Bluefind Directory

[GuyFromChicago]

This directory has been up for awhile, I first noticed it from a post that compar made. I have 2 paid listings in the directory (compar, you should contact them for your commission ;) )

I've seen comments on other boards about this directory and wanted to get the opinions of this group now the directory has been up for a bit. Before that, here's what I've seen and my experience:

I paid for two listings. Both were approved and added very quickly. I expect this though, as it's $40 for a listing. The first one went perfect, the second one they changed my title to somethign I didn't want and haven;t replied to my inquiries about correcting it so far. I just e-mailed them yesterday, so this may still be corrected.

I saw on another forum that the PR8 this directory has is bought and paid for. I have not been able to determine if they bought monthly links or permanent links. Will the PR8 go away? I guess that depends on how many $40 submission the directory gets.

One thing that is somewhat concerning: I checked over 100 pages that are supposed to be linking to the directory, and can't find a single page that actually has a link. Granted, I took a small sampling of the total number of links. What's concerning is I wonder if the owners of Bluefind have already stopped paying for the links they bought to get to PR8. If they did, it's just a matter of time before the PR8 starts declining.

I knew most of what I know today about this directory when I paid to submit my sites. Just like anything else that involves $ it's a calculated risk, one that I thought (and still think) is worth the risk.

Opinions? Comments?

[dazzlindonna]

With new directories, I usually wait to see if any of the inner pages get any PR. So far all the subcats I've looked at with Bluefind are still at PR0. We'll see...

[GuyFromChicago]

With new directories, I usually wait to see if any of the inner pages get any PR. So far all the subcats I've looked at with Bluefind are still at PR0. We'll see...

Some of have started picking up PR. Here's the Business & Industry catagory:

http://www.bluefind.com/dir/47.php

[disgust]

that doesn't display a PR for me actually

[GuyFromChicago]

that doesn't display a PR for me actually

Does for me, PR7.

[dazzlindonna]

But none of the actual categories within that category has any pr - and that's where a link would be.

[GuyFromChicago]

But none of the actual categories within that category has any pr - and that's where a link would be.

Correct.

In some of the other catagories though (like the sports one I listed in) if you have the right site you get listed one page off the index.

I don't doubt the PR will carry into the lower directories - that just takes time. It's a "newer" directory from what I can tell and PR hasn't worked it's way through yet.

[schlottke]

I will wait around 2 more months before submitting to them, right now its too young to tell if the risk is worth it in my opinion.

[SENewbie]

The listing for my site just picked up PR 5:

http://www.bluefind.com/dir/5725.php

The question is whether this PR actually exists already and just takes a couple months to show up in the toolbar. In either case I'm glad I paid a $40 one time fee for a PR5 page :)

[schlottke]

Yea, im noticing a PR5 for my catagories now too- hmm.

[JohnScott]

I paid for two listings. Both were approved and added very quickly. I expect this though, as it's $40 for a listing. The first one went perfect, the second one they changed my title to somethign I didn't want and haven;t replied to my inquiries about correcting it so far. I just e-mailed them yesterday, so this may still be corrected.

I'm looking through my inbox and not seeing anything from you concerning this. Did you email support @ bluefind.com?

BTW, thanks for submitting. :)

I saw on another forum that the PR8 this directory has is bought and paid for. I have not been able to determine if they bought monthly links or permanent links. Will the PR8 go away? I guess that depends on how many $40 submission the directory gets.

The PR8 is largely due to the Internet.com network advertising. We are planning on maintaining that advertising long term insofar as it delivers a lot of traffic along with the high backlink counts.

But, I believe we would maintain strong PR even if we did stop advertising there. We have IBLs from a lot of other high PR sites, too. Not just the Internet.com network.

I checked over 100 pages that are supposed to be linking to the directory, and can't find a single page that actually has a link.

The Internet.com ads are in rotation with 40 other ads, so don't expect to see them on the page very often.

I wonder if the owners of Bluefind have already stopped paying for the links they bought to get to PR8. If they did, it's just a matter of time before the PR8 starts declining.

Never. I love the Internet.com network. They deliver good traffic and I have no plans to terminate my space on their network.

We are adding links daily and expect to have interior PR8 pages sooner rather than later.

[ginostylz]

Yes I see categories finally getting a little pr, too bad that the link pages haven't yet.
I didn't know PR would travel so slow. It was a little fishy that pr didn't go through the 3rd level pages, yet the index page was pr8. I would have assumed that the 3rd level pages would have been a pr2 by the time the index page was pr8.

Maybe the lower level pages was indexed with pr, but they changed technology PHP versus ASP without redirecting the older pages? That is the only explanation I can think of.

[JohnScott]

The PR is helter-skelter (sp?).

http://www.bluefind.com/dir/5725.php <- That is three levels down and has PR5, then one level above has PR7, and the level above that isn't showing PR yet.

Another weird thing:

http://www.bluefind.com/dir/564.php Washington State shows PR5.
http://www.bluefind.com/dir/545.php Nevada, on the same level, doesn't show PR yet.

Maybe the lower level pages was indexed with pr, but they changed technology PHP versus ASP without redirecting the older pages? That is the only explanation I can think of.

We did a mod_rewrite to shorten the URLs. I'm fairly confident PR will be showing on the vast majority of pages after the next PR update.

[compar]

About time you showed up John Scott. If I'm going to be your shill on all these forums the least you could do is keep up with the traffic. Geez! :D

[schlottke]

I believe the site will be just fine in the next update as well- You'll see some of my sites popping into your directory in the next couple days.

[GuyFromChicago]

I'm looking through my inbox and not seeing anything from you concerning this. Did you email support @ bluefind.com?

BTW, thanks for submitting. :)

The PR8 is largely due to the Internet.com network advertising. We are planning on maintaining that advertising long term insofar as it delivers a lot of traffic along with the high backlink counts.

But, I believe we would maintain strong PR even if we did stop advertising there. We have IBLs from a lot of other high PR sites, too. Not just the Internet.com network.

The Internet.com ads are in rotation with 40 other ads, so don't expect to see them on the page very often.

Never. I love the Internet.com network. They deliver good traffic and I have no plans to terminate my space on their network.

We are adding links daily and expect to have interior PR8 pages sooner rather than later.

John, thanks for stopping by to clarify. I have no reason to doubt what you say, so I'll take your word for it. If it all works out like you're planning it should be a fine directory.

Yes, that's the e-mail address I used. I'll send the message again. Thanks for the follow up.

[hulkster]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but for those interested in reading more about BlueFind and John Scott, click here to visit his forums. (http://www.internet-marketing-research.net/forums/index.php)

Since I see a lotta familiar faces over there, I suspect most people know about it, but head-on over there for definitive info about Bluefind ... although an argument could be made (and has been made) that JS might be slightly biased (!) ... but as observed from his comments above, he's seemed open to constructive comments and answers 'em head-on, so I respect that.

I gave JS/Bluefind a "ribbing" because the Hulkmobile (http://www.komar.org/hulk/) can't be found on it (it was a a thread comparing it to Google), but it's definately a different approach that Google.

There's a lotta wanna-be search engines/directories out there - bluefind seems to be more "interesting" than most and we'll see how it plays out ...

alek

[younghistorians]

I guess it would be smart to get into Bluefind now before it makes it really big ;)

[hulkster]

History is full of examples (ex: Yahoo - anyone else remember when this was run outa Stanford University?) where it woulda been great to get in early before it went big ... but hindsight is 20-20 ... much harder to predict beforehand obviousely.

So I didn't mean to say that Bluefind is "it" ... but among all the wanna-be's, it's one of the more "interesting" ones out there. As implied earlier, it's a bit more of a "serious" directory (the $40 fee is trivial for a serious business, but filters out the "fun/goofball/personal" stuff - Hulk's website has a buncha of those - and allows one to have a responsive staff versus volunteers (although I think ODP/dmoz is often unfairly maligned) and doesn't have any issues with multiple deep-links ... and from the discussion at IMR, John seems to want it to be much more than just another directory page rank link for 'ya ... i.e. something that is actually used to find stuff and (my guess) an eventual feed to other directories - maybe eventually selling to Google is one of the exit strategies?!? ;-)

It is somewhat ironic that a lot of the discussion about bluefind has centered about the page rank charecteristics of it, but this topic is near-n-dear to SEO'ers! ;-)

alek

[GuyFromChicago]

I guess it would be smart to get into Bluefind now before it makes it really big ;)

That's kind of how I see it. It's only $40. If it goes "big" that's a bargain. If it shuts down tomorrow it's no big loss.

Compare it to $300/year to be in Yahoo's directory and it's a great deal :)

[younghistorians]

I've had this link bookmarked for a LONG time now....and only $1000 back in the day:
http://docs.yahoo.com/docs/pr/launchform.html


fun!

[schlottke]

I agree with you guy- once I saw PR sinking 3 pages deep, I figured it was here to stay.

[JohnScott]

Just FYI, we are doing a discount day. From now till noon tomorrow Pacific Standard Time, submissions are just $30.

:)

[john_loch]

I've had this link bookmarked for a LONG time now....and only $1000 back in the day:
http://docs.yahoo.com/docs/pr/launchform.html


fun!

WOW !!!

I like that :)

[john_loch]

Just FYI, we are doing a discount day. From now till noon tomorrow Pacific Standard Time, submissions are just $30.

:)

Still waiting to see 'Real Estate' Deep linked off the Home Page.. :)

[GuyFromChicago]

I believe the site will be just fine in the next update as well- You'll see some of my sites popping into your directory in the next couple days.

I noticed the sports-wrestling catagory is PR 5.

[schlottke]

Fantastic job by the Bluefind staff. Submitted and added in under 2 hours.

[candysmith]

Hi to the guys at Bluefind...
PLEASE could you organise payment via another source other than Paypal. Paypal do not accept South African (and many other countries' credit cards). I wanna add 10 sites and can't! and I know all my opposition will be right behind me (they are all such copy cats!). Seriously, go check any directory under South Africa & you'll see the numbers you are losing out on.

[schlottke]

I;m sure they will have additional payment methods soon.

[younghistorians]

Hi to the guys at Bluefind...
PLEASE could you organise payment via another source other than Paypal. Paypal do not accept South African (and many other countries' credit cards). I wanna add 10 sites and can't! and I know all my opposition will be right behind me (they are all such copy cats!). Seriously, go check any directory under South Africa & you'll see the numbers you are losing out on.

You might want to try emailing John directly.

[digitalpoint]

BTW, the PR update going on now brought sub-pages within BlueFind to where they probably should be... 1 click deep is PR7, 2 clicks is PR6, etc.

[DarrenC]

I've taken the gamble, for £22 it's worth the PR6 link in my category!

Saves waiting six million space years to get listed in DMOZ within that category :D

Darren :)

[GuyFromChicago]

It sure did. My $40 got me a PR7 link.

[DarrenC]

.... :o added to the directory within 1 hr of submitting.. impressed!

[schlottke]

Anyone else see the post where PhilC badmouths Bluefind? He seems like a blowhard moron by just reading that post.

http://www.webworkshop.net/seoforum/viewtopic.php?t=1434

Look at his picture, I didn't know they did SEO in the trailor park

[digitalpoint]

What BlueFind really needs is a affiliate program. Imagine how many people would promote it.

[schlottke]

No kidding- if they offered even $5 per sign up, it could be very lucrative for both ends. Although it would probably slide off after a few months.

[GuyFromChicago]

What BlueFind really needs is a affiliate program. Imagine how many people would promote it.

I know I would...heck, I practically do already :)

[JohnScott]

We might do a "submission rebate" program for SEO's and web designers who submit ten URLs or more.

[spyder]

Anyone listed in Bluefind prepared to say whether PR is being transferred?

And how well?

Is PR transfer still happening with Google?

Does it matter if there are over 20, 30 links going out of the directory page?

[Blogmaster]

what is more important, related content or high PR?

[nacho45]

what is more important, related content or high PR?

I'd say both. I don't think either could ever hurt!

Why? Are you offering :D

[I, Brian]

There's no update to see the effects of PR on listed sites as yet - but, personally, I would place primary concern on the quality of the listing. John and co are doing a good job of keeping the directory clean and link bombing free, which can only be a sign of a quality link.

[younghistorians]

Bluefind recently raised their price from $30 to $49.95.

[melaniejk]

Hi, younghistorians.
Yes, I just noticed the same thing. I was going to submit and saw the increase in price. Darn.

[GuyFromChicago]

It was $40 when I submit. Wasn't the $30 thng a short lived special promotion of some kind?

[DarrenC]

Anyone seen there link on this directory included in Google yet?

I have a PR6 link on one category, that's been there for three months, and it's not appeared on my latest BL's on Google.

Anyone having the same problem?

[l234244]

Same here, not coming up in backlinks, yet.

[younghistorians]

It was $40 when I submit. Wasn't the $30 thng a short lived special promotion of some kind?

Yeah it was...sorry!

[schlottke]

I've seen mine - I did Add URL in google (since the PR on the directory page is already there anyway) and it added the page with the link

[DarrenC]

Sorry Schlottke, not with you.

Do you mean you manually submitted the directory page to Google?

Should you have to do this?

Please explain.


Thanks,
A Thicko

[GuyFromChicago]

Anyone seen there link on this directory included in Google yet?

I have a PR6 link on one category, that's been there for three months, and it's not appeared on my latest BL's on Google.

Anyone having the same problem?

None of my submissions (3) show as links yet, they just show in the "contains the term" search. One is on PR7 page so it will be interesting to see how long it takes it to show as a link.

[l234244]

Surely 3 months is long enough to get credited for the link?

[spyder]

>>>>>>>>
One is on PR7 page so it will be interesting to see how long it takes it to show as a link.
>>>>>>>>
How does one tell that PR is being transferred?
Even if your HomePage PR goes up to 6 - how do you tell that it is due to a particular link to your site?

<<<<<
Surely 3 months is long enough to get credited for the link?
<<<<<
So it doesn't seem that that Bluefind is "transfering" PR?

[DarrenC]

Surely 3 months is long enough to get credited for the link?
<<<<<
So it doesn't seem that that Bluefind is "transfering" PR?

I'm not saying that - it's just weird that I haven't seen a BL yet from my PR7 and PR6 links on the directory. There could well be a reason for it, and thus the reason for my question :D

If everyone else is having the same problem, then yes, it might well not be transferring PR or is in some type of link sandbox theory that I've heard bandered around recently.

Darren :)

[l234244]

I wouldnt be to worried about it at the moment, with the way the PR updates it might just need one more update to change PR.

[Dominic]

I've seen backlinks showing from this directory so don't worry about it.

[l234244]

Thankyou for confirming this Dominic, I also starting to get a few hits from bluefind so looks like it is starting to generate traffic, anyone else see this?

[TechEvangelist]

I'm getting some traffic from BlueFind, but it never has shown up as a backlink even though I was one of the first to sign up and the listing page has a PR7. This could be related to the last G backlink update that wiped out all of the directory listings from my backlinks.

[DarrenC]

I'm not seeing it as a link as such but when I do allinurl:www.mydomain.com it appears in the list - usually if its in this list and not displaying on the link: then I assume its lower than PR4 but since we've had changes to how links are being displayed AND no changes to PR (toolbar) for a while this might be why.

Darren :)

[DarrenC]

Oh, and sorry - not got any traffic from Bluefind yet, that's not surprising me though very few directories provide that much traffic, usually the odd visitor here and there (usually webmasters!)

[spyder]

<<<<
...... when I do allinurl:www.mydomain.com it appears ...
<<<<
What a good domain name this mydomain.com is - they must be getting thousands of unintentional free 1-way links!!! And they just got another one!

[schlottke]

Sorry Schlottke, not with you.

Do you mean you manually submitted the directory page to Google?

Should you have to do this?

Please explain.


Thanks,
A Thicko


You shouldnt have to do it, but I was impatient and didn't know how long it would take for google to respider ever page in there (as you know some unchanged pages will go unnoticed. Simply add it to the Add URL DB and youre set. (I Noticed the link upon the next update.

[DarrenC]

Ohh well still no backlink, something strange there, every other directory Ive submitted to no problems but with this directory, it simply isn't showing up as a backlink.

So how do I know if my PR6 and PR7 links are being taken into my sites PR..

Anyone else still having problems with no backlink from this directory?

[Dominic]

I wouldn't trust google's reporting of backlinks as full and accurate these days. Do you still?

[GuyFromChicago]

Anyone else still having problems with no backlink from this directory?

My submissions have not shown as backlinks yet. I aksed the same question, is anyone showing an actual link from Bluefind? I don't remember if it was this forum or not, but someone showed me a site that had a reported link from Bluefind. I'll see if I can't find that thread sometime today and will post it link to it if I do.

[digitalpoint]

Both my sites I submitted (www.digitalpoint.com and www.sendwu.com) report getting a back link from Blue Find.

[Blogmaster]

I have gotten clients into bluefind and the bluefind page they are on is the one ranking for the keywords I want my clients to rank for. Sam with some other sites that carry a lot of weight. Bluefind seems to lay low right now but still has a lot of power. But then again, who can tell 100% what Google validates these days.

[leeds1]

Both my sites I submitted (www.digitalpoint.com and www.sendwu.com) report getting a back link from Blue Find.


I wondered why we were getting so many WU ads on the network :D

[JohnScott]

I wouldn't trust google's reporting of backlinks as full and accurate these days. Do you still?

The "link:" command on Google is pretty much irrelevant and meaningless, IMHO.




Both my sites I submitted (www.digitalpoint.com and www.sendwu.com) report getting a back link from Blue Find.


Good to hear, but I still reckon that links that don't show in a "link:" search are being counted.

[Nazarite]

I've never heard of them and they don't have a free submission. Can't believe all those ppl paid to be included in the directory!

[younghistorians]

I've never heard of them and they don't have a free submission. Can't believe all those ppl paid to be included in the directory!

They pay for the pagerank. The main directory page has a PR8, and some of the inner pages have PR 7 or 6.

[Bernard]

You can always check if the page with your listing is indexed (http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:www.bluefind.com&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&filter=0). If it is, chances are quite good that Google knows about your listing. ;)

[Blogmaster]

Bluefind kicks ass

[quadcity]

>Can't believe all those ppl paid to be included in the directory!
People pay to be included in Yahoo. BF is a better value. One-time fee and much better customer service as well.

[ginostylz]

Often times I go to blue find to see if any links they sell count as backlinks. Bluefind is was often filled with empty pages with only 3 sponsered listings that are the same site wide. Are they hiding thier outbound links via php? I couldn't find one that counted as a backlink. Does anyone else link purchased in Bluefind count towards a backlink for you?

Most Yahoo links count as backlinks too.

[smindsrt]

BF links show up and even if you don't see them they are counted. $50.00 is a good price, they could charge more and most people would pay it.

How many PR8 Directories are there? Not too many!

[ginostylz]

Does anyone here have a backlink from BlueFind? Does it even show up in yahoo? Any examples?
Thanks

[smindsrt]

I just sent you a PM. Both of my links from BF show up in Yahoo.

[ginostylz]

<Squeek>
I stand corrected.
</Squeek>
Well given the fact that yahoo can spider the link, and If bluefind brings traffic I'd say 50 is reasonable.

[eduardomaio]

Well, my categorie (and others) now show nothing on the toolbar, and using the SEO Chat PR tool it gives a change from 5 to 0... Now this is really bad :(

[UKZJ007]

I have 4 sponsered listings in good cats, one is PR7 - The PR doesn't seem to be passing well imo. I am also getting like 1 unique visitor per day if i'm lucky.

[DarrenC]

Something weird is going on.

Both my listings were PR7 & PR6

http://www.bluefind.com/dir/2128.php
http://www.bluefind.com/dir/2886.php

Now when you go to these pages the toolbar is showing gray.

When I've looked in Google these pages are no longer indexed in Google - which means I've had dropped 2 very good links to the site. My own PR has reduced from PR6 to PR5 which could be one or the reason why it's reduced.

[WilliamC]

bluefind was penalized almost a month ago now over a weekend. You are just seeing the after effects now.

[GuyFromChicago]

bluefind was penalized almost a month ago now over a weekend. You are just seeing the after effects now.

Fist I have heard about it. was it for buying/selling PR? Do you know of any discussion on the subject?

[WilliamC]

I think it was discussed at seo-guy's place, if I remember correctly. Quite the few people noticed that the links were not helping them at all, then it was noticed that almost all of their pages were dropped from cache and dropped into the supplemental index. John came on to say later that they had been talking to someone at google and it was just a glitch, and it was being fixed. It hasnt been. Their pages still do not pass PR or ranking ability either apparently, and now, after this PR update, it appears they never will. Obviously PR updates are not influenced by pages being added to the supplemental index or anything else except inbound links, so a glitch won't explain this one away.

[GuyFromChicago]

I've seen a few posts where people showed that Google was reporting links from Bluefind as actual links, but it's never happened for any of the sites I listed.

I have a sports site listed here (http://www.bluefind.com/dir/61.php) and just noticed there's no cache for that page anymore...

It's never appeared as a link to my site in Google, but the page was at least cached until recently. My link was the second or third one listed on that page too so it's been there for months.

Wonder if Google whacked them for buying and selling PR? They built the directories PR primarily from advertising with Internet.com right? Wonder how that fits into this situation.

[Dominic]

No offence to you WilliamC, but after John Scott slamed you and banned you in his forum for something about your business (something I know nothing about or have any opinion on), I would tend to look for information / comments on Bluefind from someone who doesn't have a beef with John.

I'm not defending John or Bluefind, or saying you are wrong or are painting the situation one way or another, but while you have a major beef with eachother I'd like to hear comments from others on this one thanks. Just the same as I would look for comments from people other than John on your business.

[WilliamC]

Domenic, I agree 100%. There are a number of threads on the issue out there, of which I am not even a participant.

[WilliamC]

It's never appeared as a link to my site in Google, but the page was at least cached until recently. My link was the second or third one listed on that page too so it's been there for months.

Wonder if Google whacked them for buying and selling PR? They built the directories PR primarily from advertising with Internet.com right? Wonder how that fits into this situation.

I would think it was more the way they sold the listings, talking up the PR aspect of it all.

[DarrenC]

So just out of interest if they are penalised and they have linked to you, you can't be penalised .. right?

I'm right to also say if we lost a PR7 and PR6 links this could be why our site has reduced to PR5? (along with other links that could of reduced on other sites!)

[Dominic]

If a site is penalised, IMO it cant hurt you if they link to you.

It could be the reason for the PR decrease if that is what has happened.

We have seen (last update) when yahoo went from 10 to 9, there seemed to be a redistribution of the total pr weight within the index, effect many sites which were weak pr5's going to pr4s and so on.

Also noticed a change in the value of internal links [less powerful].

Also noticed internal pages which had links from other sites enjoyed higher than expected pr and serps.

A lot of changes really, but I am not in any kind of position to say I think this is how it works now, just what I have noticed with our sites.

I am waiting for someone to publish an argument or results from testing to suggest TSPR has been implemented though, that would be an interesting read.

[DarrenC]

testing to suggest TSPR has been implemented though

What's TSPR Dominic? :)

[eduardomaio]

Quoting myself from the V7N forums...

As for me, it appears that in the World page (http://www.bluefind.com/dir/54.php) the reason of the gray PR bar is because of 3 links on it...

- www.chicago-condos.net
- www.worldinfocountries.com
- www.dirone.com/search.php?about=world

This 3 websites show a gray PR bar, so I guess BlueFind is getting those pages devalued with a gray bar too because of linking to "bad neighbors".

I'm now waiting for an answer from John to see what will he say about this issue.

[Dominic]

What's TSPR Dominic? :)

Topic Sensitive Page Rank (TSPR)

Google Search (http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-51,GGLD:en&q=topic+sensitive+pagerank)

[longcall911]

I'm the only listing in a cat that was created for me a couple of months ago. That page was of course a PR0 but with the new update has gone to PR3.

I have been extremely happy with bluefind.com (except that now I find this page is no longer being cached. hhmmmm...)

[eduardomaio]

This was the reply from John...

I think that has more to do with duplicate content. That list of languages is used in hundreds, if not thousands, of web pages.

I feel like someone is throwing sand to my eyes...

Anyway... let's see how this is going to end... it's a one fee submission so...

[GuyFromChicago]

I have been extremely happy with bluefind.com (except that now I find this page is no longer being cached. hhmmmm...)

That's the part that sparked my interest too. Up until recently (this post is made me look and notice) the page I was listed on was cached...now it's not. I knew from the beginning that there's a risk associated with spending money on direcory submissions, so I'm not complaining about. More curious as to what is happening and why. If they were penalized for some reason, knowing that reason could potentially save any of us some time and aggravation in the future. If they are not penalized, what's with all the pages that are no longer indexed :confused:

(I have two other listing at Bluefind and neither one of them shows a cache of the page either)

[DarrenC]

From what I've read in other forums, the directory had a over 20,000 pages removed from the Google index - this was due to a "glitch" in Google, according to Google, and they quickly included the pages back in the index.

Firstly, I'm very surprised Google have admitted that they had a glitch, as they are very careful not to give too much away to webmasters. All I know is that $80 worth of links I paid for (2 links) are no use.

I know that there is a risk with directories, but something has gone wrong, maybe they are being penalised for buying PR (Links) Who knows?

[schlottke]

I'd like to see where they would actually admit to a glitch, I don't see it happening to be honest...

[GuyFromChicago]

I'd like to see where they would actually admit to a glitch, I don't see it happening to be honest...

You and me both. I can't see Google even taking the time to address the issue (how often do they comment/react to issue with one site?) and don't understand what kind of glitch could only effect one site. I would think if there were truley a glitch it would have effected hundreds - thousands of sites...not just one.

Pure speculation here, but my guess is they got whacked for buying/selling PR. If that's the case, wouldn't the Sevenseek Directory be the next target on the list? They use pretty much the same sales tactics as Bluefind.

If anyone has more info regarding this (like threads where it's being discussed) please post info.

[Eli]

I'd wait for a clear clue to submit to BF.

[compar]

I just checked with McDar's data center tool and the home page, www.bluefind.com, is showing either 10800 or 10900 backlinks and PR8 on every data center. So obviously the entire site hasn't been dropped or devalued.

[joeychgo]

yeah - but check individual link pages- they arent even cached. even the home page -- Your search - cache:http://www.bluefind.com/ - did not match any documents.


How could it be a pr 8 and not be cached?

[JohnScott]

You and me both. I can't see Google even taking the time to address the issue (how often do they comment/react to issue with one site?) and don't understand what kind of glitch could only effect one site. I would think if there were truley a glitch it would have effected hundreds - thousands of sites...not just one.

Pure speculation here, but my guess is they got whacked for buying/selling PR. If that's the case, wouldn't the Sevenseek Directory be the next target on the list? They use pretty much the same sales tactics as Bluefind.


Despite a lot of the paranoia I see around seo forums, Google is actually not the trigger happy monster many people appear to think they are. When my original webmaster forum got dropped from Google, it was GoogleGuy who initiated contact and offered to look into the situation (I still have the PM in my webmasterworld inbox :) ). He readily admitted it was an error on Google's part (it had been hit by the expired domain filter), and it was restored to the previous PR and rankings in the next update.


This time around with BlueFind, I wasn't too worried about it, but after a month of watching the pages drop from Google's index, I took a chance and contacted them again. They seemed sincerely interested in finding a remedy and had the engineering dept look into it. As sure as their word, three days later we had 40,000+ pages back in the index.

As far as I'm concerned, it was a mole hill. I understand the paranoia surrounding it, but frankly, I don't see much credibility to it. If Google does decide it doesn't like BlueFind, you won't have search high and low for "clues"; you'll see the PR8 disappear from the home page.

I don't expect Google to do that any time soon; but if they do - that's their right, and we will still keep plugging away at it. PR is not the defining principle of our business.

[JohnScott]

yeah - but check individual link pages- they arent even cached. even the home page -- Your search - cache:http://www.bluefind.com/ - did not match any documents.


How could it be a pr 8 and not be cached?


Google still has the wrong home page indexed -

http://www.google.com/search?q=www.bluefind.com/index.php

[GuyFromChicago]

Thanks for the clarification John.

Leave people to speculate and that's what they will do ;)

[Mel]

hmmm... When I search on Google for site:www.bluefind.com I see only 290 pages in Googles index and of those pages roughly 25% are not yet indexed and I still see a PR0 on the home page.

[joeychgo]

hmmm... When I search on Google for site:www.bluefind.com I see only 290 pages in Googles index and of those pages roughly 25% are not yet indexed and I still see a PR0 on the home page.



Ummmm - how do you see 25% of the pages in the index arent indexed?

[Mel]

Google SERP listings which have links only with no title or description are indicative of Google knowing of a link to the page, but have not yet spidered or indexed it.

[WhatiFind]

There's a thread about this matter at http://www.v7n.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19296

pages like http://www.bluefind.com/tos.php still has a pr3 and is still in google cache http://216.239.59.104/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluefind.com%2Ftos.php

When i do a search for http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&q=site%3Abluefind%2Ecom it returns over 19000 pages indexed by google.

BL's are still over 7000 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-07%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=link%3Awww.bluefind.com

One other thing is this directory //parentmix.surebaby.com/ is has exactly the same structure as bluefind, maby Google finds the same structure in 2 directories as duplicate content, don't know for sure.

[l234244]

One other thing is this directory //parentmix.surebaby.com/ is has exactly the same structure as bluefind, maby Google finds the same structure in 2 directories as duplicate content, don't know for sure.


Thats kind of saying every forum that uses the same skin/structure will be penalized and this does not happen. There must be thousands using the default vBulletin or phpBB template.

[Mel]

There's a thread about this matter at http://www.v7n.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19296

pages like http://www.bluefind.com/tos.php still has a pr3 and is still in google cache http://216.239.59.104/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluefind.com%2Ftos.php

When i do a search for http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&q=site%3Abluefind%2Ecom it returns over 19000 pages indexed by google.

BL's are still over 7000 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-07%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=link%3Awww.bluefind.com

One other thing is this directory //parentmix.surebaby.com/ is has exactly the same structure as bluefind, maby Google finds the same structure in 2 directories as duplicate content, don't know for sure.

Yes you are right, Google has changed the number of pages listed in Bluefind since yesterday, but there are some other significant changes too. For a starter Google only shows by default 32 out of 19,900 pages when you do a site search and many of these pages are in the supplemental index, but both bluefind.com and bluefind.com/index.php are still showing a PR0 even though both pages are cached. It may be that the pages actually have PR again but it will not show on the toolbar until the next update, but it looks to me like Bluefind is not one of Googles favorite sites.

Nothing to do but wait and see I guess.

[GuyFromChicago]

Looks like Bluefind is still on Google's crap list. Lots of indexed pages but still no PR. Wonder if the directory actually gets any Google traffic.

[spondishy]

Looks like Bluefind is still on Google's crap list. Lots of indexed pages but still no PR. Wonder if the directory actually gets any Google traffic.

I'd have thought so. Google isn't the only one, but its definitely better to be in Google's good books :)

[GuyFromChicago]

I'd have thought so.

:confused: No idea what you mean.

Google isn't the only one, but its definitely better to be in Google's good books :)

ok.....:rolleyes:

[spondishy]

:confused: No idea what you mean.



ok.....:rolleyes:

Hi, I just meant I guess they will get some google traffic as they are still cached in Google.

[GuyFromChicago]

Hi, I just meant I guess they will get some google traffic as they are still cached in Google.

Gotcha.

I really wonder if they do. I've never had a site penalized like BF is so I really don't know. I would assume they still do get Google traffic...but would not be shocked to find out they don't.

[spondishy]

Gotcha.

I really wonder if they do. I've never had a site penalized like BF is so I really don't know. I would assume they still do get Google traffic...but would not be shocked to find out they don't.

Page 4 in google for search "bluefind" (site url only, no description). Top in yahoo.

[GuyFromChicago]

Page 4 in google for search "bluefind" (site url only, no description). Top in yahoo.

I was just checking that out too...if you're page 4 for your own name in Google odds are you're not getting much traffic from Google.

I did a Google search for Bluefind Terms of Service looking for this page (http://www.bluefind.com/tos.php) and it shows up way down the list....

[WilliamC]

notice that WhatIFind posted the ToS url as still being cached:

http://216.239.59.104/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluefind.com%2Ftos.php

It isn't anymore.

[GuyFromChicago]

I still see a cached copy.

http://64.233.161.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-25,GGLG:en&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluefind.com%2Ftos.php

(it's from December 18, 2004)

[WilliamC]

Your search - cache:http://www.bluefind.com/tos.php - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.

[GuyFromChicago]

I see the cached copy.

[WhatiFind]

Some pages are still cached by google but results can be different depending on the various data centers.

Bl's range from 303 to 377 and pages cached range from 19700 to 64300 (mcdar.net)

But the bluefind web directory is not what it used to be.. Found another internal page still with pagerank. http://www.bluefind.com/dir/7547.php

Also noticed that alexa.com has a pr0, some internal pages like: http://www.alexa.com/browse?&CategoryID=71t still has a pr5.

But it's not uncommon that the homepage has a lower pr than internal pages, seeing it around the internet alot these days..

What is said before is that pr is not really that important anymore.

[Dominic]

Fyi, John is redesigning and updating (http://www.v7n.com/forums/sevenseek-bluefind-issues/26694-bluefind-redesign-overhaul.html) the Bluefind (http://www.bluefind.com) Directory: whose homepage has again got TBPR ... PR6.

[Mel]

Yes but the internal pages are still PR0

[CReed]

Yes but the internal pages are still PR0

If you check the robots.txt (http://www.bluefind.com/robots.txt) you'll see why - crawling is blocked.

User-agent: Googlebot
Disallow: /dir
Disallow: /add

[Dominic]

If you check the robots.txt (http://www.bluefind.com/robots.txt) you'll see why - crawling is blocked.

User-agent: Googlebot
Disallow: /dir
Disallow: /add

Good to see someone read John's explination.

[onedollar]

was it given its PR back after contacting google or did it happen by itself?

[Dominic]

It was returned during the latest PR update, so whatever occured prior to this e.g. John contacting them or whatever, it updated along with everyone elses.

[WilliamC]

Good to see someone read John's explination.

I would be interested in hearing Johns explanation of why when it was originally penalized, right up until the past month, he stated to all the disgruntled people that he no longer owned it, that it was not his fault that he kept taking their money when he knew months in advance it was on googles shortlist.

Now all of a sudden he owns it again and is going to be updating it?

Too funny.

[JohnScott]

I would be interested in hearing Johns explanation of why when it was originally penalized, right up until the past month, he stated to all the disgruntled people that he no longer owned it, that it was not his fault that he kept taking their money when he knew months in advance it was on googles shortlist.

Quite a collection of dumb statements there, William.

1. I never knew it was on Google's short list, and neither did Google. Until recently I thought it was penalized because of our aggressive link buying, but now I have been informed that it was the fact that we sold the database of categories and it was a duplicate content issue.

We removed the duplicated categories from Google and voila, we got PR back.

2. Disgruntled clients? Nope, the only "disgruntled" I have is a disgruntled stalker - you. It's supremely entertaining in a morbid way the way you spend money to build and promote John Scott hate sites.

Anybody who was not happy and requested a refund got one. I think there may have been 4 or five people who requested refunds.

We also issued a few refunds to people who complained, but did not ask for refunds.


Now all of a sudden he owns it again and is going to be updating it?

When I sell a majority interest in a site or buy a majority interest back, I do not necessarily announce it to the world. A lot of businesses work like that. In fact, of the three web directory sales I know of, every one has had a NDA associated with it.

Having said that, I do believe that I announced at the time that we re-acquired BlueFind, which was many months ago.


Too funny.

Ditto, Will. :)

[WilliamC]

1. I never knew it was on Google's short list, and neither did Google. Until recently I thought it was penalized because of our aggressive link buying, but now I have been informed that it was the fact that we sold the database of categories and it was a duplicate content issue.

You damn well know it was for selling links based on pagerank.

You knew it then when at least 10 threads in various forums all started by different people who started seeing issues.

And you knew it when some of us told you it was going down.

That was MONTHS before the full effect of the penalties was seen by everyone. In that entire time you kept arguing that nothing was wrong. Then when it was apparent that something was wrong you started stating you no longer owned it anymore.

John, I actually do not mind the fact that you made a mistake. What I cared about was the constant lying about it over months and months just to keep taking peoples money.

2. Disgruntled clients? Nope, the only "disgruntled" I have is a disgruntled stalker - you. It's supremely entertaining in a morbid way the way you spend money to build and promote John Scott hate sites.


To be quite honest, I do not own those. However I do host them, and I may have given the person some documentation, such as criminal records. So far as yet, I have not seen anything on them that is untrue and actionable. I think the fact that you have not done anything about them shows that..

Anybody who was not happy and requested a refund got one. I think there may have been 4 or five people who requested refunds.

We also issued a few refunds to people who complained, but did not ask for refunds.

That would not surprise me, what I want to know is what about all the poor sobs who bought that did not know enough to complain loudly enough to get a refund.


Having said that, I do believe that I announced at the time that we re-acquired BlueFind, which was many months ago.

Kindly point out where that was done. The first anyone seems to know about it is when you announced that you would be updating the site. Which was after google lifted the penalty, which it always does after an arbitrary time, assuming you have stopped selling links on the site based on PR. Do I have personal experience with that? hell yes.

So much for dumb statements eh John?

[JohnScott]

You damn well know it was for selling links based on pagerank.

William, this has always been your problem. You go make statements as fact without any regard for the truth. Like when you announced that SearchEngineJournal was going to PR8 in the next update, and it didn't. You base your brash statements on nothing more than a poor understanding of search engines, and you go opening your mouth and time and again you put your foot in it (http://www.internet-marketing-blog.com/2006/02/02/thoughts-on-daron-babin-philc-williamc-and-credibility-on-the-internet/).

You had no idea why BlueFind was zinged, and neither did I. You can assume, and so can I. Just don't state as fact your own assumptions. IT tends to get you in a lot of trouble.


What I cared about was the constant lying about it over months and months just to keep taking peoples money.

I never lied about a thing. Are you saying I lied?

To be quite honest

LOL! William, you are a liar to the core. If I am wrong, sue me for libel. I say right here you are a liar.

You proved it time and again (http://www.internet-marketing-blog.com/2006/02/02/thoughts-on-daron-babin-philc-williamc-and-credibility-on-the-internet/). That made up phone call to Japan takes the cake, or maybe the imaginary 11 million uniques per month. Don't know which, but please don't use the word "honest". You are such a liar that people assume you are lying even when you aren't.


I do not own those. However I do host them, and I may have given the person some documentation, such as criminal records. So far as yet, I have not seen anything on them that is untrue and actionable. I think the fact that you have not done anything about them shows that..

I think you do own them. Whoever owns them is obviously too much of a coward to put their name on them, and you definitely fit the bill there.

I wouldn't want those sites removed. They are a beautiful testemant to your illness and you pathology. They have done more damage to you than I ever have. :)

Kindly point out where that was done. The first anyone seems to know about it is when you announced that you would be updating the site. Which was after google lifted the penalty, which it always does after an arbitrary time, assuming you have stopped selling links on the site based on PR. Do I have personal experience with that? hell yes.

You can go find it yourself. You are the only one who seems to have been in the dark.

And no, I never sold links based on PageRank.


http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html


Selling PageRank?

Because we have done some massive advertising, including buying links and banners from Internet.com and various other high PageRank, webmaster related sites, BlueFind now boasts a very strong PR8. Whenever a site has high PR, the question � Is this guy selling PR? � may come up. So, are we selling PageRank?

No. We aren�t. And I�ll tell you why. First, the PR8 is on the home page of BlueFind and on the About BlueFind page. But we aren�t selling listings on those pages. No amount of money would get you listed on either of those pages.

Second, when a webmaster submits their site, we do not guarantee listing. We have, in fact, refused to list some sites and refunded the submission fee. We are building a quality directory. One that serves the consumers as well as the webmasters. It�s a joint venture, and we are not going to sacrifice the integrity of the directory for $40.

Third, a lot of submissions do not even go on the PR7 or PR6 pages. One category getting a lot of submissions is BlueFind - Hosting, with just PR5. If you�re looking to increase PR, a listing in BlueFind most likely is not your best bet.

I still brag about the PageRank, just because PR8 does open a lot of doors that wouldn�t be open if we had a lesser PR. It is also an effective marketing tool, and we need to continue to generate revenue if we are going to successfully develop BlueFind into the kind of high-traffic website we want it to be. High PageRank is seen as a sign of credibility. It shouldn�t be; but it is. And as such, we use it accelerate the growth of BlueFind.

[WilliamC]

William, this has always been your problem. You go make statements as fact without any regard for the truth. Like when you announced that SearchEngineJournal was going to PR8 in the next update, and it didn't.

Actually, as I recall, that thread was in regards to "future pagerank" tools. And the one I chedked said PR8. If you cant handle that, sorry.


You had no idea why BlueFind was zinged, and neither did I. You can assume, and so can I. Just don't state as fact your own assumptions. IT tends to get you in a lot of trouble.

I will agree it was assumption. One shared by almost everyone who had anything to say about it way back then. The only ones were you and a few of your "mods" saying different, John. Hey, where is jazzee lately? i do not see her backing up your every claim anymore. Or how about Mr. Allison? Funny how when people really get to know you, they seem to disapear or come out with their real feelings isn't it?


I never lied about a thing. Are you saying I lied?

John, I have never said you were seo stupid or that you did not understand the engines. Knowing that, and the fact that the writing was very clearly on the wall, yet you still kept saying everything was allright to sell links on that site, leaves little to doubt.



LOL! William, you are a liar to the core. If I am wrong, sue me for libel. I say right here you are a liar.

Quit hiding behind japanese corporations and put up real whois info here in the USA. I will be happy to do a lot more than just sue you for libel :)

Come on John, only crooks hide, did you not say that a few hundred times in the past?


That made up phone call to Japan takes the cake

Then why did you call me the next day about my call to Japan, johnboy?

you remember, when I laughed at you, told you to talk to my lawyer, and hungup in your face? :)

or maybe the imaginary 11 million uniques per month. Don't know which, but please don't use the word "honest".

Oh, you mean the 11 million a month that 2 people were given access to the stats and confirmed on your own forum? Yeh that would be hard to believe. What you thought I would give you access? yeh right.

I think you do own them.

Fantastic. You are of course, wrong, but thats fine too, sue me as the host if its lies. :)

Whoever owns them is obviously too much of a coward to put their name on them, and you definitely fit the bill there.

That is funny being in this thread where it is ME that said something about you. I hide things? Not likely John. I am right here telling it as it is mate.

I wouldn't want those sites removed. They are a beautiful testemant to your illness and you pathology. They have done more damage to you than I ever have. :)

#1. You have not done anything, so doing more would not be difficult at all for anyone.

#2. I do not own them, but I do get to hear all the laughing due to people thinking I do, and I must say, it warms my heart and reminds me why I host them. And will continue to host them as long as they stay truthful. Do I feel its a hate site? No, not knowing who owns them. I do feel the site(s) are truthful however.


And no, I never sold links based on PageRank.

john John John, everyone knows you were blustering about the PR8 and going on and on about it, while in the midst of saying "buy links there". You did indeed sell links that were based only on pagerank, you may not have intended to, but i think we both know differently.



Taken from the URL you gave:

http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html

I still brag about the PageRank, just because PR8 does open a lot of doors that wouldn?t be open if we had a lesser PR. It is also an effective marketing tool, and we need to continue to generate revenue

That quote from that article right there John shows exactly what I mean. You bragged about the PR8 while in the middle of selling links. That to googles spam team and anyone else would say "We are selling links on a PR8 site.", not "Your buying ads for traffic."


Sorry John, but you can try to twist words all you like. They still don't stand up.

[JohnScott]

Quit hiding behind japanese corporations and put up real whois info here in the USA. I will be happy to do a lot more than just sue you for libel

I'll take you up on that, William. Scott Media Inc is a Washington corporation. I have residence in Washington.

You announced two years ago that you were suing me, what happened? I was living in Seattle until recently.

Actually, as I recall, that thread was in regards to "future pagerank" tools. And the one I chedked said PR8. If you cant handle that, sorry.

No, the thread (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?p=73671) was about SearchEngineJournal's PR.

You could have just done your homework (http://www.v7n.com/forums/google-forum/25263-iwebtool-pagerank-prediction-tool.html) before assuming things and stating them as fact.

The only ones were you and a few of your "mods" saying different, John. Hey, where is jazzee lately? i do not see her backing up your every claim anymore. Or how about Mr. Allison? Funny how when people really get to know you, they seem to disapear or come out with their real feelings isn't it?

I have to admit I only knew Mr Allison for a few months, but I assume he still lives in Spokane. Jazzee lives in PA to the best of my knowledge.

Come on John, only crooks hide, did you not say that a few hundred times in the past?

If you think the whois is false, call the damn phone number. I'll answer the phone.
Oh, you mean the 11 million a month that 2 people were given access to the stats and confirmed on your own forum?

Nobody ever confirmed anything of the sort.

Then why did you call me the next day about my call to Japan, johnboy?

you remember, when I laughed at you, told you to talk to my lawyer, and hungup in your face?

William, there you go lying again (http://www.v7n.com/forums/205643-post173.html). You called Japan, made up a conversation, I called you to call you on your lies and you shit your pants and hung up.

john John John, everyone knows you were blustering about the PR8 and going on and on about it, while in the midst of saying "buy links there". You did indeed sell links that were based only on pagerank, you may not have intended to, but i think we both know differently.

Yeah, I didn't hide the fact that we had PR8. But I stated clearly that people should not buy listings for PageRank (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html).


I hide things? Not likely John. I am right here telling it as it is mate.

You are telling me who owns those sites? I don't see it.

The first anyone seems to know about it is when you announced that you would be updating the site. Which was after google lifted the penalty

Again, misinformation. I announced the overhaul and redesign (http://www.v7n.com/forums/sevenseek-bluefind-issues/26694-bluefind-redesign-overhaul.html) on 03-11-2006.

BlueFind got PR back (http://www.v7n.com/forums/google-forum/27987-pagerank-update.html) on 04-04-2006.

[minstrel]

Oh, perfect... the WilliamC - MelC tag team is back... :rolleyes:

Can PhilC and JanethC be far behind? :eek:

What a total joke you people are.

[WilliamC]

I'll take you up on that, William. Scott Media Inc is a Washington corporation. I have residence in Washington.

You announced two years ago that you were suing me, what happened? I was living in Seattle until recently.

And hiding behind a japanese corporation.

No, the thread (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?p=73671) was about SearchEngineJournal's PR. [/quote]


Still seeing 7 Loren, however, judging by googles XML data for your site you should indeed be seeing a 8 at next update.
Congrats.
Rank_1:1:8 Rank_1:1:7 Rank_1:1:6 Rank_1:1:3 Rank_1:1:6 Rank_1:1:4 Rank_1:1:3 Rank_1:1:3 Rank_1:1:2 Rank_1:1:6 Rank_1:1:4 Rank_1:1:4 Rank_1:1:2 Rank_1:1:3 Rank_1:1:2


Maybe you just missed the 2 parts that said "judging by" and "you SHOULD" and just interpreted the post as fact. Somehow I doubt that tho.

Nice try tho, Johnny. :)


I have to admit I only knew Mr Allison for a few months, but I assume he still lives in Spokane. Jazzee lives in PA to the best of my knowledge.

Now no Johnboy, you know damn well I meant where are they as entails your forum and backing up everything you say. :)

Didn't you drop Jazzee off in PA, while she was pregnant with your son, and have not even seen your son? Basically abandoned him. Notice those are questions because that may just be rumor.

If you think the whois is false, call the damn phone number. I'll answer the phone.

If I said it was false then my bad, I dont recall calling it that tho. I seem to recall i said you were HIDING behind a japanese corporation. Same difference really.


Nobody ever confirmed anything of the sort.

You mean you deleted the posts where they did? You know damn well 2 people in fact saw the webalizer stats and confirmed the numbers.



William, there you go lying again (http://www.v7n.com/forums/205643-post173.html). You called Japan, made up a conversation, I called you to call you on your lies and you shit your pants and hung up.

LOL. There you go twisting things again Johnboy. You know damn well all that transpired was me laughing in your ear and telling you to talk to my lawyer. But at least now yu admit here that I did in fact call Japan. At first you said I made that up, which is it John? I mean it sure seems like you can not seem to keep your facts straight.



Yeah, I didn't hide the fact that we had PR8. But I stated clearly that people should not buy listings for PageRank (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html).

I never said you tried hiding the fact it was a PR8. Or that that PR8 was purchased. What I said was, you kept going on and on about the PR8 while in the middle of telling people to buy links. Together those say "buy a link on my PR8".


Again, misinformation. I announced the overhaul and redesign (http://www.v7n.com/forums/sevenseek-bluefind-issues/26694-bluefind-redesign-overhaul.html) on 03-11-2006.

BlueFind got PR back (http://www.v7n.com/forums/google-forum/27987-pagerank-update.html) on 04-04-2006.

Nice try again, but the sites PR changed in march in the PR export that happened directly before bigDaddy, before that export mainly got wiped during the BD rollout. In fact it was showing on the known BigDaddy datacenters for a month before the newest PR export.

As said before, i have never called you seo stupid, so it is a good bet you saw all this while it was happening.

Trying to word it so that what you say is not actually lying, but gives the impression that you just did not know wont cut it here. Not when you want everyone to think you know what you are doing.

[WilliamC]

Oh, perfect... the WilliamC - MelC tag team is back... :rolleyes:

Can PhilC and JanethC be far behind? :eek:

What a total joke you people are.

Sorry, I dont seem to recall Mel getting into this debate that john and I are having. I seem to recall him having made a single post of his own stating simply that the "inside pages were still PR0" that had nothing to do with what john and I are discussing really. I surely do not see Phil or janeth here. Maybe you need some time on your own couch. :)

To me, people who feel they can not contribute anything but silly flames or useless banter are the jokes.

[minstrel]

Perhaps you missed this just above (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=790495&postcount=127) in your rush to post your usual crap, WilliamC.

silly flames or useless banter
Interesting choice of words coming from you :rolleyes:

[jim]

Well I do love scrolling past tons of bickering! But there must come a point when we get back to the issue that concerns most of us. Is Bluefind worth submitting to now?

My understanding is that the directory is getting reorganized. I always guessed that the Google penalty was due to the organization (or lack of it) because that made the directory hard to use for humans. Bluefind's PR 8 was high profile enough fro Google to come along and drop the penalty.

Turns out I was wrong and it was more about duplicate content. I never saw that coming because all those DMOZ clones get away with it...

Anyway, if the directory has PR and is human friendly, what's not to like?

[WilliamC]

Perhaps you missed this just above (http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=790495&postcount=127) in your rush to post your usual crap, WilliamC.


Interesting choice of words coming from you :rolleyes:

Maybe if you actually opened your eyes and read my post you would havenoticed I included mels comment in there. Also Mel posted well in advance of me posting to John. He did not get into this discussion at all.

Yes, useless banter and silly flames.

[JohnScott]

Nice try again, but the sites PR changed in march in the PR xport that happened directly before bigDaddy, before that export mainly got wiped during the BD rollout. In fact it was showing on the known BigDaddy datacenters for a month before the newest PR export.


Now you are just lying through your teeth. BlueFind had a robots.txt excluding all bots before, and I had BlueFind entirely removed from Google. It wasn't showing PR anywhere before 04-04-2006.
Now no Johnboy, you know damn well I meant where are they as entails your forum and backing up everything you say.

Good imagination you have. I don't think there is any member on my forums who will back up everything I say. People tend to think their own thoughts and that is a good thing.

You mean you deleted the posts where they did? You know damn well 2 people in fact saw the webalizer stats and confirmed the numbers.


Nope, you showed some stats, nowhere near 11 million UV, of websites you did not indicate you own. Which websites were those, and where are the stats? Post the websites whois and the stats.

What I said was, you kept going on and on about the PR8 while in the middle of telling people to buy links. Together those say "buy a link on my PR8".

http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html

[WilliamC]

Now you are just lying through your teeth. BlueFind had a robots.txt excluding all bots before, and I had BlueFind entirely removed from Google. It wasn't showing PR anywhere before 04-04-2006.

Lying huh?

You blocked the robots from the /dir directory yes, but not the front page as I recall.

Oh and pagerank is not from a robot, though you should know this, as it is basic knowledge. PageRank is based on links only. If the only data google has to base on is inbound links, then it can still show a pagerank for the page even if you did indeed have them blocked.

I'll take you up on that, William. Scott Media Inc is a Washington corporation. I have residence in Washington.

Oh, you mean the corporation whose license expired in december of 2005? Heh.

http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000604.html

Yes, you keep refering to this single article. That does not discount the fact that in literally hundreds, if not thousands of posts on your forums, you did in fact sell links based on pagerank by inferring to people the benefit the PR8 would have.
Sorry John, but a single article amidst hundreds or more, just does not cut it :)

[JohnScott]

You blocked the robots from the /dir directory yes, but not the front page as I recall.

At that time, I removed BlueFind entirely from Google's index. Where did you get the idea it had PR of any kind before the update?

Oh, you mean the corporation whose license expired in december of 2005? Heh.

Yup, that one. No coproration is saying anything here - I am, and I have residence in Washington. Quit making up excuses and bring on that imaginary legal action already. Drop me a PM if you want my attorney's contact info. :)

[minstrel]

Maybe if you actually opened your eyes and read my post
Now that's too much, WilliamC -- asking people to actually "read" your posts? If there were any credible content in anything you've ever posted, it might be just too tempting to resist, but as it is it's all just the same old vitriolic crap and attempted character assassination over and over again. I'm afraid even skimming what you post is more than I can stomach most days.

[WilliamC]

Now that's too much, WilliamC -- asking people to actually "read" your posts?

Thanks for admitting that you post useless garbge about posts without actually reading the post. Says a lot about you mate :)

[WilliamC]

At that time, I removed BlueFind entirely from Google's index. Where did you get the idea it had PR of any kind before the update?

From a nifty little checker we have running for 100's of sites. It helps us see when an update has started, generally before many others. Not difficult to do now that some people have released the code to check PR via script to the public.

Yup, that one. No coproration is saying anything here - I am, and I have residence in Washington. Quit making up excuses and bring on that imaginary legal action already.

You posted the bit about the corporation as if any information towards suing you could easily be attained by that. The corp was registered thru a proxy or registered agent if you like. The washington SET website shows no useful info. So providing that you had a WA corp was just another attempt to make people think you were not hiding when in fact you were actually giving nothing away. Not bad, but too easily found out.

[JohnScott]

Like I said Will, if you want my attorney's info, just ask :) I'm betting you're full of BS.

From a nifty little checker we have running for 100's of sites. It helps us see when an update has started, generally before many others. Not difficult to do now that some people have released the code to check PR via script to the public.

Nope, the URL wasn't even in Google's index.

[WilliamC]

Like I said Will, if you want my attorney's info, just ask :) I'm betting you're full of BS.

Just answer the PM, and we shall see :)

[minstrel]

Thanks for admitting that you post useless garbge (sic) about posts without actually reading the post. Says a lot about you mate (sic)
As I said, I can get all of the substance from your posts with a fast skim. In fact, I can get all of the substance from most of your posts by not even skimming them.

Always love your fake British colloquialisms by the way, WC. :D

I'm betting you're full of BS
That kind of bet is hardly taking a big risk when it comes to WilliamC, is it, John?

[WilliamC]

As I said, I can get all of the substance from your posts with a fast skim. In fact, I can get all of the substance from most of your posts by not even skimming them.

Yes, that was apparent by your being 100% wrong in your flame post. ZzZzZzzz...


Always love your fake British colloquialisms by the way, WC. :D

Which would those be exactly? I spent 9 months living in brisbane Australia and picked a few things up of their lingo, but have never used anything uniquely british that I recall at all "ya wanker" :)

Ooops, ok so maybe I did just this once :)

[WhatiFind]

Haven't read the latest posts in this thread but just noticed the new style bluefind went online.

Good luck with running and promoting your 'restyled' bluefind web directory.

For all more info here.. http://www.internet-marketing-blog.com/2006/04/12/bluefind/ and ofcourse http://www.bluefind.com/

[JohnScott]

Haven't read the latest posts in this thread but just noticed the new style bluefind went online.

Good luck with running and promoting your 'restyled' bluefind web directory.



Thanks

We'll be having free submission days so stay tuned. :)

[jim]

I love free submission days! What are you going to do about people like me with 100s of submissions lined up and ready to go?Thanks

We'll be having free submission days so stay tuned. :)

[JohnScott]

Hi Jim,

We'll do it by category, I think. I want to get the regional categories populated. :)

[JohnScott]

Hi Jim,

We'll do it by category, I think. I want to get the regional categories populated. :)

[jim]

Didn't you do that on Sevenseek a while back? Submit one and get a regional lisitng free or something? Or you could do what WoW does and require people to submit to a regional category in addition to aregular one.

Personally I just don't bother with regionals on my directory...
Hi Jim,

We'll do it by category, I think. I want to get the regional categories populated. :)

[minstrel]

Here's an interesting news item about WilliamC's recent professional activities (http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=11831192&src=rss/oddlyEnoughNews), in case anyone is curious.

Meanwhile, the rest of the C family seems to be on vacation in Chicago (http://cbs11tv.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_102081832.html).

[JohnScott]

Yeah, we should do it more often. I guess I just got busy with other stuff.

[WilliamC]

Here's an interesting news item about WilliamC's recent professional activities (http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=11831192&src=rss/oddlyEnoughNews), in case anyone is curious.

Meanwhile, the rest of the C family seems to be on vacation in Chicago (http://cbs11tv.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_102081832.html).


Is that the best you can do Menstrual? Sheesh. Always predictable. You get beat down by facts and your own mis-postings and you have to resort to posting garbage.

So sad. Especially when you have to resort to bringing peoples families into it. Pathetic really.

It does however show a lot about the real you, thanks for that, I think I will go post your quote on all the psych forums now. :)

Edit: Corrected typo of a missing r.

[minstrel]

Is that the best you can do Menstual?
You spelled "menstrual" wrong, Willie.

Hilarious joke, though. I'm surprised no one has ever thought of that one before. :rolleyes:

[kkibak]

I'm surprised no one has ever thought of that one before

someone's thought of that before?! ;)

[compar]

To me, people who feel they can not contribute anything but silly flames or useless banter are the jokes.
Wow! You and John have way too much time on your hands. Even if you type like the wind each of these responses takes up way too much time and effort.

You guys have been having this fight for years. Nothing is ever proven. Why don't you just give up. Live and let live. Ignore each other and see how that goes.

[NRLMedia]

So sad. Especially when you have to resort to bringing peoples families into it. Pathetic really.
You know what is pathetic? You waste your time and money on trying to deface another human being and their success.

If malice or envy were tangible and had a shape, it would be the shape of WilliamC.
Here are some links and agencies you may find answers to for your mental health issues:

(http://www.christophers.org/nn422.html)

Mental Health Hotlines

Mental Health InfoSource
(800) 447-4474

National Mental Health Services Knowledge Exchange Network
(800) 789-CMHS

National Alliance for the Mentally Ill
(800) 421-4211

National Mental Health Association
(800) 799-0208

National Institute of Mental Health
(800) 421-4211

National Mental Health Association
(800) 969-6642

National Mental Heath Consumers Self-Help Clearinghouse
(800) 553-4539

National Clearinghouse on Family Support and and Children's Mental Health
(800) 628-1696


They are free, so you don't have to waste anymore money! :)

On a side note, Bluefind is looking great!


(http://www.christophers.org/nn422.html)

[WilliamC]

You know what is pathetic? You waste your time and money on trying to deface another human being and their success.

Maybe you are seeing things? Maybe you should check those URL's you pasted out then. :)

Because I do not see anywhere above I have tried doing that. I see that I presented some facts, and an assumption. I surely do not see me spending any money at all.

However, John certainly qualifies for the above statement you made in both regards :)

[NRLMedia]

Maybe you are seeing things? Maybe you should check those URL's you pasted out then. :)

Because I do not see anywhere above I have tried doing that. I see that I presented some facts, and an assumption. I surely do not see me spending any money at all.

However, John certainly qualifies for the above statement you made in both regards :)

First and foremost, you do waste money by hosting those hate sites, whether you host them on your server or not. There is no free lunch.

Secondly,

"Time is money"
Benjamin Franklin

And you waste a lot of time trying to bash John and his success..

Wasted Time = No Money

[WilliamC]

First and foremost, you do waste money by hosting those hate sites, whether you host them on your server or not. There is no free lunch.

In order for them to be hate sites, they would need to say something that was untrue in order to make a good person look bad would they not?

To my knowledge, I have not seen anything on them that was not factually correct.

As for them costing much of anything to host them, they dont.

As for bashing John, I posted some info on bluefind in a relevant topic. If you scroll back a page or 2, you may notice I did not start the bashing and that I was active in the discussion in this thread long before it started. :)

[minstrel]

Scanning WilliamC's posts, I'm reminded of that video of Schwarzenegger as The Terminator scanning Axl Rose and concluding, "Waste of ammo". :rolleyes:

[WilliamC]

Scanning WilliamC's posts, I'm reminded of that video of Schwarzenegger as The Terminator scanning Axl Rose and concluding, "Waste of ammo". :rolleyes;

Yes, I suppose thats why you have been proven wrong in your attempt at a real flame, and now have to resort to nonsense posts.

Why does this not surprise me at all?

Ahh thats right, because you are supposed to be a learned psychologist and should be intelligent. :)

[JohnScott]

William, your reputation speaks for itself. Go troll elsehwhere.

[minstrel]

I suppose thats why you have been proven wrong
:confused:

Where did you prove me wrong again, Willie? :rolleyes:

you are supposed to be a learned psychologist and should be intelligent
Guilty as charged, on both counts :o

[WilliamC]

Guilty as charged, on both counts :o

Really? Funny. Maybe it is YOU that should be reading the psych forums instead of me then. Interesting stuff. :)

More lame attempts at bashing, Johnny? Come on, you can do much better than that. What is with that chick in Michigan anyways?

[JohnScott]

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif << -- Right hand side by your name there.

No, you must have misread my post, I said troll elsewhere. It means, like, someplace else. ;)

[minstrel]

Yeah. Willie tried to red rep me yesterday. Apparently he hasn't figured out that you have to have a positive rep balance to do that. Thanks for the blue, Willie :D

[WilliamC]

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif << -- Right hand side by your name there.

Oh, the little image. Wow, like anyone who matters thinks that means a damn thing. I really thought you were a tad smarter than that. Live and learn, I suppose. You should listen in to WMR, you might hear a very wild interview soon :)

Menstrual, As far as I know, you only need positive points to give someone green. You got what you deserved. Nothing. :)

John, you didn't answer my question above :)

[minstrel]

I see you CAN learn, Willie. You spelled "menstrual" correctly this time. And it's SUCH a hilarious joke too, isn't it? A little adolescent and not at all original, but hilarious... :rolleyes:

Your work here is done, Willie. You can go away now.

[WilliamC]

I figured it was good enough at least being more intelligent than anything you have posted lately. :)

and it does so fit....

[NRLMedia]

I figured it was good enough at least being more intelligent than anything you have posted lately. :)

and it does so fit....

Does the "C" in your name stand for Coward, it seems to fit...

[WilliamC]

Does the "C" in your name stand for Coward, it seems to fit...

No that would be if I was not answering any flames and/or running away. Quite the opposite, it is John who does not seem to want to answer things.

Are you trying to help him or hurt him anyway? :)

[NRLMedia]

I don't appreciate when people are envious and jealous.

Posting assumptions and half ass facts about another person to "try" to ruin their image is a terrible way to go about your life. Why do it?

You lose a lot of time, hating people. ~Marian Anderson

I don't know either of y'all personally, but I know for sure you can be directing this negative energy elsewhere into something positive. (And not to hate sites, blanksucks.com is a hate site, regardless if you say it contains "facts")

[WilliamC]

I don't appreciate when people are envious and jealous.

Posting assumptions and half ass facts about another person to "try" to ruin their image is a terrible way to go about your life. Why do it?

Envious and jealous? Of John? Haha now THAT is funny.

The man could not even get a PR stunt like his contest exposure until Greg and Todd, and a few others because of them stepped into the game.

I only post facts, and assumption based on fact, not pure fiction, unlike others :)

One good turn deserves another. I did not start this dogfight, but I will be damned if I will not be here to end it :)

[NRLMedia]

Go back and reread your posts WilliamC, the hate is driven by something, and it sure isn't respect or love.

If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance.
~Orville Wright

By trying to expose John's "flaws", you are showing your true side that isn't pretty. Keep that in mind.

[WilliamC]

Go back and reread your posts WilliamC, the hate is driven by something, and it sure isn't respect or love.

By trying to expose John's "flaws", you are showing your true side that isn't pretty. Keep that in mind.

No, actually it is giving an eye for an eye. Except in my case, what I post are almost always facts. Re-read the "I didn't start this dogfight part..."

[NRLMedia]

Except in my case, what I post are almost always facts.

"Almost Always" is the key phrase.

I just think both of you need to redirect your anger elsewhere, that's all. Be the "bigger" man, if that's possible. :)

[minstrel]

Just go away, Willie. You're dragging out your own humiliation here and even for someone who despises you as much as I do it's painful to watch.

[WilliamC]

and even for someone who despises you as much as I do it's painful to watch.

That I can believe. I mean hell, here you are trying to make people think you are somebody when you can't even do it on the forums of your chosen profession, and here come people who actually market for a living making money at it. That has to be painful to you mate I agree.

Damn all of us who actually do this for a living, and actually perform test after test, most publicly, to make it so all you can read the outcome on forums and post as if you had anything to do with finding any of it out or were some sort of expert. Damn us for making you, who have never actually done anything but regurgitate things you read elsewhere look bad.

It really must be painful to you I admit.

[minstrel]

Give it up, Willie, "mate".

The only person you're making look bad here is you. Do yourself a favor and go away.

[WilliamC]

Glad you didn't try disputing any of those "facts".

But I must say, I really wish you had kind of.

[minstrel]

You have a very strange definition of facts. Now go home, wherever the hell that is. You're boring me.

[WilliamC]

Really? Who are some of your seo clients? What tests have you performed *ever* as an actual case study in public?

If the answer is none to each, they are facts, would you not say?

Even if you could answer one, that would still make the other a fact.

So come on, enlighten us all.

Prove I have a strange definition of facts Menstrual. :)

[Mel]

hmmmm...... I see that Bluefind has its homepage PR back, and I see that the robots.txt file does not exclude any of the regular directory pages, but none of the internal pages seem to have any PR. Maybe in one or two updates?

IMO I would wait a bit before spending money on this once penalized directory.

OK JS says he now owns Bluefind again now that the homepage has PR back, but the fact remains that the domain is registered to Ms. Tae Tanaka in Hiroshima Japan.

[Colleen]

Well, if any of you have a blog you can submit it for free to Bluefind, no harm there, you can read more in John's blog entry - http://www.internet-marketing-blog.com/2006/04/12/bluefind/

[JohnScott]

OK JS says he now owns Bluefind.

Where did I say I own it? I said we own it, as in V7 Inc, which is a part of Asahi Camera, owned by the Tanaka's.

Oh, perfect... the WilliamC - MelC tag team is back... :rolleyes:

Can PhilC and JanethC be far behind? :eek:

What a total joke you people are.

Good call, Mistrel. :)

[WilliamC]

So Johnny: you still have not answered my question. We still have another shoe that needs dropped badly. :)
Oh, tag teaming would mean one of us asked the other to be in this thread. That did not happen, but I realize that you think everyone acts that way because you have to so often. So I don't blame you there. :)

Menstrual: So typical to run away when the fire gets too hot. Come now and answer the questions already. At least John doesn't run and hide.

NRLMedia: Now Menstrual has shown us what a coward actually is.

(of course his ego won't allow him to let this go unanswered and be proven wrong)

Isn't ego a wonderful thing, so predictable :)

[JohnScott]

Menstrual

You do know you sound like a two year old when you say that?

So Johnny: you still have not answered my question.

You haven't answered mine either, troll.

[WilliamC]

You do know you sound like a two year old when you say that?

Maybe so Johnny, it just truly does fit him so well. It can't be helped I suppose.

You haven't answered mine either, troll.

Hmm? Which would that be?

You don't actually need to answer mine. I honestly didn't expect you to lay claim to that one publicly yet. However, by not answering, you told me already. It will be interesting to see how you answer it later.

Oh, and in case you have not seen him yet http://myjonathan.com

Once you start something rolling down a hill john, it often keeps going of it's own accord.

[JohnScott]

Johnny

Why does that sound like you're seething with envy?

It will be interesting to see how you answer it later.

I doubt I'll spend much time answering your questions. You just waste my time. You and your empty threats.

[WilliamC]

Why does that sound like you're seething with envy?

wow, looks like I scored a nerve :)


I doubt I'll spend much time answering your questions. You just waste my time. You and your empty threats.

Somehow I doubt it will be me asking later. What threat Johnny? I know you have not forgotten MI. Somehow, I dont think anyone could.

[JohnScott]

What threat Johnny?

Your threat to sue. For two years now you've been talking. Put your money where your mouth is and come after me.

[WilliamC]

Your threat to sue. For two years now you've been talking. Put your money where your mouth is and come after me.

Oh that. That is already in Roberts hands, fear not Johnny.

[Brian H.]

Oh that. That is already in Roberts hands, fear not Johnny.


Don't you mean "Robbie" ? :D

[WilliamC]

Don't you mean "Robbie" ? :D

Nah, I actually respect Robert. No bullcrap, and professional all the way.

[Brian H.]

Nah, I actually respect Robert. No bullcrap, and professional all the way.

So you call yourself Willie? :)

[WilliamC]

So you call yourself Willie? :)

I dont, but some do. :)

It never bothered me like it does some people obviously :p

John: So, bluefind was sold and then re-aquired isn't that what you said?

Just trying to make sure I have my facts in order :)

[Brian H.]

I dont, but some do. :)

It never bothered me like it does some people obviously :p

Yet you do it in return. :D

[NRLMedia]

Willy, William, Bill, Billy, WillieC, BillieC, Willboy, Wenstrual:

Throw in the towel, you are so far from winning this war of words, it's pathetic.

Stop to save us all the embarassment for you.

[WilliamC]

Winning it? I have already done that. Have some patience grasshopper :)

[dcristo]

This thread really should be locked. All this bullshit should be settled off the forum so legit directory solicitations can be more easily seen.

[minstrel]

Not the way many are seeing it :)

But we can end this thread here for all I care.

Bicker all you like, this war is over.

Let the loser whine later
The loser (i.e., Willie, mate) has been whining for several pages now.

Winning it? I have already done that. Have some patience grasshopper
What do you think you've won, Willie?

Just scurry back to that little rathole of a forum you usually call home and crow to your fellow rat-packers about how proudly you represented them here over the past couple of days. No doubt the lot of you can go on for pages about how clever you are. :rolleyes:

[WilliamC]

What do you think you've one, Willie?

Menstrual: Well for one, the spelling contest here which really is sad. I see you still have not been able to answer how my facts were misguided. That says enough for me for this thread with you. The silence says a lot more than you trying to cover your ass with horsecrap anyway. :)

But let's go over a few minor points. You can't answer my questions honestly without showing I am dead right about you actually doing nothing more than regurgitating the info I am others actually find by testing. And John seems to not be able to answer several things. Or just does not want them made public.

Oh, and I dont think I have "won" anything. Hard to think it when you know it. :)

No doubt the lot of you can go on for pages about how clever you are. :rolleyes:

I am so going to enjoy your shock. :)

[roadies]

Winning it? I have already done that. Have some patience grasshopper :)

You're kidding? You actually believe you won this playground fight? From a third party perspective you have a lot of egg on your face. I don't even know you but now I have a clear and ugly impression from your posts in this thread alone. I don't like to judge others, but I sure don't like a whiner.

[WilliamC]

This thread/debate? Lets see, The only whiners were the ones doing nothing but throwing useless flames that held no facts at all. That surely wasn't my posts.

That aside who the hell cares who won/lost a stupid forum fight, surely not I. I leave that to the keyboard warriors around here. :)

I just said I already won. Pick up a copy of The art of War sometime, you might learn :)

[roadies]

That aside who the hell cares who won/lost a stupid forum fight, surely not I. I leave that to the keyboard warriors around here. :)

I think you do care. You haven't left yet.

I just said I already won. Pick up a copy of The art of War sometime, you might learn :)

Sounds good. Enjoy soaking in victory. :cool:
p.s. don't bother replying to this. I won't be back, I have business to attend to.