Paypal debt collectors :(

[crazyryan]

When I walked in from school my mum said that paypal debt collectors sent us a letter through the post.

I now owe them £85. What do they expect me too do, i'm only 14 so .. how can i afford that. My mum is gonna pay it but jeez, it's not my fault someone opened a dispute.

[eddy2099]

Pay it. Don't you know that you cannot actually open a Paypal account as you need to be 18 before you can do so. Take that as a lesson and move on.

Just return the £85 which you can withdraw. It is not that they are asking more than what you have collected.

[yfs1]

Technically you don't owe them a dime though since a 14 year old cannot legally enter a contract.

[Yellowberry.org]

if some open a dispute you bloody answer to that one. And keep on answer until you blooody win. Then you pay if you have to and if you are only 14 you can

1. Close the account tell them i am 14 i am not paying.
2. Keep the account and pay and ssshhhh about it.

i would take 2

[noppid]

There are three sides to every story. It's unlikely that we will hear 2 of them.

If the PP acount is in your name, there still is a bank account associated with it. Close that account ASAP! Ignore the letter and pay nothing.

If the PP acount is in MOM's name either pay or continue the dispute and try to win.

Paypal sucks.

[daboss]

hey man, gbp 85 isn't that much... just do the right thing and pay it... that way, you stay clean... ;)

[crazyryan]

Technically you don't owe them a dime though since a 14 year old cannot legally enter a contract.

my mum rung them up complaining because i have 300 in a limited account and why dont paypal just take it from that

and then she says well, my sons 14 so im ringing on his behalf and the person said i dont think you'll have too pay then so.. hopefully i wont. my dad has too email paypal later tonight, either way my mum will bail me of if i have too .. so

im not gonna use paypal anymore either way

[Sem-Advance]

I doubt you owe anything as a minor you cannot enter into a valid contract it would seem and as such Paypal made the error in accepting you.

I'm just a bit lost as I had to go through sending my ID and tax information to them :confused:

Didnt they ask for yours and realize how old you were?

[ZachG]

What do you mean 85gbp isn't that much? That's like $160 here :(

[yfs1]

I doubt you owe anything as a minor you cannot enter into a valid contract it would seem and as such Paypal made the error in accepting you.

I'm just a bit lost as I had to go through sending my ID and tax information to them :confused:

Didnt they ask for yours and realize how old you were?

Correct me if I am wrong but is the reason your other account is frozen because you haven't supplied any details (Things like Credit Cards, Bank Accounts which would go some way in proving you are 18+)

If they have frozen your money because of your age, then definately don't pay them (Again if everything is in your name). They can't have their cake and eat it too.

What do you mean 85gbp isn't that much? That's like $160 here

weak dollar :p

[eddy2099]

It is sick that Paypal or any online merchant just have to take the rap because you as a minor falsify your signup and pretend to be over 18 and then cheat them of the money and now use the Minor card and blame them for it and not want to pay.

I know in a face-to-face, they can see you are a minor and if they allow you to sign up, that's their fault.

But on an online signup, the terms and conditions was in front of you, they cannot see you, they take it in good faith that you are who you say you are. Now you blame them for accepting you as a minor and don't want to pay. How would they have known you are not who you say you are when you do not supply any identification, I mean it is not like your IP address could indicate your age or anything.

It is sick that you guys are recommending playing this card. It is not like Paypal is in the wrong here. Tell me, how can they work differently in this case, how can they determine the OP is a minor and reject the signup outright ? It is Online signup, guys.

If this happens to you, instead of Paypal, would you be laughing your way to the bank and say 'Oops, I signed up a kid, well he cannot legally contract with me and so he doesn't need to pay me, he can do anything he wants because he is a minor. I am happy that he does this because I cannot have my cake and eat it but he is a minor so it is okay.'

Guys, don't go around and give him the license to play the minor card. He has 4 more years before he turn 18 and that means 4 more years to have the license to go around, purchase things and refuse to pay or take responsibility and bring out the minor card. Is this what you want him to grow up to be, someone without any sense of morals and obligations, one who does not read simple rules, refuse to respond to disputes and pretend that by doing nothing would solve all the problems of the world. Wake up to reality. You need to grow up to be responsible citizens of the world and your actions have consequences and you have to live with them. This is dealing with people's hard-earn money.

[Sem-Advance]

It is sick that Paypal or any online merchant just have to take the rap because you as a minor falsify your signup and pretend to be over 18 and then cheat them of the money and now use the Minor card and blame them for it and not want to pay.

I know in a face-to-face, they can see you are a minor and if they allow you to sign up, that's their fault.

But on an online signup, the terms and conditions was in front of you, they cannot see you, they take it in good faith that you are who you say you are. Now you blame them for accepting you as a minor and don't want to pay. How would they have known you are not who you say you are when you do not supply any identification, I mean it is not like your IP address could indicate your age or anything.

It is sick that you guys are recommending playing this card. It is not like Paypal is in the wrong here. Tell me, how can they work differently in this case, how can they determine the OP is a minor and reject the signup outright ? It is Online signup, guys.

If this happens to you, instead of Paypal, would you be laughing your way to the bank and say 'Oops, I signed up a kid, well he cannot legally contract with me and so he doesn't need to pay me, he can do anything he wants because he is a minor. I am happy that he does this because I cannot have my cake and eat it but he is a minor so it is okay.'

Actually since they deal in banking issues they have regulatory affairs and laws they have to follow.

Next thats a kid your jumping on ...at 14 were you as wise as you think you are now???

He clearly sees his mistake and it seems went to do this without his parents knowledge or oversite...that is his only sin if there is one there.

Thirdly, you open a business there are things you must do and pay for at times in order to be in business...these are things known as the "cost of doing business" losses are one, fraud is one, insurance claims, making bad loans, opening an account for a minor, poor marketing choices, bad health care insurance policies etc etc...

Lastly....Paypals actions are as bad as the credit card companies that send credit cards to college students who never applied for them....

Paypal has the millions of dollars to absorb the loss....it would appear thew child does not nor do his parents seem to be millionaires...

And another thing ...if he did falsify the application.....what so wrong with a 14 year old wanting to work and make money??? New era...new world order..news flash for you and paypal.... we have 16 year olds who own multi million dollar businesses online...I think age should have nothing to do with openning a bank account....those kids are better qualified to have one than quite a few adults
========================================================

Yes yfs you are correct though there are other reasons they do the security checks...

Peace

[eddy2099]

Sem-Advance,

So you are saying that I can get my kid to purchase from you and then refuse to pay and just tell you he is a minor so you have to accept it as business loss ?

Well, when I was young, my parents thought me that my actions have consequences and my teachers thought me to read the rules and to behave or else I would suffer the consequences.

If he is guilty, owning up here does not change anything. He should return the money and take that as a lesson.

[Sem-Advance]

Sem-Advance,

So you are saying that I can get my kid to purchase from you and then refuse to pay and just tell you he is a minor so you have to accept it as business loss ?

Well, when I was young, my parents thought me that my actions have consequences and my teachers thought me to read the rules and to behave or else I would suffer the consequences.

If thats what happens then yes....

I know the things you were taught....

and the adults at Paypal have been taught how to run their business properly.....

their failure to do so is not the kids fault.....if anything he deserves a hand for showing Paypal a security flaw.....

want to know the killer part???

He isnt the first kid to do it either...and I know that for fact :D

So now whos at fault...the kids...or paypal for not adding a credit card ownership verification step to their sign up...instituted by the adult industry years ago????

Its all just bureacracy and votes that decides how strictly laws are enforced..

Kid gets my support and if you feel so bad for Paypal you wont mind paying his debt correct???

[eddy2099]

So basically you are saying that it is alright for a kid to be irresponsible and have total disregard for anything.

It is not about the money here. It is just that what you are doing is telling kids that there is a loophole in the law of contracts and that they have every right to abuse it and not be responsible for anything. The kid would then grow up to be irresponsible.

If I pay the kid debt, it means that I condone to what he is doing and I cannot accept that.

Paypal does have a system to provide a limited account to those who have unverified account and only increase the limits for those who are verified via credit card or bank account. It is just that not everyone has a credit card here. I had to verify my account via credit card.

I mean he done wrong, fine but the thing is that I cannot agree with the rest of you who teach him to be irresponsible. It is just not right.

[Connections]

lol, thats notihng I had a fine of around $900 usd a while ago from carrying a open bottle onto a train station i thought it was the most stupid fine ever and never paid it for 1 year as it was just revenue raising, I had to pay it eventually when I was only 17 as they froze my drivers licence I am 19 now and believe me if you mess around and dont pay things it can stuff your credit raiting for life, sure i know you feel like shit dishing out the $$$ but you have to....just sell one of your sites off or sell some services to make the $$$ its not hard to make $$$$

[Fahd]

When I walked in from school my mum said that paypal debt collectors sent us a letter through the post.

I now owe them £85. What do they expect me too do, i'm only 14 so .. how can i afford that. My mum is gonna pay it but jeez, it's not my fault someone opened a dispute.

What does the dispute say? People generally dispute when they pay for something and don't get what was promised. It is possible you were a victim of fraud, but we won't know until you tell us the details of the dispute.

Either way, good luck with this!

[checksum]

Just let your mom pay the fee and take a cut in your allowance. Take this as a lesson when dealing with people online, don't try to sneak away from your responsibilities.

[aeiouy]

It is paypal's responsibility to make sure people are of legal age. Just like it is a credit card companies responsibility. If a kid gets a credit card and then rings up charges, the credit card company is going to have to eat. Same here with Paypal.

[checksum]

If I was this persons parent I would be be making him pay regardless of the legalities. He knew what he was doing. I'm not his parent though so what I say has little consequence.

[FlyingBear]

why paypal sent debt collector to get you? you got payment but did not deliver products? why someone opened a dispute against you?

If that's the case, although you are 14, you may not need pay it, but your parents will have to pay it. Your age is not the excuse of avoiding your responsibility.


bear

[eddy2099]

It is paypal's responsibility to make sure people are of legal age. Just like it is a credit card companies responsibility. If a kid gets a credit card and then rings up charges, the credit card company is going to have to eat. Same here with Paypal.


So you are saying that a kid can be as irresponsible as they want because the other party must always give in. That the kid can totally disregard contracts, warnings and TOS and have your blessings to do what is morally wrong ?

The contract with minor clause works in the good old days where contracts are signed and done face to face but in the world of the internet, it is just not possible.

So how far you want a vendor to go to verify the other party's age, ask for a birth certificate, a photo ID or visit the office so as to complete the deal. I mean some of you would cite invasion of privacy when say a payment provider calls up the customer to ask if they make the purchase or when some payment processor ask you to fax or scan your passport or driving license to proof your true identity.

When was the last time you dealt with customers online and go to the extend to determine who they really are and if they can legally deal ? I see web sites and web services bought and sold here with only a Paypal Payment and maybe a DNS Registrar User ID and the deal is done. When was the last time you asked for a birth certificate, Photo ID or the likes ?

If you don't like Paypal, it does not give you the license to fraud it or not take responsibility.

[Connections]

If I was this persons parent I would be be making him pay regardless of the legalities. He knew what he was doing. I'm not his parent though so what I say has little consequence.


yes true, they will go after his parents as they are the ones who own the credit card to get into paypal to start with, obviously this kid has not read the TOS or paypal aswell and has made a breach in it, his parents are at fault.

If you dont pay the fine they will give your parents or yourself a BAD credit rating for life and also they will just come and REPO your good liek you TV, computer or mobile phone any thing they can sell to make back the 85 pound...they dont take beds or clothes or food lol

[yfs1]

It isn't fraud or a "loophole"..These laws are in place to protect minors. Paypal is fully aware that minors can easily use their service and it is their responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen. 14 year olds are not mature or responsible enough to enter into a contract...period.

Paypals greed doesn't give them a right to put a 14 year old in a situation where they are pushed into a financial mistake that can follow them around the rest of their life.

It is a pet peeve of mine that Paypal purposely doesn't verify age in order to expand their customer base. They have made loads of money off the backs of minors so the whole "scamming" finger is mispointed. The reason they don't verify age is that the money they make from minors well outweighs the money they are unable to claim back.

If they were losing money, you would see age verification within minutes.

What they are doing is wrong and the law is clearly on the minors side.

So you are saying that a kid can be as irresponsible as they want because the other party must always give in. That the kid can totally disregard contracts, warnings and TOS and have your blessings to do what is morally wrong ?

The contract with minor clause works in the good old days where contracts are signed and done face to face but in the world of the internet, it is just not possible.

So how far you want a vendor to go to verify the other party's age, ask for a birth certificate, a photo ID or visit the office so as to complete the deal. I mean some of you would cite invasion of privacy when say a payment provider calls up the customer to ask if they make the purchase or when some payment processor ask you to fax or scan your passport or driving license to proof your true identity.

When was the last time you dealt with customers online and go to the extend to determine who they really are and if they can legally deal ? I see web sites and web services bought and sold here with only a Paypal Payment and maybe a DNS Registrar User ID and the deal is done. When was the last time you asked for a birth certificate, Photo ID or the likes ?

If you don't like Paypal, it does not give you the license to fraud it or not take responsibility.

[eddy2099]

So basically what you are saying is that the minor can do whatever they want without consequence.

Without a face-to-face, how do you propose that we can be sure we are not dealing with minors online, ie like ensuring they do not use fake ID or ignoring TOS or even ordering from you ?

[turhapuro]

Now listen kids and adults, listen to Sir. Uuno!

I have been taught that if you see money, you take it, if you see woman,
you take it, take everything and leave others nothing! Trust Uuno! Take
all and leave others nothing, thats the way for a better life, and while you
are at it, steal others content too, this way you can work faster..... Well
maybe thats not that good idea after all, you could get sued. Anyway its
right to steal if you don\t get caught, my father was wise enough to point
that out to me. I cant understand all these flower people that want to share
things, thats like un natural and stupid, why would you share with others
when you can keep it all to your self? Cause it makes you happy? Buy drugs
and be happy....:mad:

[yfs1]

So basically what you are saying is that the minor can do whatever they want without consequence.

When it comes to entering legal contracts, absolutely. Thats why anyone entering a legal contract with a minor without verifying their age does so at their own risk.

The law is very clear and is extremely important.

I have been taught that if you see money, you take it, if you see woman,
you take it, take everything and leave others nothing! Trust Uuno! Buy drugs
and be happy....

Lol, thanks for your contribution :rolleyes:

[eddy2099]

So how do you propose we can be sure we do not deal with minors online when we cannot see the other party in question ?

[Connections]

I dont know what countries you people are from but it doesnt matter what age your from in my country if your a 14 year old paypal would sue the family.

Just pay it off you have obviously done something dodgey for paypal to be after you.

[yfs1]

So how do you propose we can be sure we do not deal with minors online when we cannot see the other party in question ?

If you are entering into small contracts like buying their sites, you can IM with them and try to get an idea of their age. Obviously you aren't going to request proof of age if its a $50 transaction. Having a contract nullified is part of the risk of doing business.

If it was a large contract, I would definately request proof of age. If you weren't confident they weren't a minor, I would just forget about the deal.

In this particular case, Paypal is actually trying to take advantage of a minor. If you reread the thread you will see Paypal froze his funds due to his minor status in one account (Which had a few hundred pounds) yet sent a collection letter for £85 on the other one due to someone claiming back.

Their refusal to let the minor "settle up" just goes to show what lengths companies will go to to take advantage of a minors inability to enter a contract.

This thread is actually a perfect example of why minor DO NEED the protection the law provides.

Are minors always the innocent ones? Yes, they are purely based on their amount of life experience and maturity. It can suck if you truly are in a situation where a minor with this knowledge takes advantage of you but you have to try to be vigilant.

I don't know the law if they set out to scam you from the beggining (and you can prove it). In that situation their may be some recourse against the parents. In the case of Paypal though, they are not being scammed by Ryannn

I dont know what countries you people are from but it doesnt matter what age your from in my country if your a 14 year old paypal would sue the family.

What is your country?

[eddy2099]

The TOS states

1 Eligibility. In order to use the Service, you must register for a Personal, Premier or Business account (an "account"). In order to receive card funded payments or use the Service to accept payment in the conduct of a business, you must register for a Premier or Business account. You may only hold one Personal account and either one Premier or one Business account. Our Services are only available to individuals or businesses that can form legally binding contracts under applicable law. Our Service is not available to individuals under the age of 18 years. We may refuse to provide our Service, change the qualifications for your use of the Service and/or terminate this Agreement with you at any time on giving you notice by email, such notice to take immediate effect.

If you read the User Agreement, it clearly states that Paypal is not for anyone under 18 and they have the right to terminate the contract. So you are saying that Paypal is doing wrong by freezing his account because they found out he is a minor ?

You only heard from the minor, he was dishonest with Paypal, what makes you think he is honestly telling you the truth here and not hide anything ? For all you know, the kid was dishonest in his dealing with his customers which was above and beyond the several hundreds already in his account and the £85 is that amount.

It is also possible that Paypal realizing he is a minor is now returning all the funds he has frauduently collected to his customers.

Wouldn't you say that the right thing to do as parents and as mature adults would be to teach our kids responsibility instead of telling them to have no regards for responsibility and that they can do anything they like without consequences. The law is one thing but being morally responsible is another.

[yfs1]

The TOS states

If you read the User Agreement, it clearly states that Paypal is not for anyone under 18 and they have the right to terminate the contract. So you are saying that Paypal is doing wrong by freezing his account because they found out he is a minor ?

No, his account should be terminated absolutely..What is wrong is keeping the money in his account yet still trying to collect other money.

You only heard from the minor, he was dishonest with Paypal, what makes you think he is honestly telling you the truth here and not hide anything ? For all you know, the kid was dishonest in his dealing with his customers which was above and beyond the several hundreds already in his account and the £85 is that amount.

Of course he could be lying...He could be making up the £85 part or even having a Paypal account in the first place. My advice is only based on the facts presented and if they were completely true, I stand by it.

If not, it would be for a court to decide on who would actually have all the facts

It is also possible that Paypal realizing he is a minor is now returning all the funds he has frauduently collected to his customers.
That actually isn't their policy. I have never seen a case where they did that without a claim in place. It doesn't change the fact that a contract never actually existed so no money should be owed by either party.

Wouldn't you say that the right thing to do as parents and as mature adults would be to teach our kids responsibility instead of telling them to have no regards for responsibility and that they can do anything they like without consequences. The law is one thing but being morally responsible is another.

He should definately have to take responsibility but I don't believe Paypal should profit from it. If it was my kid, I would refuse to give Paypal a dime for letting my minor child get into this mess. I would then make him work his ass off around the house and for neighbours to make that £85 and donate it to a suitable charity.

[Sem-Advance]

yes true, they will go after his parents as they are the ones who own the credit card to get into paypal to start with, obviously this kid has not read the TOS or paypal aswell and has made a breach in it, his parents are at fault.

If you dont pay the fine they will give your parents or yourself a BAD credit rating for life and also they will just come and REPO your good liek you TV, computer or mobile phone any thing they can sell to make back the 85 pound...they dont take beds or clothes or food lol


They cannot go after his parents.

Do not need a credit card to get a paypal account.

They cannot repo anything in this situation.

They can barely effect your credit rating... much less damage it for life.

Peace

[Connections]

They cannot go after his parents.

Do not need a credit card to get a paypal account.

They cannot repo anything in this situation.

They can barely effect your credit rating... much less damage it for life.

Peace


It all depends how he set up this account, my guess is the account was set up with his mums credit card???

my guess is that paypal will go after the mum, the mum will get the bad credit rating, if its not paid.

the kid will just cop it lol and have to pay back his mum hehehehe...


but its hard to make these comments, different countries have different laws, some of the posts people on here are making makes it fell liek their from china or something lol.

[yfs1]

It all depends how he set up this account, my guess is the account was

That is a pretty big assumption there isn't it?

[Sem-Advance]

That is a pretty big assumption there isn't it?

Yes it is and considering hes 14 he most likely does not have a credit card

Next to use the credit card it has to match the account holders name...

Since the account holder is 14 and cannot have a credit card legally in his name there is in all probability 99% chance a credit card was not used.


Next I do not get all the people who are defending Paypal when Paypal itself advised that the child most likely would not have to pay.

Ryann Said
my mum rung them up complaining because i have 300 in a limited account and why dont paypal just take it from that

and then she says well, my sons 14 so im ringing on his behalf and the person said i dont think you'll have too pay then so.. hopefully i wont.


I would presume rung them up would mean them is Paypal

and the person is not his mum, but the Paypal Customer Service Rep

If Paypal admits they've made a mistake ....whats all the fuss about????:confused:

[Connections]

Man its life, its like taking out a loan with a bank with borrowed money, you take out the loan and you use equity from a friend, you go bankrupt then the bank takes your friends house aswell. Yet your friends say why me? why me?
well it was your choice to use them and your friend has let you!

Some one payed for this kids internet connection! it was your choice to give your son the credit card etc etc!


But if the kid feels like he wants to fight this, it will involve legal action and if he cant afford 85 bucks how is he going afford court costs lol to fight paypal, sending a letter or making a call will not work with these big companies becuase in the end they dont care, all they care about is getting their money back.


If you owe some one money, pay it back, its not hard.

This is a silly argument to be gettign into, it seems liek a lot of people really hate paypal on here.

[yfs1]

Man its life, its like taking out a loan with a bank with borrowed money, you take out the loan and you use equity from a friend, you go bankrupt then the bank takes your friends house aswell. Yet your friends say why me? why me?
well it was your choice to use them and your friend has let you!

Some one payed for this kids internet connection! it was your choice to give your son the credit card etc etc!


But if the kid feels like he wants to fight this, it will involve legal action and if he cant afford 85 bucks how is he going afford court costs lol to fight paypal, sending a letter or making a call will not work with these big companies becuase in the end they dont care, all they care about is getting their money back.


If you owe some one money, pay it back, its not hard.

This is a silly argument to be gettign into, it seems liek a lot of people really hate paypal on here.


Connections - It has nothing to do with hating Paypal. This is a legal situation and has nothing to do with the "Co-signer" example you gave. If your freind co-signs a loan, I can guarantee the bank verified their age and they signed an agreement that their property would eb at risk.

As far as court costs, there would be none. Paypal already admitted its mistake and even if it didn't, Ryannn would not need legal representation (They couldn't sue a minor anyway)

In this day of computers in schools etc, What if a 6 year old signed up for Paypal...Are you telling me they should be financially responsible?

[Jasonb]

Yer man thats about $170 or something, the only reason they would have opend a dispute is becouse you must have tryd skanking them some how, they must have sent you £85 first mate, i also think there is more important things to be talking and thinking about.

[eddy2099]

I am recalling what I've learnt in school about the Contract Law, if I am not wrong, when in contract with a minor, the contract can be voidable by the minor. However when the contract is void, all moneys and goods must be returned. The seller can reclaim the goods delivered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voidable explains what voidable is.


So for example, say if a minor enters a pet store and purchase a pet dog. The sales is not final. The minor can return the dog and get his money back.

It does not mean that he can change his mind, keep the dog and get the money back. A voidable contract is one which would put both parties in the position where the contract never happened. By not returning the money, the contract is not void because someone is at a disadvantage.

This explains it best http://www.sylaw.org/docs/Contracting.htm

What if an adult makes a contract with a minor because the minor claims to be over eighteen?

If a minor lies about his or her age when signing a contract, and the other person had good reasons to believe that the minor was capable of making a contract, the minor will not be allowed to cancel the contract.


So in the signup form of Paypal, there is the terms and conditions, there is a checkbox to tick to affirms that the person who sign up agrees to the terms. By doing so, the minor lies about being above 18 and at that stage, Paypal doesn't have any reasons to doubt it. So in this case, under Common Law, the minor cannot be freed from the contract.

http://www.answers.com/topic/contract

If one party is unjustly enriched by a contract that he or she then repudiates legally, restitution may be required. A typical example of this is ordering a minor who revokes a contract to restore the things of value that were obtained.

http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/contract_law/contract_valid.htm

My 15-year old son, who looks older, just signed a contract to purchase a computer. Is the contract valid?

No, the contract is not valid. As your son is a minor (under age of 18), he is not old enough to enter into a legally binding contract without parental consent except for "necessities" . The computer is not a necessity. The store will have to refund the payment he made, regardless of their return policy, when he returns the computer.

Thus in the cases above, the contracts are voidable by the minor but the minor cannot have the cake and eat it. Basically, nullify the contract and put it to a stage as if the contract never took place.

So it is wrong for the minor to keep the money and not return it. A contract which is voided must be done in full and not partially.

[xharrisonx]

the same thing happened to me earlier this year,
not for 85.00 but for 2155.00

im 14, but i paid for it no problem and i keep getting paymnts through paypal :)

[Nonny]

im 14, but i paid for it no problem and i keep getting paymnts through paypal :) You have knowingly fraudulently claimed you are at least 18 years old in your contract with Paypal, and you seem to be proud of that. This attitude really bothers me. I don't particularly want to do business with anyone who has such a cavalier attitude about what s/he signs.

Why not do business with under-18s? In part because of this:
http://www.sylaw.org/docs/Contracting.htm
What if a minor signs a contract and then cancels it before the contract is complete?

If this happens, the minor must return any money or property still in his or her possession that was received through the contract. If the property or money is destroyed or spent, the minor is not required to replace it.

[xharrisonx]

the paypals under my dads name/my company (inc)

i appreciate all the feedback regarding not doing business with minors
:) have a good day

[Sem-Advance]

the paypals under my dads name/my company (inc)

i appreciate all the feedback regarding not doing business with minors
:) have a good day


Not all of us feel this way....A minor built one of the sites that makes me the most revenue.

Also most contracts today are unenforceable from the logistical aspect....so why people are so set on using them for long distance web work makes little sense.

Peace & good luck in business..

[topaffiliateprogram]

When I walked in from school my mum said that paypal debt collectors sent us a letter through the post.

I now owe them £85. What do they expect me too do, i'm only 14 so .. how can i afford that. My mum is gonna pay it but jeez, it's not my fault someone opened a dispute.

you have 5 websites in signatures its hard to believe that you are 14 and have so much sites/posts .


you need to post exact incidence . Did you buy something and did not pay for it . or did you sell something and did not ship the product after getting payment . if anything happens its your responsibility as a good person to pay back ...

but did anyone else hack your paypal account and buy something from it . or did anyone cheated you like bought anything using your account etc etc .. if such things happen write letter to paypal and ask them to improve there service. and donot pay at all . ?

[TVCokeCan]

Trust me, paypal is the bane of all evil for any kid. I signed up and still have a account however it is not without problems, I tend to be honest and never had a problem like the topic poster, however I do find it is sometimes a little TO easy to buy things. Just a question, why does paypal ask you to agree that you are over 18 (check box when signing up) if it still means no legal defence for them?

[topaffiliateprogram]

Trust me, paypal is the bane of all evil for any kid. I signed up and still have a account however it is not without problems, I tend to be honest and never had a problem like the topic poster, however I do find it is sometimes a little TO easy to buy things. Just a question, why does paypal ask you to agree that you are over 18 (check box when signing up) if it still means no legal defence for them?
you need to add credit card . and most banks allow you to have credit card after age of 18 ... now if you are going to use your mom's credit card ofcourse you will find her in trouble .

[TVCokeCan]

I thought that, I really did. But my cash point card (a card anyone over 14 (maybe 16) can get) worked. However this may of been corrected, I signed up 2 years ago but it still works.

[xharrisonx]

yeah paypal just totally scams,
i had to pay off 2155.00 because i accepted payment from someone who ended up being a scam (it was a stolen cc)

but its cool,


thanks
harrison

[Connections]

harrison what is your background in webmaster terms?

14 and acting liek 2g isnt any thing lol.....mysapce guru hahahah

post up proof of this $$$

[aeiouy]

Connections - It has nothing to do with hating Paypal. This is a legal situation and has nothing to do with the "Co-signer" example you gave. If your freind co-signs a loan, I can guarantee the bank verified their age and they signed an agreement that their property would eb at risk.

As far as court costs, there would be none. Paypal already admitted its mistake and even if it didn't, Ryannn would not need legal representation (They couldn't sue a minor anyway)

In this day of computers in schools etc, What if a 6 year old signed up for Paypal...Are you telling me they should be financially responsible?

Well said.

As for others talking about contracts being voided, or upheld if the minor was found to be lying. Try that one in actual court. The reason why a minor can not enter into a contract is because they are not considered capable of making the necessary decisions nor possessing the necessary judgements. The very fact that a minor lied just reinforces this, does not nullify it. i guarantee you the fact that a minor might lie about their age will not make the contract stick.

[crazyryan]

you have 5 websites in signatures its hard to believe that you are 14 and have so much sites/posts .


They aren't my sites, that sig space got rented out .. I have 3-4 sites that aren't earning anything .. Just because I'm 14 doesn't mean I can't create a successful site.

[Sem-Advance]

harrison what is your background in webmaster terms?

14 and acting liek 2g isnt any thing lol.....mysapce guru hahahah

post up proof of this $$$

Fighting with a 14 year old now are we????

Calling him out is a big move :rolleyes:

If you read his post he received a payment of $2,000+ which was paid with a stolen credit card..

The kid stood up like a man and paid the $2g back and you jump on him???

And more than likely that $2g payment was for a website he built and nothing to do with Myspace.

Why should he need to prove anything to any of us??

[dre]

Unlucky, paypal shut me down too (im 16) over $120 (i withdrew $800 the day before, imagine if i didnt!) in my paypal too. They refused to transfer the money to my bank account and limited my account, they even refuse to DELETE my account and remove my debit card. Do you see their game? All the accounts they have shut down and getting interest off the money in that account. I was thinking of paying £90 to start a company, then i could create a paypal account :D, is it possible?

[Sem-Advance]

Unlucky, paypal shut me down too (im 16) over $120 (i withdrew $800 the day before, imagine if i didnt!) in my paypal too. They refused to transfer the money to my bank account and limited my account, they even refuse to DELETE my account and remove my debit card. Do you see their game? All the accounts they have shut down and getting interest off the money in that account. I was thinking of paying £90 to start a company, then i could create a paypal account :D, is it possible?

Actually get a USD Lawyer and start a class action lawsuit as what paypal is doing is illegal.

Those funds are not theirs to keep and certainly they are not allowed to use those funds for earning purposes.

It should be a fairly easy case to win as the US has banking regulations in place to protect consumers. Those fundsa for US accounts should be turned over to the State Treasurers account.

[xharrisonx]

Hey Connections,
I got into this internet/webmaster stuff like 7 months ago +/- since then i have started many small/medium sized ventures and i have been pretty successful. I indeed have been called a myspace guru :cool:. The 2155.00 that i paid off to paypal actually had to deal with some various myspace services that i used to offer way back in the day! Btw i wont show any proof because i have nothing to prove...Unless your the i.r.s.......


Are you???




harrison what is your background in webmaster terms?

14 and acting liek 2g isnt any thing lol.....mysapce guru hahahah

post up proof of this $$$

[Connections]

hows this rep comment I got over this thread -

now i lost all respect for you..no wonder your posts make no sense...You are just looking to make fun of 14 year olds who can't defend themselves

where was I making fun of 14 year olds hahaha,

get your parents to defend you maby if your that worried, why are you even on the internet posting if you cant defend yourself from certian things that will pop up?

[xharrisonx]

Dont hate on connections! he was just curious. recently i have started to get addicted to dp forums and one thing i hate is how people jump to conclusions and always judge!

PZ
Harrison

hows this rep comment I got over this thread -

now i lost all respect for you..no wonder your posts make no sense...You are just looking to make fun of 14 year olds who can't defend themselves

where was I making fun of 14 year olds hahaha,

get your parents to defend you maby if your that worried, why are you even on the internet posting if you cant defend yourself from certian things that will pop up?

[chatmasta]

You know, 14 year olds can think. It's high school age, and I know people close to that age making more money than their parents.

Besides, when did he ever say it's registered in his name? I'm a minor and I have my PayPal registered in my mother's name, and another in my dad's. It's still hooked up to my bank account, etc, but it's just in their name. Perfectly legal, as long as it's with their consent, which it is.

[LiquidStyle]

I woke up the other day and I had like a balance of $50 before hand. Now its -$128. Same thing. A dispute. Its bullshit. Theyll never see a dime out of me. Just throw the letter away man. Dont worry about it. They are a big company and 100 isnt shit to them.

I'v been using paypal since I was 13, successfully up untill now.

[eddy2099]

As for others talking about contracts being voided, or upheld if the minor was found to be lying. Try that one in actual court. The reason why a minor can not enter into a contract is because they are not considered capable of making the necessary decisions nor possessing the necessary judgements. The very fact that a minor lied just reinforces this, does not nullify it. i guarantee you the fact that a minor might lie about their age will not make the contract stick.

I've been monitoring this thread and there are quite a number of under 18 years old who speak out and they appear to be very busy savvy. Some of them may even more successful and knowledgeable than some of us who are way above 18 years old. The kids of today and the kids 100 years ago or even 20 years ago are very different. In this time and age, they are more exposed because of the internet and better education.

I am sure that without a shadow of a doubt that the kids of today who are internet savvy are educated and can read and write which means that they are capable enough to read contracts and to sign up forms. I am sure that because of that, they know that they are abusing the system as it is now by lying about their age to sign up for Paypal accounts and other services online which cannot physically verify a person's age.

Don't you think they should be made to be responsible for their actions ?

Yes, I agree that for someone between the ages of 0 and 12, they may not have the ability to understand responsibility but most children between 12 to 18 years old knows what they are doing.

Just my thoughts.

[xharrisonx]

Hey Eddy,
I see what your saying but i disagree. Being a minor i think of it differently. As long as us minors are not trying to use paypal/other various money making programs etc to scam i dont see why we shouldnt be alloud to use it. Do you think its fair that there are thousands if not tens of thousands of kids who could make tons of money on the internet but can't because of stupid laws/rules put into place by huge companies like paypal? Personally i don't and nor does my dad (he registered a paypal in his name and lets me use it). When you mention us being responsible for "our" actions what are you saying? I do perfectly legit business so what am i responible for? Age is just a number eddy its not what the world revolves around..

Have a nice day
Harrison

I've been monitoring this thread and there are quite a number of under 18 years old who speak out and they appear to be very busy savvy. Some of them may even more successful and knowledgeable than some of us who are way above 18 years old. The kids of today and the kids 100 years ago or even 20 years ago are very different. In this time and age, they are more exposed because of the internet and better education.

I am sure that without a shadow of a doubt that the kids of today who are internet savvy are educated and can read and write which means that they are capable enough to read contracts and to sign up forms. I am sure that because of that, they know that they are abusing the system as it is now by lying about their age to sign up for Paypal accounts and other services online which cannot physically verify a person's age.

Don't you think they should be made to be responsible for their actions ?

Yes, I agree that for someone between the ages of 0 and 12, they may not have the ability to understand responsibility but most children between 12 to 18 years old knows what they are doing.

Just my thoughts.

[eddy2099]

I see you don't understand what I am saying.

When you mention us being responsible for "our" actions what are you saying? I do perfectly legit business so what am i responible for?

Well basically what I am saying is that if you contact business, you can to be true to your words and follow through with it. So basically that is saying that you should be doing legitimate business.

I am saying that you cannot take the 'minor' stand and cheat anyone and get away with it.

Like I said, I applaud innovative and business savvy use and I have nothing against them. It is just that they cannot do something wrong, run away from responsibility and say they are minor and don't own up.

Business is business so no matter how young or how old you are, you need to be honest.

If some place say that they do not deal with minors then you have to comply with that and look for some other solutions.

It is like GoDaddy doesn't want to deal with people from my country, Singapore so I cannot fight them over it, I just deal with someone else which have no problem with that. Business are business and they can can decide who they want to deal with.

Actually it wouldn't be a wrong thing to tell the other party that you are a minor and if the other party will continue dealing with you, that's great.

I am saying that the minors of today are a lot smarter and are more educated than when I was young. In my days, we do not have internet or computers and we just have to make up our own entertainment. We don't do business and if we do, we are helping our family business and so on for pocket change.

So basically, yes, age is not an issue but rules are rules. They are outdated in today's context. The minor age should be lowered.

However, when coming to a contract, you have to agree with all the terms of the contracts, you cannot selective agree with what meets your needs and ignore those parts which does not work with you. It is agree with all or don't use it.

If you use your dad details to sign up with paypal then the contract is between paypal and your dad.

I hope you understand what I am saying here.

[Sem-Advance]

You know, 14 year olds can think. It's high school age, and I know people close to that age making more money than their parents.

Besides, when did he ever say it's registered in his name? I'm a minor and I have my PayPal registered in my mother's name, and another in my dad's. It's still hooked up to my bank account, etc, but it's just in their name. Perfectly legal, as long as it's with their consent, which it is.


Great post...maybe people will start to think before running their mouths (fingers) ......

ok well nah that isn't going to happen.......but we can hope right????

:cool:

[eddy2099]

I am just saying that if the minors can make business decisions and all that, why they cannot be responsible for the contracts they enter, why can't they be bounded by the full agreement too ? Why must the contract terms be selective for minors ?

One moment, you guys applauded the minor for being business savvy and the next moment you say that the minor are not capable of making such decisions and thus contracts cannot apply .

[xharrisonx]

Hey Eddy,
I thought you were trying to say that because we tend to lie about our age's etc that we should be punished. I would give a more in depth response but i am very busy right now and do not have the time.

Thanks
Harrison

[chatmasta]

Oh, don't get me wrong, eddy, I totally agree with you. There's still a huge responsibility factor, and even if it's in a parent's name, then it should be up to the parents to enforce the consequences. Otherwise what would they be teaching their kids?

[outofideas]

anyone know of a paypal type service for minors? or should i just pull a ryannnn and fake it?:D

[emz]

If you owe them the money from an illeget business transaction; take responsibility for your actions and cough up the cash. You know what you were doing when you signed up and if you plead ignorance you just make all the other minors who are conducting legitimate business online lose integrity, unjustfully.

[munt]

i left school at 14 and was a minor when i started business on the net

and was looked down on alot becuase of it... but im still here at 20
if your a minor just step up and be a man (or woman)
take full responsablility for everything you do.. and if you have to.. lie about your age... while still taking full responsablility and acting as proffessional as you can.. most people these days will work with minors tho.. its changed alot

i signed a large contract with a major PPC provider at about 16 and are still with them and they now know i was 16 when i started with them and they actually applauded me for being so proffessional

i havnt had any problems with paypal that wernt merited

i also met alot of other minors who were trying to make it just like me
prove all the people wrong who wont deal with minors.. maybe someday you can reject deals from them ;)

[abe]

in the US you'd owe $0

[Connections]

I now owe them £85. What do they expect me too do, i'm only 14 so .. how can i afford that. My mum is gonna pay it but jeez, it's not my fault someone opened a dispute.


http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6291/paymentzh3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2176/payment2be6.jpg

thats how you can afford it,

so you do have money to make this payment????

I am not trying to start a shitfight with you over this but please do not lie.