARDS ON RAGING POWER TRIPS WHO ARENT EVEN NATIVE SPEAKERS OF ENGLISH AND CANT EVEN FREAKING TELL WHAT A WEBSITE IS ABOUT!!!
This is a weird rant. The "poor girl" submitted a site that wasn't built. A year later it still wasn't completed! Maybe if the "poor girl" would have spent that year working on her site rather than waiting she would be listed.

[minstrel]

This is a weird rant. The "poor girl" submitted a site that wasn't built. A year later it still wasn't completed! Maybe if the "poor girl" would have spent that year working on her site rather than waiting she would be listed.
Missing the point completely. What sort of organization takes a year (or longer -- more than 4 years in some cases) to make a decision about a submission and inform the webmaster?

Are you associated with DMOZ, compostannie?

[yfs1]

Minstrel - You have to admit that was a pretty weird rant. Especially with so many legitimate reasons

[minstrel]

I'm not going to defend the entire rant... the author can do that. But the main point, that it took a year for someone to give any information at all, is the one that catches my eye. Would it not have been possible somewhere in that year for someone to say, "your site is under construction and will be deleted from the queue... resubmit when it's finished"?

[compostannie]

minstrel, yes, I am an editor.

In this particular case, editors waited a year before giving up on the site. It was a promising site, therefore it was held and looked at many times by many editors hoping to list it.

It's too bad she didn't finish it. I like it. :)

[Blogmaster]

minstrel, yes, I am an editor.


Annie, trust me, we know. A brandnew member coming in straight to defend DMOZ is a very common phenomenon around here.

[minstrel]

In this particular case, editors waited a year before giving up on the site. It was a promising site, therefore it was held and looked at many times by many editors hoping to list it.
Why couldn't someone have told her that in all that time?

[gworld]

Why couldn't someone have told her that in all that time?

Come on minstrel, you know the answer. If they start doing strange things like letting people know their submission statue, then how can editors charge $25 for the report? :)

[macdesign]

What sort of organization takes a year What sort of webmaster takes a year to build a site and wastes editors time by submitting before completion.

Seems we were overly forgiving to let it sit for all that time hoping she would fix it.

[minstrel]

Seems we were overly forgiving to let it sit for all that time hoping she would fix it.
But nobody bothered to tell her that... don't you get it?

What sort of webmaster takes a year to build a site and wastes editors time by submitting before completion.
What sort of organization repeatedly tells the world that it is too busy to even implement an automated reply script and then wastes a year before someone with a bit of humanity and integrity finally comes along to let the webmaster know that the submission isn't eligible?

[nddb]

I can't believe how much time these so-called "editors" waste telling us how good DMOZ is, instead of making it better by doing their volunteer job, or handing it over to someone who will.

[macdesign]

Because the joy of being an editor is I can edit whenever I want to - and if I want to come here and argue in these wonderful forums, I can do that.

If you want to volunteer because you think I'm not doing enough - feel free - how many hours a week are you willing to spend - how good a job are you planning to do, or is it just that you want your site listed - in which case, don't apply.

[yarman]

haha...some of ya guys need to chillax its ok to laugh sometimes i wasn't being THAT serious. i think minstrel saw the real point: dmoz takes WAY TOO LONG at...rejecting websites that apply. and its all for show. read those damn forums, the webmasters are sitting there with their balls chopped off sucking up to the editors for some sign of life and progress on their site submission, and all the editors just play them on like ugly girls at a high school dance. its the saddest thing ive ever read. and if you happen to get at all critical or ask too many questions, they ban you from the forum, and delete your website, but only after making you wait at least 6 months to hear about it. you call that professional??? YOU GOTTA BE JOKING.

a human edited directory. yes its a wonderful idea. but how can anyone, even nice editors who are in their own bubble of kindness, defend the total BS that dmoz has become? google must have some secret nasty reason for keeping this partnership up, because at least half of the descriptions they write are HORRIBLE and there is no real reason i can see for continuing to use a 3rd party directory after years of google being around except...laziness, and an easy way to say "hey, we aren't biased in our search results, we support the non-profit directory...so BAH"...

i would be fine with dmoz in any case if their work didnt OVERRIDE my own meta tags and website design work!!! understand?? its terribly frustrating. i hope editors can one day understand what some of us here are trying to relay....since they won't read my emails or any of my contact attempts.

[web-rover]

noticed this as well. I had rather nice discription and google goes and takes the boring one from DMOZ

[orlady]

A few pages back :rolleyes: ViciousSummer said: When I go through the editing logs for my category and check out the edits by "system", the following types of edits show up: unreview & modify. The "unreview" edits would jive with what you are saying, but what about the "modify"? Now, if you click on "system" it brings up the robots profile which reads: "This is the robot account used by staff to run maintenence-type tasks on the system -- bulk edits, fixing listing errors, for example. More information is available in the forums.
If you had looked a wee bit more carefully at the logs in the category, you would have seen that when the robot called "system" did those "modify" edits, nothing changed. "System" was cleaning up some coding problems throughout the directory, but most of the changes were invisible to humans.

Next time you feel like ranting, try to find something real to rant about. ;)

[Blogmaster]

so what sort of positive changes do you have to suggest, orlady? http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=15673

[compostannie]

Why couldn't someone have told her that in all that time?
Is it wrong to assume the webmaster knows the site hasn't been finished?

[nddb]

compostannie,

That's one scenario. DMOZ doesn't tell anyone anything except "wait more, we are king here.. when we say wait, you wait."

They could have said denied it, sent an automated reply that said "denied, site unfinished/under construction, resubmit when it's finished."

But they don't bother to send out anything except snide remarks in forums where people mention DMOZ.

Such pointless loyalty to a job for which you don't even get paid, except in ego perks.

[ViciousSummer]

...If you had looked a wee bit more carefully at the logs in the category, you would have seen that when the robot called "system" did those "modify" edits, nothing changed. "System" was cleaning up some coding problems throughout the directory, but most of the changes were invisible to humans.That is so weird...Especially because you just contradicted yourself. In one sentance you say that "nothing changed" (in bold even...wow!), and then in your very next sentance you say that "most" of the changes made by dmoz robots are invisible to humans. So you're admitting that some of the changes made by the robots *are* visible changes (which I already knew, so that's not a big shocker). And, yes, I have seen robots make changes to active listing.

...Next time you feel like ranting, try to find something real to rant about. ;)SO, next time you feel like being a condescending bitch, perhaps your should go back to Resource Zone. ;)

[yarman]

Is it wrong to assume the webmaster knows the site hasn't been finished?

What the...?! Is it wrong to assume that DMOZ also knows the site isn't finished yet decides to stick poles up newbie webmasters who are trying to put food on the table?

compostannie,

That's one scenario. DMOZ doesn't tell anyone anything except "wait more, we are king here.. when we say wait, you wait."
They could have said denied it, sent an automated reply that said "denied, site unfinished/under construction, resubmit when it's finished."
But they don't bother to send out anything except snide remarks in forums where people mention DMOZ.
Such pointless loyalty to a job for which you don't even get paid, except in ego perks.

SO WELL WORDED. KUDOS.

SO, next time you feel like being a condescending bitch, perhaps your should go back to Resource Zone. ;)

Hahaha. Don't you love living life through a proxy?

I think someone should register www.DownWithDMOZ.com and make it a super simple website that has no errors just big flashing words and then submit it to DMOZ for indexing. Then, create 50 different forum usernames and start new posts every day asking if the site has been reviewed yet. :eek:

[yarman]

well...guess what.

im decking it out with DMOZ after all. having a little chit chat on the old RZ...
if anyone is interested in following my adventures, check it:

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=184360#post184360

peace ;)

[Blogmaster]

wow, this is getting good :)

[anthonycea]

Careful TOOT or we will sic Minstrel and VS on you :eek: :eek: :eek: :p

[Blogmaster]

I'm shaking ... did you read Yarman's thread in RZ?

[anthonycea]

No time, got to go jump in the shower and go nite, nite.....

Can't play with you guys much anymore :mad: :o

[gworld]

well...guess what.

im decking it out with DMOZ after all. having a little chit chat on the old RZ...
if anyone is interested in following my adventures, check it:

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=184360#post184360

peace ;)

This answer from ishtar is interesting after your request that they should delete your site:

"I denied your requests for the Reference category. You have a website, we think it's useful to our users, so we choose to link to it. If you don't want us to link to it, then you should take the website off the Internet."

What arrogance :mad: , no wonder everybody hates these morons.

[Blogmaster]

No time, got to go jump in the shower and go nite, nite.....

Can't play with you guys much anymore :mad: :o
It's pretty interesting, he is actually asking to be delisted and the whole crew is there :)

[Blogmaster]

I'll be acting like a sports commentator in here ;) hehe

I love DP so much, freedom of speech rocks! And the good ones will survive ... on both sides :) long term speaking that is!

[minstrel]

Next time you feel like ranting, try to find something real to rant about.
Oh, get bent. And please go back to RZ to do it... :mad:

Is it wrong to assume the webmaster knows the site hasn't been finished?
Is it wrong to assume that somewhere in the course of a year someone could have used a little common courtesy and told this individual what the hell was going on?

wow, this is getting good
ST you are such a hypocrite... last night you were blasting all of us for ruining your "big" plan to use a blog get AOL to discipline these people and blaming us for "dragging you back in" and here you are again...

orlady, take him back to RZ with you, please...

[Blogmaster]

I am blasting YOU for being just like the RZ hotheads.

[anthonycea]

Like I told you last night TOOT, we have a lot of folks discussing real issues here and like Minstrel said it is not a joke to us even though we use humor in many cases to discuss the issues. :o

[Blogmaster]

of course this is serious, so let's not resort to RZ tactics where we are trying to censor in here.

[anthonycea]

No one is trying to keep you from your opinions, it is just that we can't judge you from one day to the next as to what your next idea or position will be.

So we have lost a bit of confidence in what you are saying, now that can be repaired if you start speaking on the real issues and that is all Minstrel is pointing out.

[Blogmaster]

AC, thank you for your feedback :) I am on the side of those who are right and lemme quote ysf1
Exactly and I think it hurts the campaign to reveal the real problems by attacking anyone even affiliated with DMOZ. The vast majority of editors go about their business doing what they think is right and by flaming them you are only making yourself look stupid.

That aggresion would be better applied elsewhere as you may find many editors are actually on your side

I agree with it, a lot of good editors are alienated when these threads turn into the same Nazi tactics. We all know orlady and annie are not allowed to speak their minds and be themselves. They are being watched. Good luck trying this with me, be better than the guys on RZ and ministrel, I have responded to you in my thread (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=170091#post170091) : stop being so fvking selfish for once.

[anthonycea]

There you go again TOOT, you leave us with another post where we must make an attempt to figure out what you meant :confused:

Just answer clearly and ask questions back when folks respond to you, that is all anyone is asking :cool:

[Blogmaster]

refresh and see the quote, he said it better than me. You guys should realize I am not about my own like most are when it comes to DMOZ. Alienating good people on both sides is bad. If you are angry at DMOZ, go to the boxing ring and knock someone out but don't taint this place with Nazi tactics, the same kind you guys seem to complain about at the zone.

[anthonycea]

Like I said TOOT, when you want to discuss real issues in these threads instead of sensationalism, please make a post on the issues being discussed and all will be fine.

You are the one always saying we are bashing DMOZ and the editors and that could not be further from the truth, we really are discussing issues and if you can't see that it is your problem. :o

[Blogmaster]

No AC, you are not bashing but Minstrel is just like Hutch and it does nothing, those 2 should fight one another, but I am saying, I am not Annie or orlady, don't try to censor me. I can flip flop or do whatever I want. I have an issue with the RZ attitude and since Minstrel's is not any better, I would be a hypocrite supporting what he is doing in here. Thank God we have places like digitalpoint and sitepoint where you can voice yourself and don't get shut down for your OPINION>

[gworld]

I agree with it, a lot of good editors are alienated when these threads turn into the same Nazi tactics. We all know orlady and annie are not allowed to speak their minds and be themselves. They are being watched. Good luck trying this with me, be better than the guys on RZ and ministrel, I have responded to you in my thread: stop being so fvking selfish for once.

I don't get this, do you mean "good" editors , orlady and annie are censored on RZ or here?

If it is on RZ, well we can't do anything about it since it is a common problem for everyone there.

If you mean on DP, what is your proof, I saw both of them post today. I am all for free speech and don't think anybody should be censored, even if I think is just useless to listen the editor's spam, spam song so many times as their only answer to everything.

Let me tell you a story, 4 man are standing and talking. The 1st man says I think it is cold.
The 2nd man says I agree with you.
The 3rd man says but I think is warm and the 2nd man says I agree with you. The 4th man says to 2nd man, but they are saying the opposite, you can not agree with both.
The 2nd man responds I agree with you too.

I don't think that Mistrel or Antony are trying to stop you from stating your opinion, but in a short while that I have participated in DP, it seems to me that you very often agree with the last posting, so if it is anti-dmoz, your posting will be anti-dmoz and if it is pro, yours will be pro.

May be, it will be good, if you organise your own thoughts and decide where you stand on this question first before discussing it with others.

[anthonycea]

Don't compare SitePoint with Digital Point, SitePoint does censor threads, in fact they deleted many hot threads that I had going there that were very important threads also. :)

[Blogmaster]

well,,,, there we have it, take a side, stick with it and see nothing else. hmm .. .I am about improvement. Most ppl wanna be right even when they're wrong. Now let's see: Annie and orlady cannot speak about DMOZ or they will be contacted within DMOZ. Now what are we doing in here? Same thing. Just the opposite side of the fence. It makes things worse ... ask yourself if you want to vent or want to help make changes. The good editors would love changes but you guys are too focused on venting that it won't happen. Not like this. If you focus on me instead of what should be done, you are missing the point. What has Minstrel accomplished in his 3 yr battle with DMOZ? And then ask why. That is the issue. You guys can do this for the rest of your life but please don't expect others to spin their wheels as well.

[minstrel]

Toot, you really are full of it. One minute you are complaining that we shouldn't be DMOZ bashing and the next you are right in the thick of the bashing yourself and the next you are trying to lure people over to your real estate forum to join in the DMOZ bashing there and the next you are trying to get people to sign up for your blog petition.

Just, in the name of all that's holy, MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Sheesh... as a member of another forum says in her sig, it's like trying to nail Jello to a tree! :mad:

[nddb]

Sitetutor,

"ask yourself if you want to vent or want to help make changes."

I see what you're saying... but every other directory out there has made the changes that would improve DMOZ. Most of the changes they need to make are basic common sense that even a 15 year old putting up a directory could see. They just don't care to change it, so might as well vent. =)

[minstrel]

Let me tell you a story, 4 man are standing and talking. The 1st man says I think it is cold.
The 2nd man says I agree with you.
The 3rd man says but I think is warm and the 2nd man says I agree with you. The 4th man says to 2nd man, but they are saying the opposite, you can not agree with both.
The 2nd man responds I agree with you too.

I don't think that Mistrel or Antony are trying to stop you from stating your opinion, but in a short while that I have participated in DP, it seems to me that you very often agree with the last posting, so if it is anti-dmoz, your posting will be anti-dmoz and if it is pro, yours will be pro.

May be, it will be good, if you organise your own thoughts and decide where you stand on this question first before discussing it with others.
Damn, gworld! That was very well expressed :D

I think I should take lessons from you... might be better for my blood pressure :D

[Blogmaster]

Misntrel, DMOZ is under martial law, very unorganized and the ones in charge are washing their hands in innocence while the little ones are sent in here fighting and kept busy. If you want changes, aim high, and if you won't then stop blasting other people's efforts.

[anthonycea]

We are not spinning wheels as you say, these threads on DP have got more attention on the issues at DMOZ than any forum on the internet.

Minstrel has been a big part of that and now you are bashing Minstrel, that really makes no sense at all TOOT.

Look at all the editors that have joined here, Minstrel has found common ground with MACDESIGN, so what you say about Minstrel just bashing DMOZ is BS, he is looking at ideas from others.

I was the one who said that they should fire all the editors and go with automation, not Minstrel, he said that he would just like to see Google drop them and DMOZ to fade into the Sunset :o

[Blogmaster]

I am not bashing but I was being attacked for looking at the other side as well.

[Blogmaster]

Ac the DMOZ editors we see in here are mainly messengers. You want changes, try to do something that will be taken seriously by those who can make a difference. MacDesign is selling DMOZ info for crying out loud, one could argue is that offering 1k for a fast submission is the same thing, a fee to buy time. I will point out when someone is full of it as long as people are and sorry, I am seeing a lot of this on both sides and if you wanna waste my time, fine ...

[anthonycea]

No TOOT you were fired at one point by us because you ran off with DMOZ editors to your forum and left the discussion, then when you found out all the action was right here you came back and joined in again and we really to this day do not know where you really stand and you have lost a bit of trust :o

[Blogmaster]

No TOOT you were fired at one point by us because you ran off with DMOZ editors to your forum and left the discussion,
right, I was getting some info and insight on how DMOZ really works within which you guys don't have. If you wanna hate me for it, go ahead. But you don't wanna lose focus of what you are trying to do if indeed you do want to do something

[minstrel]

No. You are being attacked for trying to play both sides of the fence and then complaining because we aren't all racing over to join your blog or post in your forum.

[Blogmaster]

I am not trying to play any side, I am trying to mediate and tell you guys your energy should not be wasted alienating editors which would be more than willing to work with you guys if you were more open to ccommunication.

[Blogmaster]

I am not trying to play any side, I am trying to mediate and tell you guys your energy should not be wasted alienating editors which would be more than willing to work with you guys if you were more open to communication.
I never wanted to be in this whole DMOZ issue to begin with and most people wouldn't. When they banned me and reinstated me and PMed me I realized that those guys are not being themselves in forums. They cannot speak their minds without being held accountable within DMOZ. You can argue editors in here all you want, but you will get the same replies over and over again. They are being used as a mouthpiece for those YOU cannot reach. Stop wasting your time dude. You have so much energy, YOU could make a difference. If you REALLY want to that is :cool:

[anthonycea]

Well I would say we are doing a great job as these DMOZ threads are all blockbusters and many in the community have joined in and editors have joined in the discussion so I really don't know what you are talking about TOOT.....

[yarman]

OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY.

Round and round we go. Let's keep the personal chit chat to a minimum, so this thread holds some level of value to readers! ;)

Sitetutor despises many things at DMOZ but still has some pangs of hope for them sometimes. This leaves him with many emotions, but most everyone in this thread HATES something or other about DMOZ, so let's focus on what the problems with DMOZ are, and discuss that only.

For anyone who is seeking more than that, visit www.match.com :p

[gworld]

I am not trying to play any side, I am trying to mediate and tell you guys your energy should not be wasted alienating editors which would be more than willing to work with you guys if you were more open to ccommunication.

The problem is that "innocent" and "good" editors that you are talking about, have no power to work with anyone or change anything. The one's who can change something, are too financially or emotionally invested in DMOZ to want to change anything.

You can say as many time as you like: "If you want changes, aim high", the only problem is that you can aim as high as you like but when your gun has no bullet, you can't shoot.

AOL does not care about DMOZ or scandal, they have bigger problems (just see my previous post) and therefore change is not possible, the only solution is destruction of DMOZ by convincing Google to drop it.

[minstrel]

I am not trying to play any side, I am trying to mediate and tell you guys your energy should not be wasted alienating editors which would be more than willing to work with you guys if you were more open to communication.
Unlike you, I'll just speak for myself here: I don't need you or anyone else to mediate for me... thanks but no thanks. I can do that just fine by myself. And I will also decide how I want to waste my energy. I've already told you -- if you think there's a better way, go and do it. Knock yourself out. Just leave me the hell out of it and stop trying to tell me what I should be doing. For one thing, I think you are hopelessly naive and misguided and, in the end, just wrong. Given that, there is no chance I'm going to follow you, is there?

I never wanted to be in this whole DMOZ issue to begin with
Then just get the hell out -- who the hell is twisting your arm?

Stop wasting your time dude. You have so much energy, YOU could make a difference. If you REALLY want to that is
I will decide how I apply my energies and how I "waste my time". That is simply not for you to say.

[anthonycea]

OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY.

Round and round we go. Let's keep the personal chit chat to a minimum, so this thread holds some level of value to readers! ;)

Sitetutor despises many things at DMOZ but still has some pangs of hope for them sometimes. This leaves him with many emotions, but most everyone in this thread HATES something or other about DMOZ, so let's focus on what the problems with DMOZ are, and discuss that only.

For anyone who is seeking more than that, visit www.match.com :p

You will just have to adjust to what is going on here because it is not just going to stop, TOOT, Minstrel and I have been going back an fourth on this issue from the beginning and there are some things that need to be discussed that makes these threads tick.

Just read between the lines and you will find issues being discussed.

[Blogmaster]

Good, and the same goes for me. And I have NEVER attacked any of you guys before YOU started accusing me of selling out. I can be friends with as many DMOZ editors as I want to be. There are many ways to do something and blasting someone else's efforts is foolish. And by the way, it won't be me or you making THE difference but it depends on who is willing to come in and join and help take things to a higher level.

If we can get things accomplished in here, great, if not, try something else. Either ways, this has been going on for years and things have gotten worse. That is the reality of things. I have started my other thread for a reason so that some others are able to voice themselves, the ones that normally stay out of RZ and DMOZ DP all together. You'll be amazed what can be done.

Now look at Yarman's thread if you wanna see something interesting, this is too redundant.

[gworld]

And by the way, it won't be me or you making THE difference but it depends on who is willing to come in and join and help take things to a higher level.



Higher level? I didn't know that GOD was interested in DMOZ. :D

[minstrel]

I have NEVER attacked any of you guys before YOU started accusing me of selling out. I can be friends with as many DMOZ editors as I want to be. There are many ways to do something and blasting someone else's efforts is foolish.
Seriously, Toots, do yourself a favor: Before you dig yourself in any deeper, please either get some sleep or go back and read what you've posted in the past couple of days alone. You are losing contact with reality. :eek:

[Blogmaster]

The reality or as you perceive it, does not always match with what it will take to really create necessary change. Changes in DMOZ are important. The way things are going is very bad and has been getting worse. That is undeniable, when you attack a person instead of the reason behing the issue, you are missing the point. I think that Yarman has done something good by going here (http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=184430#post184430) as well but once again: You're right, it won't work but venting here is the key to it all !
Sorry!

[minstrel]

Sorry!
Aww... that's great, Toots. Thanks! Apology accepted. :D

[Blogmaster]

well...guess what.

im decking it out with DMOZ after all. having a little chit chat on the old RZ...
if anyone is interested in following my adventures, check it:

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=184360#post184360

peace ;)
unfortunately it's been moved.

[Blogmaster]

this is too funny http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38558 after all the depressing DMOZ threads, it's cool to see something you've never seen before.

[gworld]

Sitetutor

Since you like going to resource zone and dealing with editors, I think you will find this useful to take with you.

http://www.GentlemensCafe.com/11.jpg


:D

[yarman]

This answer from ishtar is interesting after your request that they should delete your site:

"I denied your requests for the Reference category. You have a website, we think it's useful to our users, so we choose to link to it. If you don't want us to link to it, then you should take the website off the Internet."

What arrogance :mad: , no wonder everybody hates these morons.

YAH DUDE. I discovered how to get into DMOZ (if you want to, which you shouldn't want to): PRETEND YOU DONT WANT TO BE IN DMOZ!!!

Those sorry wankers think Im actually trying to get deleted. I just wanted editors to update my DMOZ listing so it would have a more recent server submittal rating!!! AHAHAHA the 4ED algorithm on worldwide tracker base Eamry is working perfectly now. I OWN DMOZ. No matter what you say to them, they will do the opposite. So play their game. I got 50 editors to check out my site in a matter of 30 minutes!! Screw waiting around for 6 months!!!

PLAY...MY GAME WUAHAHAHAHAHAH...........

[Blogmaster]

your last posts on RZ were funny. You now have 3 user IDs banned and I saved those posts, will show them maybe later for others to enjoy as well :)

[yarman]

Sitetutor
Since you like going to resource zone and dealing with editors, I think you will find this useful to take with you.
:D

haha...thats rich.

[frankm]

Sitetutor

Since you like going to resource zone and dealing with editors, I think you will find this useful to take with you.


If THAT's not getting you banned from dmoz, what will ...