Site Ban by Google Please Help

[Atlanta Realtor]

My site was just recently banned by google I am guessing for sitewide themed link partners. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to rectify this problem. I got ranked to number4 for my main search phrase in only 2 months from buying links from one of the members here that I wont mention. This individual was giving advise to myself and a few other realtors in the link partner group that we followed..even after someone else that was in the group warned us about google going to crack down on this type of linking. Because this person is a well known and supposed seo expert we listened to him.

Now my website as well as another realtors that was also purchasing links from this expert is also banned. What can we do to get google to reindex us. I know that the sitewide links have to come down first and foremost but is there anything other then that ..that might convince google to reindex our websites.

A little information about the website. I have sitewide links to other realtors in a relocation partner group. Where we all place sitewide links on our websites to these other realtors for the purpose of not only link value but also referral value. We do exchange referrals quite often to eachother from our sites..this in turn does produce an extra income for us.

There was a big blow out with a couple of members in the group about a month and half ago who left the group and said that google was going to crack down on this type of linking structure. Well none of us listened to them because we had this seo expert tell us google wouldnt penalize for something like that because if they would then what would prevent you from just placing links like that to all your competitors and get them banned.

Since I am no seo expert what must I do to not only combat this penalty but also how do I let google know I have seperated myself from this seo..who sent a email to google telling them that he was a link and PR broker..Quote: This is a quote from the email he sent to google explaining what he felt maybe some of the problems: " Purchased text links on websites, in order to increase their exposure and page rank," will that statement to google not hurt the websites? ..meaning admitting to google you are a PR broker not just link but PR?

The only thing the other client of this seo expert and I have in common other then both of us being banned or penalized is..1. we both buy links from this seo expert..2..we both belong to the sitewide partner link group..3..we both have links to this seo experts website and real estate forum.

I have a feeling my site is toast now and most likely will have to start up a new domain any advise you can offer pertaining to the website would be appreciated. the website is www.atlanta-real-estate-homefinder.com

If I have posted this in the wrong forum please feel free to move it I hope it is in the right forum and believe that what has happen to my site may be a good education for others in the forum. If anyone has specific questions other then what I have supplied please post them and I will try to answer them.

Thank You in Advanced

[leeds1]

Isn't this the same post on seo-c***

I think you have relevant advice there

What does your seo consultant have to say - have you talked with him?

[Atlanta Realtor]

LOL that would be like talking to a competitor talking to him about it. He should have caught it and didnt..because of his advise that myself and another realtor followed and we are both his clients..we both got banned.

He is well respected and I know I am just a realtor but he messed up and wont except the blame for it but is more then willing to keep taking my money for link purchase. As he told me he is the seo expert I am just a Realtor so leave the seo to him. ..BUT if I am questioned on it I have documented proof of what he advised..so its not just my word against his if it ever comes to that on the forums..which I dont want it to. If I am ask in PM who it is I will say but I wont post it on for public view.

My concern is what to do other then fight with google. As I said he told google in an email he was selling PR to my website and the other realtors not just links but page rank and google isnt stupid..they will take that email and look at everything he is doing business wise and rip it apart if they see fit to.

I just want to get my website back in the serps..this has been an expensive lesson and no offense to those that try to practice seo with the intent to help their clients instead of just making a buck..but I have been nailed by enough seo's in my life that I have to clean Ky jelly off of me every night.

I dont want to have to create a new domain but it looks like I might have to unless I can find some advise in the forums to help. As for the post in the other forum I know that some people from here dont visit the other forum so any and all help is appreciated

[NewComputer]

That is a pretty harsh set of circumstances. Why did the SEO send a letter to Google in the first place? How do you know you have been banned? What I do know is this. It sounds like a link farm issue. I would change the domain, definitely change the content structure and hope for the best. You may also want to look at having your website hosted elsewhere (different IP). Google may see the same IP and continue on. What were the keyword phrases that you were optimized for in Google? How much traffic was coming from G compared to Y and M?

Good luck.

[Foxy]

Atlanta I noticed that you had gone on the 24th/25th - have you asked Google why? I would have thought that it was too early to get a reply that your site was banned so how do you know?

If you go to this thread and post: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=14016#post14016 you will see that this page dropped on the same day/time.

I had another page drop out of site on the 14th that started about the same time as your site and had a bundle of links pointing at it. I am still waiting to see whether it will reimmerge but I am not going to wait long before changing things.

So, to recap, you need to know if you are banned, first, then you can take action.

As an aside - why do you post elsewhere as leeds1 says and then come here?
Why didn't you come here first? Why do you call him a member here, as though it is this forums fault, when he has only posted 17 posts here and has his own forum on SEO?

[Foxy]

That is a pretty harsh set of circumstances. Why did the SEO send a letter to Google in the first place? How do you know you have been banned? What I do know is this. It sounds like a link farm issue. I would change the domain, definitely change the content structure and hope for the best. You may also want to look at having your website hosted elsewhere (different IP). Google may see the same IP and continue on. What were the keyword phrases that you were optimized for in Google? How much traffic was coming from G compared to Y and M?

Good luck.
Quite to which I will add

If you find out from Google that you have trangressed their rules then you can get the solution from them - they will tell you as much as they are allowed to - probably go look at the "instructions for webmasters" and then you do as they say and then ask for relisting

[Atlanta Realtor]

Atlanta I noticed that you had gone on the 24th/25th - have you asked Google why? I would have thought that it was too early to get a reply that your site was banned so how do you know?

If you go to this thread and post: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=14016#post14016 you will see that this page dropped on the same day/time.

I had another page drop out of site on the 14th that started about the same time as your site and had a bundle of links pointing at it. I am still waiting to see whether it will reimmerge but I am not going to wait long before changing things.

So, to recap, you need to know if you are banned, first, then you can take action.

As an aside - why do you post elsewhere as leeds1 says and then come here?
Why didn't you come here first? Why do you call him a member here, as though it is this forums fault, when he has only posted 17 posts here and has his own forum on SEO?

Oh no I am not suggesting it is this forums fault..I know that isnt the case. As far as why post here and post on another seo forum. Well not all people that come to this forum go to the other and vise versa. I need all the help I can get. Since I am going at this alone now and that is a scary thought..I can use the advise.

[Mel]

Atlanta if the site you are talking about is the site in signature your site is not banned, your page has a PR 5 and shows 26 backlinks in Google and the master site has thousands of pages in the Google index.

Now it could be that you have attracted a penalty, or it could be that the algo has changed and you have lost rankings because of it, but I suspect that it is an algo change as when I search for your page title in Google it comes up #7 out of 348,000 results.

Of course if its not the site in your signature, then just ignore what I have said.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Atlanta if the site you are talking about is the site in signature your site is not banned, your page has a PR 5 and shows 26 backlinks in Google and the master site has thousands of pages in the Google index.

Now it could be that you have attracted a penalty, or it could be that the algo has changed and you have lost rankings because of it, but I suspect that it is an algo change as when I search for your page title in Google it comes up #7 out of 348,000 results.

Of course if its not the site in your signature, then just ignore what I have said.


NO that is not my sig. I just noticed it is to a individual that I cant stand at relo-experts.com I just changed it to my link in my sig but someone got into my account and the only person that had my pw was my old seo expert that I am speaking of here

[Mel]

Ok Atlanta the site in your current sig is not banned, and I do not think penalized, either. You have a PR7, 1800+ backlinks showing in Google and 140 pages indexed BUT of those 140 pages only 2 are fully indexed and the rest not yet indexed though the links are known to Google.

I can find nothing in your robots.txt to stop the spidering of your pages.

Have you had any server problems recently? An extended server outage could cause what I am seeing.

I suggest that you site tight for a few days and monitor how many of your pages are included and fully indexe with the Google link:URL search.

[Foxy]

Oh no I am not suggesting it is this forums fault..I know that isnt the case. As far as why post here and post on another seo forum. Well not all people that come to this forum go to the other and vise versa. I need all the help I can get. Since I am going at this alone now and that is a scary thought..I can use the advise.

So - everybody is telling you that you are not banned - have you asked google? :)

[Atlanta Realtor]

So - everybody is telling you that you are not banned - have you asked google? :)


I have sent an email to google but havent heard back from them yet. The only reason I say I am penalized is that I fell from a # 4 ranking in my serps for my main key phrase and the other client this seo expert has also was dropped from the serps with a top 10 ranking for their main key phrase and lost their indexed pages other then their forum pages

Not to sound like a broken record but how do you lose over 2000 indexed pages in google from your website and the only pages that are indexed right now are my forum pages something around 400 and something but all those indexed are forum pages. My homepage and all subpages have been removed from googles index. The other realtor has also had this happen.

I have just never seen a website go from # 4 allin anchor...# 4 allin ..text and # 1 allin URL be dropped like that..now I am not ranked for allin ..anchor..text and URL.

I am just a realtor and dont know a lot about seo and search engines but I do thank all of you trying to help.

[digitalpoint]

Well of course, it doesn't solve the underlying problem, but would you say your website is the most relevant page on the Internet for your keywords (from an outside user's point of view, not your own biased one... ;) )?

Ultimately that's what Google is going for, the most relevant results, not (necessarily) the most linked or best optimized.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Well of course, it doesn't solve the underlying problem, but would you say your website is the most relevant page on the Internet for your keywords (from an outside user's point of view, not your own biased one... ;) )?

Ultimately that's what Google is going for, the most relevant results, not (necessarily) the most linked or best optimized.

Yes I believe it is. If you look at the other websites in my market in the top 10.. I dont believe any of them compare to my website. Not all but most of them are either spam filled websites or Rss fed websites. I have over 2600 that was indexed by google... most real estate websites have on avg about 75 pages. So it is content rich and user friendly I believe.

Plus my site is not really optimized other then the homepage..but when you are ranked # 1 for almost all minor key phrases and # 4 for the main key phrase for my market its hard to figure out why google did what they did when they unindexed over 2000 of my pages and only keep the forum pages indexed and dropped me from the serps

As a consumer I would choice my website over the others in the top 10 from what I have seen of them..IMHO

[expat]

I don't see that you are banned or any other stuff.

Site looks like been being agressively developed and you may have fallen out of or never been in G's same domain scheme.
Presently G sees your main domain as two with and without www.

They usually update a db to avoid this but agressive development can force them to "split" the view with all sorts of implications.

E.G. using link:www.... you see most of your links using just domain you may only see few or none.

I had discussions here on this board and others and the common consensus is 301 redirect either or as it is a SE problem not a DNS problem.
As I had the same problem with one of my domains I've implemented 301 for agressive domains and it looks like solving the problem.

M

On the level of relevancy I don't know but I would not deal with your site as I woudn't know who you are Wayne friends Reax or Atlanta homefinders.

[schlottke]

Seems you've complained about this SEO a while ago, too. You seem to complain a lot on here without actually privately discussing it and solving the problem.

[compar]

Seems you've complained about this SEO a while ago, too. You seem to complain a lot on here without actually privately discussing it and solving the problem.
Schlottke is right. This is not how you do business with anyone. As an seller of SEO Services myself I have thought for a long time that you are the epitome of a client from hell. I wouldn't ever want you for a customer.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Seems you've complained about this SEO a while ago, too. You seem to complain a lot on here without actually privately discussing it and solving the problem.

There is no talking to this guy. He is nothing but a Link Broker. It is funny 2 of his real estate clients both lose their serps within a week of eachother. Complaining ..you are right I am complaining..he is a joke and I will let google deal with him.

[Phoenix Realtor]

Just for the record I am happy with the services I have received from this company and while we are dealing with some type of penalty or technical glitch on Google's end it most certainly not the fault of the webmaster.

You may view my site listed on my profile if you care to comment.

Thanks,
Jim

[schlottke]

I believe I know who it is- and he is a stand up gent. Not sure what the problem is, but Im sure he will help you figure it out if you give/gave him time.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Schlottke is right. This is not how you do business with anyone. As an seller of SEO Services myself I have thought for a long time that you are the epitome of a client from hell. I wouldn't ever want you for a customer.

I do not believe I can post my response. So if you are interested in the response I have to you them PM me and I will be happy to send it to you.

[Mel]

Just for the record I am happy with the services I have received from this company and while we are dealing with some type of penalty or technical glitch on Google's end it most certainly not the fault of the webmaster.

You may view my site listed on my profile if you care to comment.

Thanks,
Jim

Interesting to note that whatever the glitch is, it is affecting both your site and AtlantaRealtors site in exactly the same way; the only pages listed in either the Google or Yahoo indexes are your forum pages and most of those are not yet indexed. I would look for commonalitiy between the sites but the problem is not limited to Google.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Interesting to note that whatever the glitch is, it is affecting both your site and AtlantaRealtors site in exactly the same way; the only pages listed in either the Google or Yahoo indexes are your forum pages and most of those are not yet indexed. I would look for commonalitiy between the sites but the problem is not limited to Google.

Well there are commonalities within our websites.

1. We both buy links from this seo expert.

2. We both belong to the same realtor link group.

3. We both had links to this seo experts real estate forum and his seo website. both recepical.

4. I believe that our robots.txt was the same.

5. We both have a Vb forum for our consumers

6. A few of the links we purchased from this seo expert are the same and on the same IP blocks.

7. He had a hand in designing both of our sites and has made changes to our code.

These are the only things I can think of at this moment but if there are others I will post them.

Thank you Mel for looking at this as much as you have. I believe that if this is figured out it would be of great use to those within the forum.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Just so we all have a good idea what type of seo this person is

http://listingsbylocation.com/ this is pointing to my website and if he changes it I do have a snapshot of the page with the domain

[leeds1]

Just so we all have a good idea what type of seo this person is

http://listingsbylocation.com/ this is pointing to my website and if he changes it I do have a snapshot of the page with the domain

This isn't pointing to your website - it IS your website:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>listingsbylocation.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type
content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"></HEAD><FRAMESET><FRAME
name=listingsbylocation.com
src="http://www.atlanta-real-estate-homefinder.com"></FRAMESET></HTML>

[Atlanta Realtor]

This isn't pointing to your website - it IS your website:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>listingsbylocation.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type
content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"></HEAD><FRAMESET><FRAME
name=listingsbylocation.com
src="http://www.atlanta-real-estate-homefinder.com"></FRAMESET></HTML>

So does that mean he highjacked my website? LOL I am a realtor so explain to me like you would a kid ..hahahaha. If so what can I do about it.

[digitalpoint]

It means http://www.atlanta-real-estate-homefinder.com is the same as http://listingsbylocation.com because the 2nd address has the first one in a frame.

[DarrenC]

Which could mean duplicate content penalty?

Or an seo who is trying to get your website more visitors, which has backfired.

I think I am right in saying that when you get an SEO to work for you, they take a risk, and so do you. If you don't want to take that risk, then you do it yourself, just like many people in here.

You saw $$ in your eyes and went for it - I don't blame you.. but learn from your mistakes, and try and solve the problem. It's not like theres plenty of people in this forum to help you.

Darren :)

[digitalpoint]

It wouldn't be a duplicate content penalty, because the content is actually different (one is simply a frame of the other), so the actual content is coming from the real domain. If you could get a penalty by doing that, it would be simple to give anyone a duplicate content penalty without even duplicating their content. A frame is more like a link rather than duplicate content.

Truthfully, using a frame doesn't really give me a "good idea what type of seo this person is". Lots of sites use frames for various reasons, including mine.

To follow up with that wwhhomes mentioned, he has a point... Anyone that buys links (through a SEO firm or independently) is taking a risk. Google has publicly stated that they try to filter out sites that artificially manipulate their rankings (including buying links). Maybe you didn't understand that before, but it's a bit like speeding on the freeway... You may or may not get caught, but it's really nothing to be bitter about if you do get caught.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Just an update for those of you that didnt know and if I am repeating myself I appolgize. It seem this Seo Expert which by the way is the famous Seo Guy has highjacked my website. http://listingsbylocation.com/ Now for some information that may help you if any of you have a website that has been highjacked try these guys www.domainmagistrate.com Its seems they take offense to this type of activity. Plus little does he realized that his forwarder has their legal depatment on this matter. www.Networksolutions.com since he did not have my permission to forward that domain.


So for those of us that seem to be targets from unscrupulous Seo Experts we do have people that will fight for us.

[DarrenC]

SEO Guy is one of the most helpful SEO experts that I have come across on any SEO forums and I think you should really be having these discussions with SEO Guy direct rather than having this discussion in a forum.

It's difficult for anyone to comment simply because theres always two side to every story, and theres nothing anyone can do here about from give you advice, which people have already.

Darren :)

[digitalpoint]

Just an update for those of you that didnt know and if I am repeating myself I appolgize. It seem this Seo Expert which by the way is the famous Seo Guy has highjacked my website. http://listingsbylocation.com/

How was it hijacked exactly? How long have your owned listingsbylocation.com before it was hijacked?

[Atlanta Realtor]

How was it hijacked exactly? How long have your owned listingsbylocation.com before it was hijacked?

Listingsbylocation.com ISNT my domain. That domain belongs to Seo Guy. He has taken that domain and forwarded my website to it. My domain is www.atlanta-real-estate-homefinder.com not www.listingsbylocation.com

I just thought most of you that thinks Seo Guy is such a great person would be interested in seeing how he truly is. If you look at the fact that I drop from the serps..this could be a reason who knows how long he has had this going on..and yes it would be considered duplicate content.

[digitalpoint]

Well first of all, a frame isn't taking your content. The content exists on your server. And it's most definitely not a hijacked website.

It's not a hijacked website anymore than this is me hijacking CNN:

http://www.digitalpoint.com/cnn/

Trust me, I didn't just copy the entire CNN website.

My best suggestion to you would be to read up on HTML and specifically how frames work before you start throwing accusations around about someone hijacking your website. :)

[Phoenix Realtor]

Actually he has not forwarded your site to it. The URL listingsbylocation.com is pulling your homepage as a frame source.

How is this highjacking?

[Atlanta Realtor]

Well first of all, a frame isn't taking your content. The content exists on your server. And it's most definitely not a hijacked website.

It's not a hijacked website anymore than this is me hijacking CNN:

http://www.digitalpoint.com/cnn/

Trust me, I didn't just copy the entire CNN website.

My best suggestion to you would be to read up on HTML and specifically how frames work before you start throwing accusations around about someone hijacking your website. :)

Well I do not know coding such as html and it is funny that the legal department at www.networksolutions.com has a problem with it..but as I said I am just a realtor..he is respected here and on other forums but if he wishes to reply I can back up anything that has been said with documentation but can he.

[digitalpoint]

Well I do not know coding such as html and it is funny that the legal department at www.networksolutions.com has a problem with it..but as I said I am just a realtor..he is respected here and on other forums but if he wishes to reply I can back up anything that has been said with documentation but can he.
Well, I'm guessing the legal department at Network Solutions doesn't have an understanding yet of what it actually is either.

Let us know what becomes of it...

[leeds1]

Yes it's odd.

1) seo-guy is respected, trusted and provides excellent free advice
2) The frameset is exactly how DP describes and is probably providing you with free traffic
3) It's the same as DP's CNN example (I could do the same with DPs ranking tool and I'm sure he wouldnt complain :) )
4) G et all change their algos all of the time - the market you're in is a hot market that G ensures provides valid results and you may have just come up against an algo tweak.

Previous advice - I would

a) stay cool(er)
b) get in touch with seo-guy in a more pragmatic and sensible way

We are all humans after all and G is a robot/ algo

You should spend time with seo-guy to see what may have caused this

If you read other forums others have dropped off the planet so there was some form of algo change last week/ over the weekend.

It's not going to be easy once threads like this have been posted though but seo-guy should be able to help you out of this mess (and don't forget G is free traffic and they have no obligation to any of us to provide us traffic as a right)

[Atlanta Realtor]

Yes it's odd.

1) seo-guy is respected, trusted and provides excellent free advice
2) The frameset is exactly how DP describes and is probably providing you with free traffic
3) It's the same as DP's CNN example (I could do the same with DPs ranking tool and I'm sure he wouldnt complain :) )
4) G et all change their algos all of the time - the market you're in is a hot market that G ensures provides valid results and you may have just come up against an algo tweak.

Previous advice - I would

a) stay cool(er)
b) get in touch with seo-guy in a more pragmatic and sensible way

We are all humans after all and G is a robot/ algo

You should spend time with seo-guy to see what may have caused this

If you read other forums others have dropped off the planet so there was some form of algo change last week/ over the weekend.

It's not going to be easy once threads like this have been posted though but seo-guy should be able to help you out of this mess (and don't forget G is free traffic and they have no obligation to any of us to provide us traffic as a right)

It is not just the fact that I fell off the serps. It is the fact that this person has lied and spouted out enough BS that after you learn it isnt true how can you trust him. I do not have the reputation on any type of seo forum that he does..not many do..but as I stated before in a reply..dont judge a book by its cover.

Just like some of you may come to his defense there are people in my profession that would come to mine..its only human nature. I can not claim to know as much as any of you about Seo but I do know business and I have seen a lot of great ethical and moral business people and I have seen the scum of the earth business people. So I feel after the facts are in pertaining to this seo I have made a sound judgement as to his ability..True Character and his business practices..which has lead me to my comments here.

As an example..if you hired me as your realtor and I told you I sold Bill Gates his home and this home over here that you were interested in buying had appreciated 90% in the last 2 months and you found out it wasnt true...Would you TRUST me? Plus you had people even after you found that out telling you oh he is an upstanding guy and is one of the best in the business...what part of your common sense are you going to listen to.

As Stated Dont Judge A Book By Its Cover

[digitalpoint]

No one is trying to defend anyone, I'm simply trying to educate you as to what a frame is and what a domain hijacking isn't.

[Atlanta Realtor]

No one is trying to defend anyone, I'm simply trying to educate you as to what a frame is and what a domain hijacking isn't.

I wasnt suggesting that you was. I also do appreciate you trying to educate me pertaining to these issues. As I said I know nothing about coding so any advise is appreciated.

BTW I am off to an appointment so if there is a reply that needs to be made it will be made tonight when I get back and once again thank you all for the advise and comments

[schlottke]

That is not a high-jacking, its a frame.

Ever think maybe google is catching the White Background and white text as a problem on accident? I'd try changing the hue.

[NewComputer]

Hey DP,

How do I use frames to do what you did with the CNN site? I am legally trying to do that with the Kingston Memory tool. I already have their permission, but I am not sure how to code it. Any help? Direct me to a good site if you know one. I have been looking for awhile....

[digitalpoint]

Make an HTML file with the following:

<frameset><frame src="http://www.cnn.com/"></frameset>

Replacing the URL with whatever you want of course.

[digitalpoint]

Okay, I really didn't want to get involved in this whole thread, but I came across this thread:

http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/showthread.php?t=248 2 1/2 weeks ago, you were throwing out praise to SEO Guy and you couldn't believe how fast he got your rankings up to the top.

I'm assuming you fired him after that (for whatever reason, I don't really care about) for something.

So at some point (in the not so distant past) you seemed to be pretty happy with his services.

[expat]

I woudn't worry too much. He is one of these who winge a lot and are never at fault.

In an adaption to a UK saying about antique dealers:

If you put three realtors on a remote island and give them a square yard of development there would be roaring trade but he would probably be the one that fells the single remaining palm tree to make an advertising board.

M

[Atlanta Realtor]

Okay, I really didn't want to get involved in this whole thread, but I came across this thread:

http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/showthread.php?t=248 2 1/2 weeks ago, you were throwing out praise to SEO Guy and you couldn't believe how fast he got your rankings up to the top.

I'm assuming you fired him after that (for whatever reason, I don't really care about) for something.

So at some point (in the not so distant past) you seemed to be pretty happy with his services.

Yes I did say that..BUT it was suggested by Seo Guy to help him promote to the other realtors on the board. I wrote it and told seo guy if it wasnt to his liking then rewrite it..he had my PW for the forum.

Also why wouldnt I be happy..I had top 10 in the serps..I had no reason to go looking into my website. As far as all the BS seo guy was sling out well I allowed him to do that and maybe even prodded him a little.

Here is a link to the other forum that I believe will shed a little light. The thread is long but read that last page. I believe this will tell you who is being truthful here. I know that noone here is defending anyone but I feel that the picture needs to be made clear. Pay attention to the fact that Seo Guy makes statements about what he was and wasnt.Then look at the emails I posted. Those are his emails. http://forums.seochat.com/showthread.php?t=12491&page=4

As I have stated Dont Judge A Book By Its Cover

[expat]

Yada yada winge winge...

You can't be serious about some of the stuff you're writing here.
Don't you notice that more and more people subscribe to the threat for the sheer entertainment value?
I'm pretty sure all development in the realtor sector has stopped because the people are just falling about laughing, incapable to do any work, but this maybe what you're aiming at. Pretty shrewed way to get to the top.
M

[Atlanta Realtor]

Yada yada winge winge...

You can't be serious about some of the stuff you're writing here.
Don't you notice that more and more people subscribe to the threat for the sheer entertainment value?
I'm pretty sure all development in the realtor sector has stopped because the people are just falling about laughing, incapable to do any work, but this maybe what you're aiming at. Pretty shrewed way to get to the top.
M

You are entitled to your opinion but I can tell you there are a lot that dont feel the way you do.I believe people here are smart enough to read between the lines and make their own judgement. You on the other hand may be just someone who revels in practices that I mention is a problem with people trusting your profession. I personally dont have to have an seo to make a living but it is just another marketing tool that can produce more income.

This is NOT about entertaning anyone. As for the realtor community. I can tell you there are more realtors that feel the way I do then not. Most realtors dont even know what PR is..does this make them entertaining..I would hope not. We all can not be authorities on every subject matter. There are a lot of realtors that hire the so called seo experts that take their money, promise them the world and then produce nothing. The sad part about your comments are you dont take this serious..but I would imagine sitting in front of a computer all day you dont have a worry in the world. As long as clients keep sending their money and waiting with baited breath you will always be in business no matter who you have to take advantage of to make that little bit of pocket change.

My situtation I dont rely on the web to support my family. I make a very good living without the web..but those of us on the internet that depend on the so call seo experts to practice business ethically and provide services that have been paid for depend on your profession to operate in an ethical manner.

It seems to me with all the post made on this thread you seem to be the only one who seems to think this is funny. My statements I make about certain technical issues may be funny because of my lack of knowledge but where do YOU have the right to judge me. If this post was on issues relating to real estate I am sure you would be out of your element and those of us in the real estate industry would consider you entertaining.

[JustTheFacts]

I would agree that Atlanta Realtor is a whiner, complainer, and probably the client from hell. But in this case he has a legitimate question, he is totally lost, frustrated, groping for any answer, and he is only asking for help from you in the SEO community.

One thing he says that he has in common with the other site that has dropped in SERP's is the purchasing of links. In both cases they each had hundreds of these and many came from the same websites and provided by the same person. Could this be a factor?

In two other forums this question (or possible problem) has been raised to his SEO whatever. Within minutes of this question being posted both threads were closed.

My question is this: Could the purchasing of backlinks for the purpose of raising his PR be the cause of his drop in the SERP's. If so, will this become a problem for others who are doing the same?

[NewComputer]

Wow, that is right out of hand. The SERP's are touch and go. Everyone knows this. You may be flying along and then dropped. I think that you should learn from your mistake and all parties should cease and desist. This thing has the feeling of ending up in court. You should never rely on the SE as your number one source of clients (related to real estate). The engines could change tomorrow leaving all in the dark. Regardless, what you have here is a very interesting battle that should be done in private. I think the mods here should shut this thread down and force these parties to discuss these matters in private. These platforms only lead to ugliness and people lose business over these types of arguements.

Atlanta Realtor, you have been burned, not by an SEO, but by what looks like Google's TOS. Now, this is their website, so they may do with it as they feel. I think your best bet would be to contact them and try to find out what you did wrong. Don't slander SEO-guy to them or say "it wasn't me, it was him". The great thing about these forums is that if there is a way to help you, someone here, or at another place will try to help. No one wants to see anyone get banned, and unless there was some cloaking going on with your site or some other form of linking to your site from banned linkfarms etc.... then you should not have been banned IMO. Either way though, I will wish you the best and hope that you get this resolved asap. I think that Google and Real Estate have a hard time getting along. A lot of leads are done through the search engines, so these battles seem to cause extreme bitterness.

If I could make one recommendation. Change your url, content etc... and move on. I know it is a lot of work, but I think that may be your best bet. I know a site that was banned from Yahoo (real estate related) and they have made zero headway in trying to get back in.

I hope this helps, people need to quit beating up on people.

[Atlanta Realtor]

I would agree that Atlanta Realtor is a whiner, complainer, and probably the client from hell. But in this case he has a legitimate question, he is totally lost, frustrated, groping for any answer, and he is only asking for help from you in the SEO community.

One thing he says that he has in common with the other site that has dropped in SERP's is the purchasing of links. In both cases they each had hundreds of these and many came from the same websites and provided by the same person. Could this be a factor?

In two other forums this question (or possible problem) has been raised to his SEO whatever. Within minutes of this question being posted both threads were closed.

My question is this: Could the purchasing of backlinks for the purpose of raising his PR be the cause of his drop in the SERP's. If so, will this become a problem for others who are doing the same?

I can be the client from hell and I wont argue that statement. The reason I can be is because I am in the customer service business so therefore I set a higher level of standards for people I do business with. As far as whining..no chance. People that you would refer to as being whiners usually are very unhappy with their lives. I can tell you I have a very good life personally and business. Not just for the fact that myself and my family are set for life financially but also because I have people around that love and care about me and I am respected in my community.

Now to the question you ask about the links. Yes I feel that could be a problem. As you stated the reason I would complain is the fact I am no seo expert but even having what little knowledge I do that has come from forums like this. I know that you dont purchase links from the same IP block and then place 2 clients that are also linked to eachother by theme on those as my seo expert did. This is why I speculate that instead of really looking out for his clients best interest..Its all about the BUCK to him.

We all know that this seo is respected and some believe Very Knowledgable. So why this rookie mistake? That cost me my very good rankings.

I do want to repair my website and I do understand that google smokes crack sometimes but I feel the fall of my website is based on the mistakes my so called seo expert made.

I have had others that I know personally look at my site ..one of which is a programmer and said my code looks like s..t..that it is very unprofessional. I do know that none of my code meets WC3 or whatever it is..LOL. I have even had editors point this out to me from Dmoz. Which they did say was a small issue with my website being listed.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Wow, that is right out of hand. The SERP's are touch and go. Everyone knows this. You may be flying along and then dropped. I think that you should learn from your mistake and all parties should cease and desist. This thing has the feeling of ending up in court. You should never rely on the SE as your number one source of clients (related to real estate). The engines could change tomorrow leaving all in the dark. Regardless, what you have here is a very interesting battle that should be done in private. I think the mods here should shut this thread down and force these parties to discuss these matters in private. These platforms only lead to ugliness and people lose business over these types of arguements.

Atlanta Realtor, you have been burned, not by an SEO, but by what looks like Google's TOS. Now, this is their website, so they may do with it as they feel. I think your best bet would be to contact them and try to find out what you did wrong. Don't slander SEO-guy to them or say "it wasn't me, it was him". The great thing about these forums is that if there is a way to help you, someone here, or at another place will try to help. No one wants to see anyone get banned, and unless there was some cloaking going on with your site or some other form of linking to your site from banned linkfarms etc.... then you should not have been banned IMO. Either way though, I will wish you the best and hope that you get this resolved asap. I think that Google and Real Estate have a hard time getting along. A lot of leads are done through the search engines, so these battles seem to cause extreme bitterness.

If I could make one recommendation. Change your url, content etc... and move on. I know it is a lot of work, but I think that may be your best bet. I know a site that was banned from Yahoo (real estate related) and they have made zero headway in trying to get back in.

I hope this helps, people need to quit beating up on people.

I do agree with some of your statements. I would have one question though. If we as consumers hire Seo's who are suppose to be knowledge about the do's and dont's of the SEs.. When we as consumers get banned after paying for these services..who do you blame..The Client?

If we as clients had the knowledge the so called Seo Experts say they have..why would we need them? As stated in my last post I believe the reason looking back at my site and information I have gotten from other members here and other forums..This was a rookie mistake with the linking structure that my Seo swore up and down there wasnt a problem with it. So who do we hold accountable.

[NewComputer]

I do agree with some of your statements. I would have one question though. If we as consumers hire Seo's who are suppose to be knowledge about the do's and dont's of the SEs.. When we as consumers get banned after paying for these services..who do you blame..The Client?

If we as clients had the knowledge the so called Seo Experts say they have..why would we need them? As stated in my last post I believe the reason looking back at my site and information I have gotten from other members here and other forums..This was a rookie mistake with the linking structure that my Seo swore up and down there wasnt a problem with it. So who do we hold accountable.

Well, because there is no school for becoming an SEO (that I am aware of) and no real control over who can and cannot claim to be an SEO, then yes, I do blame the client. I am my own SEO, only because I researched who SEO's were and what kind of legislation, schooling and brethern was out there. Low and behold, there was not a lot of any of the above. You take a chance in the SEO game. There is no way that anyone can guarantee #1 position without shelling out dough to the SE itself. That is the only thing that I am sure of right now. Other than that, everything is 'chance'. There are SEO's that work hard and do the right things, but there cannot be guarantee's.

Until there is some control over SEO's, everyone and their dog can be one. You just have to be careful.

[Atlanta Realtor]

Well, because there is no school for becoming an SEO (that I am aware of) and no real control over who can and cannot claim to be an SEO, then yes, I do blame the client. I am my own SEO, only because I researched who SEO's were and what kind of legislation, schooling and brethern was out there. Low and behold, there was not a lot of any of the above. You take a chance in the SEO game. There is no way that anyone can guarantee #1 position without shelling out dough to the SE itself. That is the only thing that I am sure of right now. Other than that, everything is 'chance'. There are SEO's that work hard and do the right things, but there cannot be guarantee's.

Until there is some control over SEO's, everyone and their dog can be one. You just have to be careful.

I agree with everything you said other then ..Blaming the Client. If this was the case the court system wouldnt be full of breach of contract or breach of fiduciary responsibility lawsuits and judgements handed down. I know as a Realtor if I was to mislead a client or not perform my fiduciary obligations I would be sued in a heartbeat. As it should be. I have a duty to my clients. The reason they hire me is because they do not understand all the legal aspects of buying or selling a home and want to be covered legally if something goes worng. The same should apply to hiring an seo. We as consumers hire them to perform a job and when that job isnt performed they should be held liable.

This is the problem with this profession there is no regulated governing entity. Most of these professionals that work out of their homes and have some little LLC set up that has no assets whether business or personal are not worried about being sued. Right now though this is all that is available to most consumers.

I do believe however that in time this industry will be regulated and then the trash will be thrown out.

[mcdar]

I would just like to comment on the statement regarding the linking strategy being a "rookie mistake".

I do not beleive this to be the case.

Until last Friday, that strategy was working for many websites. Multiple links from the same website yielded as positive effect as any.

However, the experimental page that we have been watching since April 7th also took a big hit Friday and dropped from #41 to #143. I have since read reports of other pages/sites taking a big hit since last Friday.

I am starting to believe that Google had a problem or more than likely "tweeked" again.

I was commenting earlier in the week that Google as taken a direction that had all but eliminated the "little guy" as only those who had the resources to acquire thousands of links, could compete in the serps currently.

In the last few months, those who were succeeding either had large networks of websites of which they could set up incredible numbers of links within a very short time OR they had enough cash to lay out to purchase the same.

The link selling game was coming into full bloom.

If Google has taken steps to devalue links coming from a single source, it is probably a wise step toward curtailing this activity.

It is much easier to manipulate linking by setting up ten websites with hundreds (if not thousands) of pages each and coming up with thousands of links to a "new" page than it is to acquire the same amount of links from individual websites.

Who would care to speculate the number of "Link Garden websites" that have sprouted up since the first of the year? A "Link Garden website" is what I call a website that was created with a primary purpose of generating pages that could be used to "plant" links on.

Maybe Google is just trying to foil this new linking "strategy".

IMHO,
Caryl

[mcdar]

Atlanta Realtor,

I believe there are many honest people working out there in the land of SEO. But, SEO alone is nothing you could build a fortune 500 company on.

There is absolutely no way to "master" the search engines. Creating a solid, stable website takes a great deal of time. Time is something that most consumers do not want to spend. There in lies the dilema.

Quick surges to the top rankings are constantly met with resistance from the search engines themselves. I believe Google is working diligently to foil those who would manipulate their algorithm and websites/pages popping up all over with thousands of links, right out of the gate, are probably easy targets for G to go after.

I do NOT like the idea of Google doing what I have just speculated above, but I am starting to believe that it is "back to the drawing board again" as far as linking strategies go.

IMHO,
Caryl

[DarrenC]

I've never been a fan of paying for links because this thing can back fire on you, and this is what has happened with the website in this thread. If you had gone and bought links of a website yourself, without any SEO intervention who would you have blamed. I bet any money it would of been the website selling links.

Sometimes in business you have to make your own decisions and if it's a mistake, then that's simply life. Blaming a SEO about it's services is like blaming a pigeon for crapping on your car. (unless they have used spammy techniques - which the SEO hasn't)

Google as taken a direction that had all but eliminated the "little guy" as only those who had the resources to acquire thousands of links, could compete in the serps currently.

I completely disagree. I'm a little guy, I don't pay for links, I can't afford to pay for links, but I'm making a living out of my business AND it's doing great in the search engines, WHY? I've taken ADVICE from people with SEO knowledge from forums like this.

I think you know more than you say you do about SEO, and you know the risks you take, you should stand by your decision and move on.

Someone please close this thread :D

Darren :)

[digitalpoint]

Bottom line is anything you to to artificially raise your ranks (especially purchasing links based on PageRank), is not "cool" with Google. Ultimately, Google is trying to return relevant results that are not artificially manipulated.

I don't personally buy (or sell) links, as I don't think it's a good practice for long-term viability. But many people do. Just keep in mind you are walking a thin line when you are trying to "trick" Google into ranking your site higher. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. So in your particular situation, Google wins, they did what they are trying to do (keep artificially raised rankings down).

One can of course claim ignorance about it, but I think it would come down to who contacted whom. If you contacted someone to purchase links, it would be on your shoulders to educate yourself beforehand. If someone contacted you out of the blue to buy links, I think it would have been appropriate for them to educate you about the practice.

The best thing you can do at this point would be to remove all the artificial links you bought, and I bet you will find in about 2-3 months, your site will be in the index again (of course, not ranking as high as with the links, but at least it will be there).

[Atlanta Realtor]

I've never been a fan of paying for links because this thing can back fire on you, and this is what has happened with the website in this thread. If you had gone and bought links of a website yourself, without any SEO intervention who would you have blamed. I bet any money it would of been the website selling links.

Sometimes in business you have to make your own decisions and if it's a mistake, then that's simply life. Blaming a SEO about it's services is like blaming a pigeon for crapping on your car. (unless they have used spammy techniques - which the SEO hasn't)



I completely disagree. I'm a little guy, I don't pay for links, I can't afford to pay for links, but I'm making a living out of my business AND it's doing great in the search engines, WHY? I've taken ADVICE from people with SEO knowledge from forums like this.

I think you know more than you say you do about SEO, and you know the risks you take, you should stand by your decision and move on.

Someone please close this thread :D

Darren :)

I think my point is being missed. Its not the fact that I purchased links. Its the fact that this seo placed links on my website from almost all the same IP blocks and then turned around and placed a lot of those same links to another realtor client of his who links his site to mine.

I am just a realtor but if some of the statements here are true..then having 1. links coming from the same IP block is bad.
2.Linking two themed sites together with purchased links from the same IP block is Bad.

I understand that google can change its also at anytime which means no matter what any of us do we are always at risk. ....BUT I feel that pertaining to the way the linking structure paid and recipical linking between me and the other real estate client of this seo was a rookie mistake.

Oh BTW if I had purchased the links on my own..that is my fault and I have noone to blame but myself..but setting the link structure as this seo expert did since I am no seo is His Fault

[Atlanta Realtor]

Bottom line is anything you to to artificially raise your ranks (especially purchasing links based on PageRank), is not "cool" with Google. Ultimately, Google is trying to return relevant results that are not artificially manipulated.

I don't personally buy (or sell) links, as I don't think it's a good practice for long-term viability. But many people do. Just keep in mind you are walking a thin line when you are trying to "trick" Google into ranking your site higher. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. So in your particular situation, Google wins, they did what they are trying to do (keep artificially raised rankings down).

One can of course claim ignorance about it, but I think it would come down to who contacted whom. If you contacted someone to purchase links, it would be on your shoulders to educate yourself beforehand. If someone contacted you out of the blue to buy links, I think it would have been appropriate for them to educate you about the practice.

The best thing you can do at this point would be to remove all the artificial links you bought, and I bet you will find in about 2-3 months, your site will be in the index again (of course, not ranking as high as with the links, but at least it will be there).

Well I can claim ingnorance..lol..when I first contacted this seo it was to seo the website..he reccomended we buy links that it would help produce higher ranking in a shorter amount of time. He said this is what he did with his website and it was ranked very well. This was part of the criteria for me choosing him because of his rankings in the SEs.

So since I am no expert I followed his advise. Until 3 months ago I didnt even know you could buy links or what allin anchor was or anything else.

[digitalpoint]

Well personally, I don't think your site being stung would have anything to do with the IP blocks. More than likely you simply got too many "high value" links too quickly.

I'll assume that if you bought links in large bulk, they were spread around multiple sites (as there is limited value to them all coming from a single domain).

Google looks at so many different things, that even if it does look at the IP block (which I'm not convinced of myself), that's only 1 of 10,000 things.

Google applies penalties to sites that sells links based on PageRank (phpbb.com for example), but typically just the higher PageRank sites. A more logical explaination would be one of the sites you ended up getting links from was on Google "watch list". A combination of your site showing up there along with a flood of high quality links instantly showing up probably threw up some flags on Google's end that your site probably was buying links.

Google is tricky... if you are going to buy links, you have to take the good with the bad.

[DarrenC]

.. and just to add what Shawn said, if this is your livelyhood, its your responsibility to ensure that you protect it by looking into any service that someone else might provide that would have an impact on your business... no matter how good of service they provide.

I'd look at some of your link partners, see if any of the other websites that are linked on it are in the same position as you, and like shawn said, get rid of some of the sponsored links, and you never know.

Darren :)

[Atlanta Realtor]

.. and just to add what Shawn said, if this is your livelyhood, its your responsibility to ensure that you protect it by looking into any service that someone else might provide that would have an impact on your business... no matter how good of service they provide.

I'd look at some of your link partners, see if any of the other websites that are linked on it are in the same position as you, and like shawn said, get rid of some of the sponsored links, and you never know.

Darren :)

I know that none of the other link partners are in that position. It was only Seo Guys 2 real estate clients. There are common factors between realtor 1 and realtor 2 websites. I will just have to wait till google responds. I gave them a detailed history of the website.

[Mel]

In my experience Wayne, you may have a very long wait for any answer from Google, and even then it may be only a one liner like:

Your site has/has not been penalized.

There seems to be nothing wrong with your site, there is a history of bulk link buying, but only the two sites are affected.

I am not entirely convinced that it is a penalty for link buying since:


Two sites were affected in identical ways

Your pages were removed from both Google and Yahoo at the same time, leaving only some forum pages

Your PR and backlinks remain unchanged

Last Sunday you had only 7 pages indexed in Yahoo, all of them forum pages, today you have 101 pages indexed in Yahoo, with a mixture of both forum and regular pages.

Today you rank #18 in Yahoo for atlanta real estate, even though only some of your pages are indexed


This looks to me like there was some kind of glitch that caused pages to be removed from Google and Yahoo, but they are now finding thier way back in Yahoo. If the pages were dropped from both Google and Yahoo at the same time it seems logical that it was for the same reason and that reason seems to have been corrected.

The only caveat is that it seems like there has been an email to Google telling them about the link buying, and that might create problems in and of itself.

[Atlanta Realtor]

In my experience Wayne, you may have a very long wait for any answer from Google, and even then it may be only a one liner like:

Your site has/has not been penalized.

There seems to be nothing wrong with your site, there is a history of bulk link buying, but only the two sites are affected.

I am not entirely convinced that it is a penalty for link buying since:


Two sites were affected in identical ways

Your pages were removed from both Google and Yahoo at the same time, leaving only some forum pages

Your PR and backlinks remain unchanged

Last Sunday you had only 7 pages indexed in Yahoo, all of them forum pages, today you have 101 pages indexed in Yahoo, with a mixture of both forum and regular pages.

Today you rank #18 in Yahoo for atlanta real estate, even though only some of your pages are indexed


This looks to me like there was some kind of glitch that caused pages to be removed from Google and Yahoo, but they are now finding thier way back in Yahoo. If the pages were dropped from both Google and Yahoo at the same time it seems logical that it was for the same reason and that reason seems to have been corrected.

The only caveat is that it seems like there has been an email to Google telling them about the link buying, and that might create problems in and of itself.

I can say I feel it is based on part from a statement google made.

Lets start it this way. As stated there are common factors between myself and the other Seo Guys real estate client. Since we both were clients and we both got penalized..the problems is associated with one of those factors.

Common Factor Layouts.

A= Realtor #1 in real estate linking group

B=Realtor # 2 in real estate linking group

C= Realtor #3 in real estate linking group

D= Seo Guy Client in real estate linking group

E= Seo Guy Client in real estate linking group

Ok now A,B,C,D,E all have themed sitewide links to eachother with no other common factors other then the websites being themed and belonging to real estate agents.

D and E both use seo guy to purchase links from and handle the seo. We both have links back to seo guys website and real estate forum.

Now the common factors that both D and E have in common are.

1. We purchase links from seo guy. examples of those links that both D and E have together that were purchased from seo guy.

www.arizonatools.com/catalog/browse/2288-4089/ this website has sitewide links to both D and E

www.online-education.info/sitemap.php
This website has both sitewide to both D and E

www.web-design.seo-guy.com both D and E are or was on this page

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/

This group of newspapers did have both D and E on them which these groups of newspapers are owned by the same company and crosslink together.

http://www.realestatewebmasters.com Both D and E was on homepage and several others but also recieved backlinks from post made.

So I believe that google does penalize or ban for something that is trying to manipulate there serps. Here is an excerpt from google.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312504105564/ds1a.htm#toc16167_4



There is an ongoing and increasing effort by “index spammers” to develop ways to manipulate our web search results. For example, because our web search technology ranks a web page’s relevance based in part on the importance of the web sites that link to it, people have attempted to link a group of web sites together to manipulate web search results. We take this problem very seriously because providing relevant information to users is critical to our success. If our efforts to combat these and other types of index spamming are unsuccessful, our reputation for delivering relevant information could be diminished. This could result in a decline in user traffic, which would damage our business.

Text-Matching Techniques. Our technology employs text-matching techniques that compare search queries with the content of web pages to help determine relevance. Our text-based scoring techniques do far more than count the number of times a search term appears on a web page. For example, our technology determines the proximity of individual search terms to each other on a given web page, and prioritizes results that have the search terms near each other. Many other aspects of a page’s content are factored into the equation, as is the content of pages that link to the page in question. By combining query independent measures such as PageRank with our text-matching techniques, we are able to deliver search results that are relevant to what people are trying to find.


Text advertising is NOT against googles Tos but when it is done to try and manipulate the serps it is..All it takes is for someone to file a report and show just cause why it is meant to manipulate and google will take action as I believe they have in relation to websites D and E.

[ewayne]

And I have never met one that says he/she does.

I tell people that I am an SEO expert. I don't know everything. I know a lot. Last month I got caught by Google on the one of my bragging rights sites I do SEO upon. 65% Traffic drop in one month. No changes on the site. 80% of search terms just plain gone.

1. Does that mean that everything that I did before was bad or wrong?
NO

2. Did I receive bad advice at some time?
NO

3. Did I go back to the same people that gave me advice before?
You betcha!

The SEO expert you have worked with in the past is the best person to help you, because he knows your site, knows your optimization strategies.

Optimization is not a ONE TIME ACTIVITY. It is always changing. And part of an SEOs job is to try to keep up with the changes. However we all get caught on the bleeding edge at times. I will bet that none of the SEOs on this board can say that they never gave advice or implemented a change that did not backfire (or get changed for the worse) at least once.

I know that your SEO is making a deatiled analysis of your site (no matter if you are paying him or not) to figure out what advice he gave you backfired. He (like us) need to figure out those details so he does not give that advice again. He will probably disconver a new Google Rule.

Don't blame the SEO for pushing the bleeding edge, you blame an SEO for using blackhat SEO, but so far I have seen no blackhat SEO mentioned for your site.

[Catfish]

1) I don't think your banned because you have page rank and backlinks and your indexed.
2) You can be found by searching for the following phrase:
"the most trusted name in Real Estate in the Greater Metro Atlanta Area"
Thus you are definately not banned.
3) Many people have reported being "sandboxed" after doing especially agressive link exchanges.
4) Google rarely "bans" sites by hand as they prefer a more algo approach and I doubt that you would be one of their "biggest" offenders.
5) You should NOT claim that SEO Guy is responsible for getting you banned when he is not because you are not banned.
6) No one understands "the sandbox" effect but I would be willing to wager that you are in it.
7) Your domain is not older than March 2004 which makes you a prime candidate for the Sandbox.
8) BAD NEWS - Nothing you can do to get out of it except wait.
9) If possible, you may want to set up a hompage at http://www.realtor.com as this page http://www.realtor.com/Atlanta/nbregion.asp?poe=realtor is already listed in the top 10 for your keywords.
10) If I had a problem with your service, I would never make accusations without being sure I knew what I was talking about, especially if it concerned real estate which I know nothing about. I would advise (which is also free) for you to adopt the same philosophy with regard to SEO. Especially since by your own admission you nothing about it, and since you are obviously upsetting the people who can help you the most by accussing one of the most respected names in the indutry (at least as far as the forums that you post in).

I hope this will help your situation. I can relate and it is no fun especially when you feel like you paid for a service designed to prevent this unintended consequence. The only thing I can say is that SEO Guy should have warned you about the possible ramifications of sitewide links which have been speculated for some time now. However, on the flip side it is also common practice in the industry so there is an understandable grey area.

Last thing I would recommend (for free :) is that you not rely in SEO as your primary lead generation stream as it will NEVER stay consistent. That doesn't mean it can't be cost effective but there aren't many successful professinal gamblers. Hope that helps.

[Old Welsh Guy]

Google has been dropping pages and then picking them back up like crazy. But I have to say that I am with New computer here that if your running a cross linking thing across a set of sites, then your heading into dangerous waters. be more selective, only cross link between pages that are on topic to each other and then with some decent anchor text that is relevant to the pages, and you should do well from it. Cross linking a group of sites, site wide is really not a good idea, especially if you have the same anchor text on all the links.

[Blogmaster]

Bottom line is anything you to to artificially raise your ranks (especially purchasing links based on PageRank), is not "cool" with Google. Ultimately, Google is trying to return relevant results that are not artificially manipulated.

I don't personally buy (or sell) links, as I don't think it's a good practice for long-term viability. But many people do. Just keep in mind you are walking a thin line when you are trying to "trick" Google into ranking your site higher. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. So in your particular situation, Google wins, they did what they are trying to do (keep artificially raised rankings down).

One can of course claim ignorance about it, but I think it would come down to who contacted whom. If you contacted someone to purchase links, it would be on your shoulders to educate yourself beforehand. If someone contacted you out of the blue to buy links, I think it would have been appropriate for them to educate you about the practice.

The best thing you can do at this point would be to remove all the artificial links you bought, and I bet you will find in about 2-3 months, your site will be in the index again (of course, not ranking as high as with the links, but at least it will be there).
this should be read by anyone before buying links - it should also be read by anyone who wants to post about how his site dropped ;)

[asterix]

lol do u get banned for having sitewide links ???

[Roman]

lol do u get banned for having sitewide links ???

You know this thread is almost 2 years old, they did things differently way back then;)

[Old Welsh Guy]

can sitewides hurt you?

Do a search for googlebowling ;)

[asterix]

here is something i would like to ask : would sitewide links to low or no pr site effect my pagerank or google search ??