I think I have been "had" Help

[jentom]

Everyday I learn something new. We run 7 websites and are totally "self taught". This is the beginning of our 4th year and have been happy so far.
A few days ago BAM one of our sites is no where on Google. We had enjoyed #1,2 and rankings on several important keywords to us. (rewind)
A traffic company had been calling us for the last few years and I could finally afford to use their services. After a series of goofs and delays, their program was finally put in place. Almost 30 days to the date we disappeared from google. I called the company and they said it was not their fault that google had a problem and something like 8% of the domains were dropped because of althogriam (sp) changed.
The service cost me over a $1,000. Have I been "had"? Is there a chance I could ever get back in google? What should be my next step?
I am on disablity and the income I get from this website is the "extra" I need.
Any help would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you ever so much in advance.
Jen
www.biloxione.com

[disgust]

yes, you've been "had." they sound very sketchy. what company was it?

the bottom line is this: in the seo business, you should come to them, not them come to you. that alone is enough to make me think they're really horrible.

the only "sure" way to get back into google would be to get a new domain name. you could also try removing everything they did to your site and emailing google, but there's no guarantee this will work.

[jentom]

How can I check for sure to make sure just maybe it wasn't something they did that got me booted off google?

[Such Great Heights]

Well do you know what they actually did?

And I mean not just what they told you they did, but actually what changed on your pages when they did whatever they do?

If you know exactly then I don't see why taking that out and e-mailing Google wouldn't solve it.

I'd imagine that with the "sketchy-ness" of this SEO place they might have told you something general when they did a couple specific things (probably against Google's TOS) and you were unaware.

Although I could be wrong. :)

[jentom]

I don't understand their "system" but they added invisible links to the bottom of my front page and extra pages to our site.
I asked them if it was illegal and they said they were experts and a big company and they wouldn't be in business if what they were doing was wrong. I would mention the company, but until I am sure it is them that caused us to go off google, guess I need to be discreet.
I don't know!!!
just frustrated as hec right now. sorry...
Maybe you can tell by viewing source at www.biloxione.com

[TheHoff]

Yes, you've definitely been had by someone doing something that they know is expressly against the Google guidelines.


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[ferret77]

those are just little tiny links

[Old Welsh Guy]

Jen I have PM'd you a link that I don't think should be posted on the forum with regard the company your talking about.

OWG

[Such Great Heights]

Yes, you've definitely been had by someone doing something that they know is expressly against the Google guidelines.


Well there is your answer ... :(

[DarrenC]

OWG - I agree why you have taken the company concerned out of the discussion, but for the sakes of other innocent webmasters don't you think it should be mentioned who this company is.

What they have done is shocking!

Darren

[Michael]

...it should be mentioned who this company is.

Absolutely agree, name and shame, and at the same time you could send them an invite to come here and defend the indefensible. (With zero probability of them showing up).

[disgust]

he PM'd me the company.

they've been mentioned here and on other SEO forums quite a bit. it's not new news at all.

[jentom]

Ok I admit ..... I have learned wheelbarrows full the last few hours.
Thank you James for heading me in the right direction. I will probably be up til dawn reading what I should have read before I signed the dotted line....
It was Traffic-Power and one of the best sites I found with info was www.trafficpowersucks.com
Guess this is all old news to ya'll. :(
Thank you ever so much for your replies. Looks like we are going to have a long row to hoe to recover from three years of our good work and lose alot of revenue (not to mention the fees).
Thanks.
Jen

[Razvan Pop]

Take a look here: http://www.seoconsultants.com/traffic-power/

You are not the only one. Almost all their clients were banned.

[jentom]

Thanks!!! I am there now reading with blood shot eyes lol
I had talked to that salesman for 3 years!!!! I even talked to him today.
Oh, Big buddies,,,, I have talked to him more than some of my cousins in the last few years.
If he can sleep at night with a clear conscience, he doesn't have one.

Thanks bunches!
jen

[Razvan Pop]

Look what i have found:
www traffic-power us
Check this
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:www.traffic-power.us&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=ISO-8859-1&strip=1


<br>
<p class="nasserdine">
<a class="nasserdine" href="http://www.traffic-power.us/traffic-power.us_sitemap.html">Site Map</a> -
<a class="nasserdine" href="http://www.traffic-power.us/traffic-power.us_friends.html">Our Friends</a><br>


And css code

.nasserdine {
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 1px;
color: #FCFCFC;
background-color: #FFFFFF;
visibility: hidden;
}


Be aware!

[leeds1]

The funny thing is when you have a look at the cache the links come up becuase it's not using the css (well in netscape anyway !)

This is google's view so they know what it's all about

[Old Welsh Guy]

Jen,

You now have a choice, do you say goodbye to the money, or do you say goodbye to your rankings and business? If you do not give ANY company the opportunity to put things right, then you are probably not going to win a legal argument.

Make sure you grab all their code, put your old site back up (I know you have it) fire off an email to help@google.com and lay out your case, clearly, and unemotionally. Tell them that you trusted this company, and immediately you found out there was a problem you removed all trace of the work they had done. Place a link to your site in the email.

And say a prayer before you send it.

The crux here is going to be when the material was removed, do it right away and you have half a chance of getting back in. It may be right away, may be 3 months, may be 6 months, who knows?

the sad fact is that in the eyes of Google you are now a spammer, and will be treated with a little contempt. You need to beg and grovel and be absolutely honest. Tell G that you saved for 3 years to be able to affod this comwork, and that now it has all gone wrong.

I am not saying it is going to help you, but I think itis safe to say that if you go down the route of 'hey where has my page gone buddy' your probably going to get an automated response! This way you might well get a personalised one.

HtH


OWG

[jentom]

Thanks again. You are so right even Judge Judy asks if the defendent was given a chance to "make it right". I am kinda lucky in the fact that I had made a down payment and the payments were to start 90 days after the campaign had started. The day I called , Thursday, to tell them my site was down, a payment was debited to my account ahead of schedule. I will be at the bank this morning when they open. Maybe I can save $500 of my money.

Here is something I found interesting. I always check my awstats for "not Found" files and page errors, There were so many I couldn't believe it and files I was so unfamiliar with and shocked to have on my site.
Such as:
/downloadable_porn_movie.html 1 -
/bonita_porn_movie.html
/Credit+and+Debit+Cards-in-Lond
/oldporn_movie.html
/sweet_delights.html 1 -
/freemovie_porn_trailer.html
/interracial_porn_movie.html
(we use Front Page so our files end in htm)

I also noticed on search engine crawls for yesterday:
6 different robots* - Hits Bandwidth - Last visit
Jeeves 178 3.64 MB 01 Jul 2004 - 19:04
Inktomi Slurp 52 1.25 MB 01 Jul 2004 - 17:54
Unknown robot 10 22.41 01 Jul 2004 - 15:04
(identified by 'spider')
Unknown robot 11 465.65 KB 01 Jul 2004 - 13:03
(identified by 'crawl')
Googlebot (Google) 7 134.75 KB 01 Jul 2004 - 12:00
Unknown robot 1 23.71 KB 01 Jul 2004 - 00:01
(identified by 'robot')

Links from a search Engine in May
- Google 2181 2194
- Yahoo 2011 2118
- MSN 1965 1973
-
Links from a search Engine today
- MSN 118 118
- Yahoo 96 98
- Ask Jeeves 12 12
- Unknown search engines 6 6
- Dogpile 2 2
- Google 2 2
- AllTheWeb 1 1
- Excite 1 1

Does this mean I may stand a chance if I remove their "work"?

I don't know if the numbers mean anything to what has happened or not.
Thought maybe you could shed some light on it for me.

Thanks again for all of your help.
Jen

[ephricon]

http://www.traffic-power.com/sep-faq.html#25

[disgust]

people have mentioned that they're being contact by these people by telephone..

how are they harvesting phone numbers? do they just randomly look up domain names and call the owners?

[SEbasic]

http://www.traffic-power.com/sep-faq.html#25


Wow... That site is such a joke!

They say that they don't use doorway pages, yet have something called SEE's. (?)

They are not a bit fan of foums either (wonder why ; )
I really would like to call these guys up and ask them to give me a quote, and tell me exactly what they will do to the site.

Maybe I should show them an already seo'd site and see what they want to do with that...

Man, they would get so mad with all the questions I asked. lol.

Jen, I'm really sorry that you got burnt. I hope that you don't have a bad impression of ALL SEO's now. Not everyone is like that.

All I can suggest, is for you to buy a new domain, join in with the forums, and get a good idea of what you need to do in order to SEO a site yourself.

There are some great articles out there that can be of real help when you are just learning. In a couple of weeks, you could have picked up the key points of SEO, and understand how to use them really well.

If you do decide to employ another SEO, here are a few suggestions.

Download the Google Toolbar. Make sure the Page rank meter is switched on. WHen you do your research for a good SEO, make sure that their site hasn't been *grey barred*. This basically means that they either have a new site, or that they have been either penalised or banned by Google.

Ask the company EXACTLY what they will be doing. Make a note, then go online and ask people (in forums normally) if this is the right thing to be doing.

Make sure you get to see LIVE examples of work that they have performed in the past, and also some testimonials. If possible, try and speak with some of the site owners themselves, and see what they think of the work that has been done.

GET IT IN WRITING. If you do get stung, make sure that you have (in writing), what they said would be delivered.

Use your instincs. If you don't trust the company, don't use them.

Hope this could be of help

SE

[sarahk]

And today from Google-Guy
http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness/seo/wpn-4-20040630GoogleBansSEOFirmanditsClients.html
under the heading

Google Bans SEO Firm And It's Clients
GoogleGuy recently broke his silence to confirm that Google has taken action against an SEO firm and it's clients for spammy techniques. The SEO company convinced some its clients to use javascript redirects and place hidden links to doorway pages created by the firm. GoogleGuy explains:

[misohoni]

well I'm glad Google have started this. Sorry to hear you got conned, but their techniques effect all use honest web masters...

[DarrenC]

It's outrageous that people can get pissed about like this. This kinda thing puts the SEO industry under a even darker picture than it already has.

After the experience I had when I started the business I'd never employ an SEO again.

[gail]

Google will never put up your domain again, if your site is banned. You will have to start over.

[disgust]

that's not entirely true.

you can send reinclusion requests if traffic power or a similar site got you banned. calmly explain to google what happened, and it's possible that you'll be reincluded.

googleguy's actually mentioned this

it's also quite possible that you won't be, but it's worth a shot :)

[Old Welsh Guy]

Google will never put up your domain again, if your site is banned. You will have to start over.

NEVER, is too strong a word. ordinarily it can take 6-12 months minimum to get re-instated into Google. But If you have been done by TP, then you can get back in very quickly. We have just seen a site get back in by simply going through every bit of code on every single page, and removing the hidden links in the code. It was very intense and time consuming, but it worked.

The site has to be 100% clean, without a trace. One single line of TP code is going to dirty your nest, and then Lord knows what will happen with regard getting back in.

Google take this sort of action when they are getting grossly abused, remember 'search king'?

[NewComputer]

Google will never put up your domain again, if your site is banned. You will have to start over.

What kind of rubbish is that? They will reinclude, if you have a valid reason. I think the original poster does. I know of 2 sites that have been included after being banned.

[jentom]

First major big thanks for all of the help, information and support.
I just dropped in to add an update and search for more information to help me on SEO.
TP has agreed to refund my money. My complaint went beyond just the Google thing. The whole ordeal was a fiasco from the word go.
I still haven't received my funds. My fingers are still crossed. But I do have hope since they have committed themselves to the refund.
They did offer to go in and clean my site up, but I refused. The last time they went in they denied us access, which didn't set too well with me as we update every few days.
We attempted to "clean" the site ourselves. Question: How can I be certain my site is totally clean?
I have not contacted Google for reinclusion yet as I want to be perfectly clean.
Any suggestions?
Thanks bunches to all of you!
Jen

[Old Welsh Guy]

Hi Jen, ther really is no easy way, you are going to have to go through every single line on every single page on the site, plus any style sheets used.

You are going to have to look for includes as well, as they could be calling them from anywhere. It really is a case of line by line, every single action of every bit of code scrutinised and understood.

[djarcadian]

Yes, please tell us who they are,.

[jentom]

djarcadian, You may have missed an earlier post, it was Traffic Power.

Welsh Guy....Thanks, Just as I thought I had it all..... when I check my 404's I see request for their phoney pages (sigh). They did offer to clean the site but I have gotten weary of giving them my password and allowing them into the site again. We are totally self taught and try to manage more sites than we can. I will start right away going line by line, I sure miss the revenue our site once had.

Thanks for your input and advice.
Jen

[Trance-formation]

You now have a choice, do you say goodbye to the money, or do you say goodbye to your rankings and business? If you do not give ANY company the opportunity to put things right, then you are probably not going to win a legal argument.

I recall that in the UK there is an arguement one can use that one has justifiably lost faith in the company's ability to put things right... from what I have seen in this thread, I would not let these guys near my kettle, let alone a website!!

[dluvs2]

Jen I am sorry to hear about this. It's sad there are companies out there who knowingly do this...for profit.

I hope you at least get your rankings back. The others' are right. Never deal with someone who approaches you. It's like clicking on a link in an email from a sender you do not recognize. You never know what will happen, it's just best not to do it.

I hope you come out on top.

PS look into filing a small claims suit against the company.

[tke71709]

Jen I am sorry to hear about this. It's sad there are companies out there who knowingly do this...for profit.

I hope you at least get your rankings back. The others' are right. Never deal with someone who approaches you. It's like clicking on a link in an email from a sender you do not recognize. You never know what will happen, it's just best not to do it.

I hope you come out on top.

PS look into filing a small claims suit against the company.

Maybe if all this hadn't happened over 3 years ago...

Seriously, how did you manage to dig up a thread this old?